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Post by skyhawkdon on Oct 8, 2009 18:52:26 GMT 12
Jim Rankin ...I should say hi to all my internet stalkers. Please say hi to Jim from Don Simms
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Post by matariki on Oct 8, 2009 18:53:51 GMT 12
Will do next time I phone home
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Post by beagle on Oct 8, 2009 18:55:42 GMT 12
what happened after 2001 with regards the A4 stores. i take it parts that can be used on other a/c were put into the general pool of parts aval but parts particular to the A4, they were............. I no thing emegency parachutes, NES12, MBEU etc were 10 years from date of manufacture Initially all of the A-4 and Macchi spares and test equipment were quarantined and kept together as part of the sale package, even those that were common with other RNZAF aircraft like the radios, IFF, TACAN, Oxy regulator were off limits to 3/5/6/40 Sqns. I'm not sure if this is still the case. so there should be a few containers of stuff sitting at Woodbourne somewhere then.
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Post by shorty on Oct 8, 2009 18:57:35 GMT 12
I'll put money on the whole deal falling over again.
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Post by beagle on Oct 8, 2009 19:01:16 GMT 12
by the time they get them all airworthy and over to the states, TAS would have lost what contract they have....
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Post by skyhawkdon on Oct 8, 2009 19:02:36 GMT 12
Question. Did they ever fix the CFG's-constantly failing generators. I used to NDT the circuit board mounts and they were cracking. I believe the generators had a 20Hr MTBF rate. When we did the KAHU upgrade we lost our nuclear capability. I liked going through the weapons prep manuals seeing how to prep the nuclear weapons. We also lost the search light, with KAHU. The pilots were happy with that. I won't tell you what were in the first two frames of the film when we fitted the cameras. No the CFG was and still is a dog. Whoever buys the Skyhawks will have to find a new generator. There were only 14 serviceable CFGs all up in 2004 and I bet half of them won't work now. We got the MTBF average up to 200hrs in the end, but it took a lot of hard work to get them there and some individual units still had about a 5hr MTBF! Fatigue cracking from vibration was a real problem. The generator and Converter frames broke up completely after about 1000hrs. Same with the generator bearings. My last job in the Air Force was to come up with a solution to the vibration problem. We had ESR design a vibration mount that went on the front of the engine. In ground tests it looked promising but we never went any further with it after Helen did the dirty on us in May 2001. The CFG will be totally unsupportable now, like most of the Avionics. He he... I know what you are talking about with the first few frames on the minipan... a hairy and blurry shot of the moon!
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Post by skyhawkdon on Oct 8, 2009 19:04:20 GMT 12
Initially all of the A-4 and Macchi spares and test equipment were quarantined and kept together as part of the sale package, even those that were common with other RNZAF aircraft like the radios, IFF, TACAN, Oxy regulator were off limits to 3/5/6/40 Sqns. I'm not sure if this is still the case. so there should be a few containers of stuff sitting at Woodbourne somewhere then. It was all in a warehouse in Palmerston North last I heard. Nothing was kept on Base any more.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Oct 8, 2009 19:05:14 GMT 12
I'll put money on the whole deal falling over again. My money's with yours Shorty!
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Post by Barnsey on Oct 8, 2009 19:09:08 GMT 12
My prediction as well.
Just been doing a bit of googling (again) on Tactical Air Services - and it reveals veeeery little about a company that's about to stump up $155 mil, except that they appear to have an office in a strip mall in Mesa.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Oct 8, 2009 19:13:31 GMT 12
by the time they get them all airworthy and over to the states, TAS would have lost what contract they have.... Me and a whole lot of other people would be really interested to know just what contracts they have lined up... at the moment they are nothing more than a paper company. Try Google'ing Tactical Air Services and Larry "Hoss" Pearson for information. There isn't a lot of info out there. In comparison try Google'ing the opposition: ATSI (Advanced Training Systems International) atsifightertraining.com/ ATAC (Airbourne Tactical Advantage Company) www.atacusa.com/ They seem to have all the military contracts...
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Post by chewy on Oct 8, 2009 19:15:03 GMT 12
Hey i work with Boo Boo. He used to work for TAS before he came back to NZ. If they are reading this thread they won't want to buy the A4's any more.
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Post by beagle on Oct 8, 2009 19:17:05 GMT 12
sitting in the sun at Woodbourne would have done no good for those rubber tyres as well, as they were pretty much exposed to all weathers. Woul most of the avionice have been removed prior to moving outside including the radar or was it sitting there as if on the flight line
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Post by skyhawkdon on Oct 8, 2009 20:20:02 GMT 12
Hey i work with Boo Boo. He used to work for TAS before he came back to NZ. Blair worked for ATSI, not TAS. They are completely different companies. If they are reading this thread they won't want to buy the A4's any more. If they read all the Skyhawk saga threads here they might actually learn something! I suspect when they actually do a proper due dilligence on the aircraft they will either pull out of the whole deal or try to renegotate the asking price down.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Oct 8, 2009 20:22:45 GMT 12
sitting in the sun at Woodbourne would have done no good for those rubber tyres as well, as they were pretty much exposed to all weathers. Woul most of the avionice have been removed prior to moving outside including the radar or was it sitting there as if on the flight line Everything was left fitted, including the parachutes and SEQ... until the rain got in and they removed all the parachutes to stop them going mouldy!
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Post by beagle on Oct 8, 2009 20:28:01 GMT 12
I wonder what the parts that are normally going around or up and down on a regular basis holding up. engines were inhibited I take ?? Fuel drained Hydraulic fluid drained
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Post by skyhawkdon on Oct 8, 2009 20:49:03 GMT 12
engines were inhibited I take ?? Yes they are now. They were running them every 12 months for the first few years. The wings will have drained themselves over the last 8 years! The fuse bags should still have fuel in them otherwise the rubber will perish and crack. No, but I bet a lot has drained out on its own over the last 8 years!
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Post by 30sqnatc on Oct 8, 2009 20:55:22 GMT 12
I just heard the interview clip of the Minister admitting it will take a 'few' $ to get them airworthy but not to long. Stand by for a bit of blame shifting spin
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Post by obiwan27 on Oct 8, 2009 20:58:58 GMT 12
Interesting in light of this week's announcement that on this evening's episode of 'Jetstream' on the History Channel that they were flying their air defence missions as part of their flight training. The flight commander stated that their primary mission was air defence. Now I know the situation between Canada and NZ is rather different but as a taxpayer for the past 28 years I've been happy to pay my taxes for (until 2001) a Strike Wing as part of our Armed Forces capability which I'm sure would include air defence. Such a crying shame that thanks to the decision of the head Cave Troll all of the infrastructure and expertise in having a fully capable air defence capability went down the toilet.
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Post by skyhawkdon on Oct 8, 2009 21:07:50 GMT 12
I just heard the interview clip of the Minister admitting it will take a 'few' $ to get them airworthy but not to long. Stand by for a bit of blame shifting spin I've seen the Air Force report (written for the incoming Gov't) on how much they estimate it will cost to get the Skyhawks going again and how long it will take... $18M/2 years and they admitted they wouldn't be able to regenerate all the aircraft (BTW I thought the dollars were pretty optimistic). Hasn't the Minister seen this report? Who's he going to blame? Not the Air Force or Safe Air I hope! Probably the previous Gov't for not maintaining them properly!
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Post by corokid66 on Oct 8, 2009 23:24:57 GMT 12
I also heard Dr Mapps interview on National Radio. He is under the impression that the “NZ$155 million” deal will go ahead. It is also his impression that the 17 A-4’s and 17 Macchi’s will be sold.
Other than regeneration issues covered there must be a problem over the purported heads of agreement price set in 2005. NZ$155 million is currently around the US$100 million dollar range as the Kiwi is very strong against the USD. Chances are that it will stay high in the near future. The currency shift upwards would have made it the Sept 2005 “deal” more unattractive I would think. The other issue is the far tighter financing conditions within the global finance market. I would think that unless the ‘buyer’ has the upfront money or an extensive locked in contractual arrangement to supply “tactical air services” to some very stable entity (e.g a country) then the chances of getting a substantial loan is not favourable. The company alluded to in the interview ‘TAS’ was (still) located at Mesa Arizona but not at the airport and has six employees including Hoss’s goodwife Janet and has an annual revenue of $447000 from what I do not know. But, they seem to be no longer based at Mesa-Gateway Airport. It’s been 5 years since the split with John McBride at ATSI.
So how on earth can a tiny company with a turnover of just under half a million will get a bank to stump up over $100 million during this financial meltdown makes me very suspect.
Though, wouldn’t it be priceless if Dr Mapp had say ten to twelve of the A-4’s rejuvenated to tip top flyable standard and old Hoss announced he was a no show.
And I do think when it has all washed up and after some golf at Kauri Cliffs, a bit of a backseat blat in a Macchi for old times sake, and some back country heli-fishing for fat rainbows all on the MoD credit card, Hoss will say .... Nah...!!
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