Unknown WWII NZ fighter aces

[phasselgren]

Aug 3, 2011 4:32:05 GMT 12 johnsames said:

I am John Sames elder son of Arthur Norman Sames and my son has expressed an interest in the WWII history of his grandfather. Dad died in 1980 but his life in RNZAF and RAF were alwasty part of our lives growing up. Just linking up to see what is out there.

Hi John,
You can download six Combat Reports from DocumentsOnline at the site of National Archives Kew www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/ww2aircombat.asp
search for Sames


-17 Oct 1942, 1 page (he claimed a FW 190 together with one other pilot on this date)
-19 Dec 1942, 1 page (he claimed a FW 190 on this date)
-16 Apr and 15 Jul 1943, 6 pages (he claimed a FW 190 on the 15 Jul)
-5 May 1943, 2 pages
-29 Jun 1944, 1 page

The first five are from his service with 486 Sqn. The last is from 137 Sqn. Each costs £3.50 to download (when you order the report from 16 Apr 1943 you will also get the report from 15 Jul).

There is a short bio and a list of his claims in Those Other Eagles by Christopher Shores. He was the most top-scoring Typhoon pilot against the V-1 flying bombs with 5 destroyed besides 2 and 1 shared FW 190.

He is also mentioned in Diver! Diver! Diver!: RAF and American Fighter Pilots Battle the V-1 Assault Over South-East England, 1944-45 by Brian Cull and Bruce Lander. One of these bombs exploded when he opened fire and made much damage to his aircraft (“badly blistered and burnt”) but he made a successful landing.

Cheers,
Peter

[hippos21]

My name is David Mepham, William Alfred Hart was my Grandfather. I know very little of his life in the RNZAF as before he died he destroyed his diary! I have been lucky enough to have received his DFC medal! I am interested in finding out what I can if anyone can help.

[angelsonefive]

Flight Lieutenant W.A. Hart DFC served with 486 (NZ) Squadron flying Hawker Tempests.

He was credited with shooting down 7 V-1 flying bombs.

[errolmartyn]

Dec 3, 2011 16:01:08 GMT 12 hippos21 said:

My name is David Mepham, William Alfred Hart was my Grandfather. I know very little of his life in the RNZAF as before he died he destroyed his diary! I have been lucky enough to have received DFC medal! I am interested in finding out what I can if anyone can help.

David,

If you have not already done so you should request a free copy of the papers that survive on his service record held by Personnel Archives, New Zealand Defence Force. Details here:

www.nzdf.mil.nz/personnel-records/nzdf-archives/

Errol

[hippos21]

Thank you very much will look into it!!!

[angelsonefive]

"Hayton, Gilbert McLean "Gillie" 6 kills - Drowned aboard HMT Laconia 20 October 1942 "



The sinking of the RMS Laconia took place off the coast of West Africa on 12/9/42 while the ship was on passage from Capetown to Canada.

Various vessels ( including the U-Boat that fired the torpedoes ) from both sides went to the aid of the survivors, and I would have thought that all would have reached dry land by the 20th of the following month.

F/L Hayton DFC RAF ( born New Plymouth ) was a passenger on the Lanconia and is recorded by the CWGC as having died on 20/10/42, which would suggest he passed away from injuries after reaching safety, and yet he is commemorated on the Alamein Memorial, which implies to me that he has no known grave.

Does anyone have information regarding the cause and date of death of this NZ fighter pilot with at least 4 air victories, ( 4 EA confirmed + 2 probables + 2 damaged ) all while flying Beaufighter Mk 1F's from Malta with 1435 Flight RAF ?

[errolmartyn]

Jul 4, 2016 23:29:17 GMT 12 angelsonefive said:

"Hayton, Gilbert McLean "Gillie" 6 kills - Drowned aboard HMT Laconia 20 October 1942 "



The sinking of the RMS Laconia took place off the coast of West Africa on 12/9/42 while the ship was on passage from Capetown to Canada.

Various vessels ( including the U-Boat that fired the torpedoes ) from both sides went to the aid of the survivors, and I would have thought that all would have reached dry land by the 20th of the following month.

F/L Hayton DFC RAF ( born New Plymouth ) is recorded by the CWGC as having died on 20/10/42, which would suggest he passed away from injuries after reaching safety, and yet he is commemorated on the Alamein Memorial which  implies to me that he has no known grave.

Does anyone have information regarding the cause of death of this NZ fighter pilot with at least 4 air victories, ( 4 EA confirmed + 2 probables + 2 damaged ) all while  flying Beaufighter Mk 1F's from Malta with 1435 Flight RAF ?

As usual (!), answers can be found in my For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume One: Fates 1915-1942) :

Sat 12 Sep 1942
Atlantic Ocean
In transit from Middle East to Britain
HMT Laconia
The 19,695-ton armed liner Laconia was torpedoed at 2007 by U-156 about 500 miles south of Cape Palmas, Liberia. She was homeward bound from Suez via the Cape, carrying 2,725 crew, passengers and Italian prisoners of war. U-156 surfaced to take prisoners and, on hearing of the Italian prisoners, called in other U-boats and began a rescue. The operation was later halted by the arrival of an Ascension Island-based USAAF Mitchell bomber which proceeded to attack U-156. This action later led to German U-boat Commander-in-Chief, Grand Admiral Dönitz, issuing what became known as the ‘Laconia Order’, which decreed that the rescue of occupants of ships which had been sunk was to cease. Some 1000 survivors were later rescued by a Vichy French cruiser, while others drifted in lifeboats for many weeks before death or rescue. Among those lost at sea was a New Zealander in the Fleet Air Arm, who died on or about 1 October in a lifeboat which eventually landed in Liberia on the 10th. A New Zealander in the RAF died aboard another lifeboat, in which only four out of 51 occupants survived. His date of death is officially presumed to be 20 October, the day prior to the vessel being picked up. The airmen are commemorated on the Fleet Air Arm Memorial at Lee-on-the-Solent and the Runnymede Memorial, respectively.
(Pilot): Lt (A) Peter Thurston MEDHURST, RNVR - Age 26.
Medhurst had last served with 775 Sqn, FAA.
(Pilot): 42503 Flt Lt Gilbert McLean HAYTON, DFC, RAF - Age 25.
Hayton had last served with 89 Sqn, RAF.

And an amendment from Volume Three:

HMT Laconia – Hayton is commemorated on the Alamein Memorial, not Runnymede. One of the ship’s survivors was pilot Fg Off F S Penman, RNZAF, who had the remarkable experience of being picked up by U-156, then later abandoned by it when it came under attack by the USAAF Liberator (not Mitchell). He was next picked up by an Italian submarine and served as a PoW in Italy, and later Germany, where he assisted in preparations for the Great Escape. On 10 April 1968 he also survived the sinking in Wellington harbour during a violent storm of the passenger ferry Wahine, in which 51 lives were lost.

Errol

[angelsonefive]

Thanks Errol for the swift reply.

38 days drifting in an open boat in the tropics. Awful.

I see I missed Chinapilot's post of 27/4/11 in this thread in my reading yesterday, too.

[agalbraith]

Just as an update guys, I just had Eric Tanners daughter in at work...lovely lady. She has her dads logbooks and has offered them to me. I have told her to discuss it with her family first.

Anyway I am going to get to see it as she is bringing it into work for me to look at in about a week and a half when she collects her new glasses.

I will report back if anyone is interested

[Dave Homewood]

Fantastic Anthony! Get digital photos of the logbook from cover to cover, please.

[agalbraith]

Roger Wilco Dave, will do mate!

[isc]

Angelsonefive, wasn't 486 Desmond Scott's squadron, flying Typoons, not Tempests. isc

[Dave Homewood]

isc, No. 486 (NZ) Squadron flew Hurricanes, Typhoons and Tempests between 1941 and 1945. Des Scott was one of the Commanding Officers, yes.

[isc]

Thanks Dave, good to get sorted, went and read the Wiki page on 486sq, now I'm up to date on that. isc

[agalbraith]

FYI
Mrs Tanner called in today and dropped off her Dads logbook.

Compelling reading. I will have to digitally scan it sometime.

[skywise]

Hi I am researching a Pilot from 486 Squadron. P/O Kevin MacCarthy who flew Tempest Vs during the War He was credited with shooting down 6 V1s and earned the title of Ace though I have been told this honour was bestowed after his death in 1996. He crashed after an engine failure and was seriously injured. His Son Terry has been trying to find photos of him from his time in Service. He holds his father's log books and medals. If anyone could help with information or photos Terry would be extremely grateful.

[McFly]

May 23, 2022 11:55:00 GMT 12 skywise said:

Hi I am researching a Pilot from 486 Squadron. P/O Kevin MacCarthy who flew Tempest Vs during the War He was credited with shooting down 6 V1s and earned the title of Ace though I have been told this honour was bestowed after his death in 1996. He crashed after an engine failure and was seriously injured. His Son Terry has been trying to find photos of him from his time in Service. He holds his father's log books and medals. If anyone could help with information or photos Terry would be extremely grateful.

Hi 'Skywise', can you check the spelling you have for Kevin with his son Terry, as research seems to indicate it's 'McCarthy' rather than 'MacCarthy' and in which case provides the following photos from the Air Force Museum collection.


"Group of No. 486 Squadron 'A' Flight personnel in their dispersal room, RAF Station Tangmere. - Circa June 1943 (MUS95173).(link)
L-R: Standing; LJ Appleton, JG Wilson, K McCarthy, JR Powell, AH Smith, F Murphy, NE Preston, RH Fitzgibbon. Seated; DJ Scott, NW Faircloth. On Floor; RJ Danzey, Flight Lieutenant HN Thomas (Intelligence Officer), M Lees, JA Froggatt."




"Group of No. 486 Squadron personnel in front of Typhoon SA-F, at RAF Station, Tangmere. Circa 1944 (PR8495) (link)
L-R: On propeller; JR Cullen, F Murphy, WJ Swinton.
On wing; JR Powell, NW Faircloth, RH Fitzgibbon, RJ Dall, JA Frogatt, DG Fail, K McCarthy, Jones, NE Preston (leaning forward), LJ Appleton, RJ Danzey, CN Gall, N Parkes (armourer).
Standing; AN Sames, MO Jorgensen, Flight Lieutenant HN Thomas (Intelligence Officer), WB Tyerman, Group Captain WJ Crisham, DJ Scott, ID Waddy, AH Smith, JG Wilson, Seward, Thomson."




"Group of No. 486 Squadron members at a reunion at RNZAF Base Wigram.- 20/11/1982 (2012-405.194) (link)
L-R: Back; Steedman, Gearon, Cooke, Sweetman, Evans, Atkinson, Walker, Wilson, McDonald, Appleton, MacAlister.
Middle; O'Connor, Bill Hart, McCarthy, McCaw, Waddy, Scott, Sheddan, Smith, Eagleson, Fittall, Burgess, Warren, Hart.
Front; Ross, Miller, Brash, Parkes, Duncan."




"No. 486 Squadron members at a reunion at RNZAF Base Wigram forming the number "486". - 20/11/1982 (2012-405.195)" (link)

[davidd]

In the second to last LARGE photograph above, I think that an (unjustified) comma has sneaked into the list of names for the men in the middle row, in fact the one on extreme right.

I am presuming that this man is Warren Hart (full initials W J K Hart from memory), who happened to be aboard a Super Cub and thereby gained the honour of being the first pilot to land on my dad's brand new airstrip on Banks Peninsular in about 1959. There are only 12 men in this row, with 13 names provided. Otherwise, an excellent presentation.

[skywise]

May 24, 2022 13:06:53 GMT 12 McFly said:

May 23, 2022 11:55:00 GMT 12 skywise said:

Hi I am researching a Pilot from 486 Squadron. P/O Kevin MacCarthy who flew Tempest Vs during the War He was credited with shooting down 6 V1s and earned the title of Ace though I have been told this honour was bestowed after his death in 1996. He crashed after an engine failure and was seriously injured. His Son Terry has been trying to find photos of him from his time in Service. He holds his father's log books and medals. If anyone could help with information or photos Terry would be extremely grateful.

Hi 'Skywise', can you check the spelling you have for Kevin with his son Terry, as research seems to indicate it's 'McCarthy' rather than 'MacCarthy' and in which case provides the following photos from the Air Force Museum collection.


"Group of No. 486 Squadron 'A' Flight personnel in their dispersal room, RAF Station Tangmere. - Circa June 1943 (MUS95173).(link)
L-R: Standing; LJ Appleton, JG Wilson, K McCarthy, JR Powell, AH Smith, F Murphy, NE Preston, RH Fitzgibbon. Seated; DJ Scott, NW Faircloth. On Floor; RJ Danzey, Flight Lieutenant HN Thomas (Intelligence Officer), M Lees, JA Froggatt."




"Group of No. 486 Squadron personnel in front of Typhoon SA-F, at RAF Station, Tangmere. Circa 1944 (PR8495) (link)
L-R: On propeller; JR Cullen, F Murphy, WJ Swinton.
On wing; JR Powell, NW Faircloth, RH Fitzgibbon, RJ Dall, JA Frogatt, DG Fail, K McCarthy, Jones, NE Preston (leaning forward), LJ Appleton, RJ Danzey, CN Gall, N Parkes (armourer).
Standing; AN Sames, MO Jorgensen, Flight Lieutenant HN Thomas (Intelligence Officer), WB Tyerman, Group Captain WJ Crisham, DJ Scott, ID Waddy, AH Smith, JG Wilson, Seward, Thomson."




"Group of No. 486 Squadron members at a reunion at RNZAF Base Wigram.- 20/11/1982 (2012-405.194) (link)
L-R: Back; Steedman, Gearon, Cooke, Sweetman, Evans, Atkinson, Walker, Wilson, McDonald, Appleton, MacAlister.
Middle; O'Connor, Bill Hart, McCarthy, McCaw, Waddy, Scott, Sheddan, Smith, Eagleson, Fittall, Burgess, Warren, Hart.
Front; Ross, Miller, Brash, Parkes, Duncan."




"No. 486 Squadron members at a reunion at RNZAF Base Wigram forming the number "486". - 20/11/1982 (2012-405.195)" (link)

[skywise]

May 24, 2022 13:06:53 GMT 12 McFly said:

May 23, 2022 11:55:00 GMT 12 skywise said:

Hi I am researching a Pilot from 486 Squadron. P/O Kevin MacCarthy who flew Tempest Vs during the War He was credited with shooting down 6 V1s and earned the title of Ace though I have been told this honour was bestowed after his death in 1996. He crashed after an engine failure and was seriously injured. His Son Terry has been trying to find photos of him from his time in Service. He holds his father's log books and medals. If anyone could help with information or photos Terry would be extremely grateful.

Hi 'Skywise', can you check the spelling you have for Kevin with his son Terry, as research seems to indicate it's 'McCarthy' rather than 'MacCarthy' and in which case provides the following photos from the Air Force Museum collection.


"Group of No. 486 Squadron 'A' Flight personnel in their dispersal room, RAF Station Tangmere. - Circa June 1943 (MUS95173).(link)
L-R: Standing; LJ Appleton, JG Wilson, K McCarthy, JR Powell, AH Smith, F Murphy, NE Preston, RH Fitzgibbon. Seated; DJ Scott, NW Faircloth. On Floor; RJ Danzey, Flight Lieutenant HN Thomas (Intelligence Officer), M Lees, JA Froggatt."




"Group of No. 486 Squadron personnel in front of Typhoon SA-F, at RAF Station, Tangmere. Circa 1944 (PR8495) (link)
L-R: On propeller; JR Cullen, F Murphy, WJ Swinton.
On wing; JR Powell, NW Faircloth, RH Fitzgibbon, RJ Dall, JA Frogatt, DG Fail, K McCarthy, Jones, NE Preston (leaning forward), LJ Appleton, RJ Danzey, CN Gall, N Parkes (armourer).
Standing; AN Sames, MO Jorgensen, Flight Lieutenant HN Thomas (Intelligence Officer), WB Tyerman, Group Captain WJ Crisham, DJ Scott, ID Waddy, AH Smith, JG Wilson, Seward, Thomson."




"Group of No. 486 Squadron members at a reunion at RNZAF Base Wigram.- 20/11/1982 (2012-405.194) (link)
L-R: Back; Steedman, Gearon, Cooke, Sweetman, Evans, Atkinson, Walker, Wilson, McDonald, Appleton, MacAlister.
Middle; O'Connor, Bill Hart, McCarthy, McCaw, Waddy, Scott, Sheddan, Smith, Eagleson, Fittall, Burgess, Warren, Hart.
Front; Ross, Miller, Brash, Parkes, Duncan."




"No. 486 Squadron members at a reunion at RNZAF Base Wigram forming the number "486". - 20/11/1982 (2012-405.195)" (link)