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Post by 30sqnatc on Nov 13, 2009 17:40:40 GMT 12
Friday, 13 November 2009, 1:34 pm Press Release: New Zealand Government Hon Dr Wayne Mapp Minister of Defence 13 November 2009 Media Statement Army LAVs off to Afghanistan Three of the Army’s Light Armoured Vehicles (NZLAVs) and their crews are to be deployed to Afghanistan, Defence Minister Wayne Mapp announced today. “The LAVs are being deployed by the Defence Force to support SAS operations and will be there as long as they are needed,” Dr Mapp said. They will provide increased protected mobility for our personnel, particularly from Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs). These are one of the greatest threats to coalition forces in Afghanistan. “Our people in Afghanistan are doing a difficult job in a dangerous environment. The Government is committed to giving them the tools they need to do that job and do it well,” he said. ends www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0911/S00161.htm |
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Post by beagle on Nov 13, 2009 18:13:09 GMT 12
was part of the upgrade on the Herks an inflight refuelling probe
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Post by obiwan27 on Nov 13, 2009 20:17:34 GMT 12
I didn't think the LAVs would fit in our Herks and we would be reliant on C-17 support from our Allies ie. Aus or the US to ship them anywhere......
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Post by ErrolC on Nov 13, 2009 20:32:44 GMT 12
From memory, they have to take the turret off the LAV for the Herc to have any sort of useful range, as we got the gold-plated (read heavy, doesn't float) version.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Nov 13, 2009 21:14:49 GMT 12
I didn't think the LAVs would fit in our Herks and we would be reliant on C-17 support from our Allies ie. Aus or the US to ship them anywhere...... Heck how long is that rumour going to hang around  It does fit in a C-130. Take off the antenna and top Machine Gun, push 'Down' on the suspension controls and drive in verrrrrrry slowly. Next stop Sydney  |
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Post by sqwark2k on Nov 14, 2009 7:40:38 GMT 12
Yeah, SYDNEY, BRISBANE, DARWIN, DENPASAR, SINGAPORE, HONG KONG...... how many legs/days are required for a Kiwi Herc to get to Afghanistan lifting a single LAV (assuming nil tech faults... yeah right)
I assume an Aussie C17 would lift all three at once and hop it in two legs in a day or two if not direct?
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Post by phil82 on Nov 14, 2009 7:42:24 GMT 12
I didn't think the LAVs would fit in our Herks and we would be reliant on C-17 support from our Allies ie. Aus or the US to ship them anywhere...... Let me settle this argument for you gentlemen! I still have my sources, and this one is impeccable! The Herc, CAN, carry an LAV, and it CAN carry it to Australia, but the weight of tha LAV has to be reduced by removal of various bits! The dicussion, however, is now academic, because the NZ Government has chartered a B747 Freighter to take them! |
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Post by 30sqnatc on Nov 14, 2009 9:33:05 GMT 12
In the rush to be first with 'breaking news' please have a thought for operational security as peoples lives are at stake. Discussion of the how and when ARE NOT appropiate on this website  |
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Post by phil82 on Nov 14, 2009 10:02:28 GMT 12
In the rush to be first with 'breaking news' please have a thought for operational security as peoples lives are at stake. Discussion of the how and when ARE NOT appropiate on this website Not sure what you're on about, but if it is the mode of delivery then Operational Security clearly doesn't come into it as the mode of transport has been published in the media and it's not 'breaking news'. Just read your PM, and you're incorrect. The fact of the ability of a C130 to carry an LAV was published in the media some time ago after trials at Ohakea. It is common and public knowledge, and is entirely appropriate to discuss in this forum when the detail has already been published. Quote: Dominion Post Saturday 14th November " LAVs for SAS Troops" "The Government is paying $700,000 to charter a Boeing 747 aircraft to fly three light armoured vehicles to Afghanistan to provide support for the recently deployed SAS troops. Defence Minister Wayne Mapp said it will be the first deployment of the 19 tonne vehicles since the army got them in 2003." |
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Post by 30sqnatc on Nov 14, 2009 11:29:29 GMT 12
I apologise, I was not aware that a decision had been made to make public the charter of the aircraft. Must admit I'm very surprised as making it public has not made NZDFs job any easier to maintain security during the deployment?? Talk about tying one hand behind your back.
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Post by corsair67 on Nov 14, 2009 11:49:47 GMT 12
I find it very interesting that the NZ media are so well informed about the movements of SAS personnel and equipment, yet if the PM or any other member of the government was on their way over there for a visit to the troops, I bet there'd be not a word mentioned anywhere about it! |
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Post by phil82 on Nov 14, 2009 13:30:49 GMT 12
I find it very interesting that the NZ media are so well informed about the movements of SAS personnel and equipment, yet if the PM or any other member of the government was on their way over there for a visit to the troops, I bet there'd be not a word mentioned anywhere about it! Is the media informed? I doubt it; they speculate as much as they like, but all they really know is that the NZ SAS is in Afghanistan. You wouldn't have to be a genius to figure that out. |
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Post by beagle on Nov 14, 2009 15:54:57 GMT 12
In the rush to be first with 'breaking news' please have a thought for operational security as peoples lives are at stake. Discussion of the how and when ARE NOT appropiate on this website Not sure what you're on about, but if it is the mode of delivery then Operational Security clearly doesn't come into it as the mode of transport has been published in the media and it's not 'breaking news'. Just read your PM, and you're incorrect. The fact of the ability of a C130 to carry an LAV was published in the media some time ago after trials at Ohakea. It is common and public knowledge, and is entirely appropriate to discuss in this forum when the detail has already been published. Quote: Dominion Post Saturday 14th November " LAVs for SAS Troops" "The Government is paying $700,000 to charter a Boeing 747 aircraft to fly three light armoured vehicles to Afghanistan to provide support for the recently deployed SAS troops. Defence Minister Wayne Mapp said it will be the first deployment of the 19 tonne vehicles since the army got them in 2003." $700,000.00 to charter a 747 freighter. Who at defence HQ authorised that. Surely there is too many zero's in that number or am I out of touch with regards chartering a/c these days. The Aussies must have been busy as surely they would be doing pretty regular runs over there with their C-17s and actually while in Singapore Big John should have asked Mr Obama himself if we could borrow one of his for a few days. |
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Post by skyhawkdon on Nov 14, 2009 18:51:26 GMT 12
There are a couple of USAF C-17s based at Chch International doing Antarctic flights at the moment.
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Post by obiwan27 on Nov 14, 2009 19:28:56 GMT 12
I didn't think the LAVs would fit in our Herks and we would be reliant on C-17 support from our Allies ie. Aus or the US to ship them anywhere...... I now stand (actually sit) corrected. Thank you gents!! Yes that's what I was thinking of, the C-17's are here in ChCh for the Antarctic program, hmmmm how ridiculous some much money is being blown on charteringa 747 freighter Jeez and yet we can't afford/don't need an air combat capability..... |
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Post by yogi on Nov 14, 2009 21:42:11 GMT 12
Regarding the LAV into herc thing. I have a friend who is a crew commander he said they have to strip prety much everything off them and it takes quiiiite a while. So prob best bet is to simply chuck im in a 747, However if they arent actually disembarking in an unprotected area (which i'm SURE they are not) whats the prob with the herk? And like obiwan said we could put that 700 k into the bring back the acf fund  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 15, 2009 20:21:53 GMT 12
Having had this discussion brought to my attention, I'd like to add a reminder that this is an operation currently in progress so there should be no posting of information or even any speculation about the deployment date and route etc. please. The Armed Forces would certainly not appreciate operational information of a current op being publicised or speculated upon. As mentioned, this is just a friendly reminder, not a telling off to anyone. Nothing yet has been breached, but we'd hate to see loose lips sinking ships.
I have to agree that $700,000 for a charter seems extraordinary, and I'd love to hear what the airline buffs think about that price tag. has the media got it wrong? Is $650,000 of that danger money? Surely the RNZAF could have bought an old clunker 747 for that from Air New Zealand rather than allowing them to be scrapped.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Nov 15, 2009 20:47:00 GMT 12
I have to agree that $700,000 for a charter seems extraordinary, and I'd love to hear what the airline buffs think about that price tag. has the media got it wrong? Is $650,000 of that danger money? Surely the RNZAF could have bought an old clunker 747 for that from Air New Zealand rather than allowing them to be scrapped. $700,000 - now thats a round the world parlamentary study junket for two MPs, with their wives, gardeners and dog groomers for a week including taxi fares  Cheap  |
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Post by Marcus on Nov 15, 2009 22:21:50 GMT 12
Hi all
We have recently been awarded our NZ citizenship so I hope/believe I may now comment on “our” Military. Although not having served in the NZ military I did two years of active service in the old SADF. My feelings on the whole SAS/747 – LAV media saga is thus based on my previous experience.
I find it unbelievable that Ops Security can be compromised by allowing the media to publish the details of the SAS’s area of operations in Afghanistan. I fully understand the concept of freedom of speech, etc, etc… but when your troops are facing a committed and wily enemy you DO NOT give the enemy any tactical advantage no matter how insignificant it may seem.
The same can said for the 747-LAV airlift. I believe this should never have been made public. (Which official released this info to the media in any case??) Officialdom should not have been allowed to jeopardize the safety of the crew, aircraft and vehicles.
My 2 cents worth….
Marcus
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 15, 2009 22:28:42 GMT 12
Hear hear Marcus. And congrats on becoming a kiwi!!
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It does fit in a C-130. Take off the antenna and top Machine Gun, push 'Down' on the suspension controls and drive in verrrrrrry slowly. Next stop Sydney 
Cheap 
