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Post by dakman on Dec 21, 2009 19:18:46 GMT 12
I recall we had two of these aircraft on our register ASI and ASJ did asj go on to Australia?? .Is it still extant ? flyable The other example ASI after many owners was donated to the Svas in Masterton I think by a Company called Page Plating in Napier Has any one any update on the status of this aircraft is it still in storage awaiting restoration . recall it went to a group in the Paraparumu area for rebuild late seventys .Never got the chance to fly in it but was able to have a bit of a play with the non conventional controls when in it flew in to Masterton often appreciate any news
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Post by Peter Lewis on Dec 21, 2009 20:07:40 GMT 12
You are correct, two Chrislea CH.3 Super Ace Series 3 came to NZ in 1948 through the agents, Engineering Alliance Ltd. of Hastings. ZK-ASI c/n 128 went initially to T O Terry, Waipukerau and then to D G Livingstone, Takapau. Page Plating Co.Ltd., Napier took over ownership in October 1970, and R H Wellington, Rotorua owned it from 11Sep1975. It was WFU at Rotorua during 1978. He passed it on to the NZ Sport & Vintage Aviation Society of Masterton 14Jul1980 but there must have been some toing and froeing of ownership as Allan Wooller, Masterton (one of the SVAS people) is briefly registered as the owner from 21Oct1980 to 12Nov1980. It then reverted back to SVAS. It is currently logged as 'stored at Masterton' and the registration was cancelled 23Dec1992. When I visited Masterton a few years ago, an airframe skeleton was pointed out to me as being ZK-ASI at Rotokawa 25Nov1967, white with red trimZK-ASJ c/n 129 was sold by the importer to Southland AC, Gore in December 1949 for £1990. They kept it until 1953, when Alexander N Ferguson (location?) took ownership. It was damaged in a t/off incident at Harewood 30Sep53. Rebuilt, possibly by Southern Senic Air Services Ltd., Cromwell as they became the next owners. Presumably they found the aircraft unsatisfacory, as they sold it abroad to Australia where it became VH-BAE in December 1959 with Austerserve Pty.Ltd. Around this time - possibly at the rebuild stage - the c/n became 129-P-13. The next owner after Austerserv was Malcolm C Leys. According to Eddie Coates, the airframe is/was still extant, and was at the Joe Drage museum - see www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austb/VH-BAE.htmldate/place unknownTwo further registrations, ZK-ASK and ZK-ASL were alloted, but no further airframes arrived here. I understand that the control system was OK if the pilot was trained from scratch on this aircraft but was confusing if not downright dangerous for those used to more conventional systems.
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Post by dakman on Dec 21, 2009 20:28:42 GMT 12
THanks for the reply Flyernzl so the air frame is back in Masterton, shame it has not been restored to flying status again recall it still had hours on its engine . It perhaps has not got the appeal of a Tiger but would certainly have a unique fame as a rare aircraft in this part of the world and there for a great airshow addition . Understand the Svas Rearwin is also in store awaiting a future rebuild to flying statis cheers
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Post by Peter Lewis on Dec 21, 2009 20:46:41 GMT 12
Photographs added
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Post by thomarse on Dec 21, 2009 20:52:48 GMT 12
Not wanting to drift from the subject, but does anyone know Allan Wooller?
He was a very interested ag-man and a frequent AHSNZ correspondent way back in the mid-60s, and was if I recall correctly from Pahiatua. I think he may have some excellent photos from that era. I could be wrong but I seem to recall that he once owned a Bolkow?
I think the Ace's airframe is still in the SVAS Museum. With respect I would suggest that its chances of being rebuilt may have died along with the late Ted Ashwell. I remember it from living in an open-fronted T-hangar at Ypuk, 1962; in another shed alongside lived Tiger BLQ.
Here comes another nostalgia flood......
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Post by Peter Lewis on Dec 21, 2009 21:39:19 GMT 12
ZK-CJF Bölkow Bo208A-2 Junior 19Apr79 - A K Wooller & N R Skeet, Masterton sold to K C Trillo, Papakura 28Nov1984
I never met him, but yes the name did register.
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Post by thomarse on Dec 22, 2009 11:31:42 GMT 12
Thanks Peter.
Neil Skeet has passed away so I won't be asking him. A K Wooller doesn't come up on Whitepages.
Re ASI, spurred on by this thread I've visited her in the SVAS hangar this morning. The fuse is more or less complete but stripped, and is on its u/c, tucked away in a corner. Looks like it had a fair bit of work done to it, but very obviously not recently. The wings are present also, but are up on a landing out of sight. No-one present seemed to know where the engine is - might it have found its way into a DH82?
The Rearwin fuse (also stripped) sits on a landing above the Chrislea.
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Post by shamus on Dec 23, 2009 12:55:58 GMT 12
Another couple of photos of ZK-ASI and ZK-ASJ at unknown locations
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Post by dakman on Dec 23, 2009 15:44:55 GMT 12
nice photos of the two Super ace air craft Wonder if asi was in Temp Martins hangar at Hastings or maybe Arch Finchs at Rotokawa?? Re asj the scene is not familiar however am sure there is some one out there who will know cheers
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Post by thomarse on Dec 23, 2009 20:47:01 GMT 12
ASI in Temp's.
Note how she's sitting high on her u/c in this photo, as she is today in the SVAS hangar, whereas she looks like she's got a full can of wet lime aboard in the shot of her at Rotorua?
No idea about ASJ; those pines are too far away for it to be NZHS.
Where did the Tiger ARC hang out?
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Post by Peter Lewis on Dec 24, 2009 6:29:51 GMT 12
Thames, Masterton & Stratford
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Post by shorty on Dec 31, 2009 23:16:11 GMT 12
Omaka
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Toko
Sergeant
Posts: 14
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Post by Toko on Jan 2, 2010 13:52:55 GMT 12
Hi,I've just registered as a new member here although I've been viewing the forum for quite some time. The thread on the Chrislea brought back some memories! Back in 1968 when I was a memeber of the Stratford Aero Club we organised a vintage air show at Stratford. Due to bad weather etc elsewhere the only vintage aircraft that turned up was "ASI" flown by Gordon Livingstone who owned it at the time. He kindly offered me a flight in ASI which was quite entertaining. Starting off having to abort the take-off because he couldn't hold it straight. We tried again on a cross wind runway and got off ok and then I got my biggest surprise when he let me fly it. That control system certainly took some getting used to! We had a nice flight around the local area and the Gypsy engine sure sounded great. He obviously had great confidence in me because he let me land it (uneventfuly). Rudder control was by pedals set flat on the floor and hinged in the middle like a sewing machine treadle, but the rudders being out of the prop wash were just about useless anyway. I attach a picture I took at Wings over Wairarapa in March 2009 showing the stripped fuse - note fuel tanks under back seat and those control wheels are in the full up elevator position.
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Post by dakman on Jan 2, 2010 14:13:06 GMT 12
Thanks for your post Toko and your experiances in asi More details of flying these older types would great to record for history and welcome to the forums
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Post by eieio on Jan 10, 2010 19:14:35 GMT 12
It looks like we can't win! How much is the Gold Pass? Your messages arrived OK so you must have been doing something radically wrong the first time.
The Chrislea wasn't too difficult to get used to. If you had flown Tiger Moths, you had a stick coming out of the floor. Imagine it coming out of the dash in front of you - move down, you went up, move up you went down. At the end was a wheel which turned either way to give aileron control. The pilot sat as on an ordinary chair with your feet straight down into stirrups on a pivoting base the shape of a large foot. Press your left toe down for left rudder and your right toe would rise. Similarly pressing right toes would give a right turn It had disc brakes with a handbrake lever between the seats. Apply one click of brake and you could ground steer using the rudders. It was good to takeoff and land into a starboard cross wind but a brute if the wind came from the port side because of the direction the propellor spun. When I bought it from Trevor Page in Napier, it had been advertised in "Wings", and we came home from Ohakea that way after visiting Graeme who was on Skyhawks. I had a short flight with Trevor who had it on the market so that he could upgrade to an Apache. At that time I was on a Student Licence as I had left renewing my PP until the last day and had arrived at Rotorua airport in time to see Dick Joughen putting the aircraft away and no way was he going to take me for my check I got hold of Bill Pentecost who assured me he had a Chrislea rating, and another pilot who was wanting to build up hours for a commercial to fly us over in a Rotorua 172 and with Marion sitting in the back on the full petrol tank, I dualled back to Rotorua. Bill left me to my own devices and I started to build up my 5 hours, one day going on my own down to Stratford to get a permit to land there from Brian Doyle, as the opening of the thermal power station put restrictions on who could use their field. When I got back, I had a number of people criticise me for going that distance without permission!! Time came to apply for a Flight Test with CAA, and Harry Bielby (who joined the RNZAF the same day as I did) refused to test me in my own aircraft which he said was dangerous. He would test me in a 172 and then the Rotorua CFI could rate me for my Chrislea. I don't remember Peter Rushton ever getting into ASI - I am sure he just wrote in my logbook and I had it added to my licence. Some years ago I read an article by Harry Bielby where he described taking one Bill Pentecost for his annual check and was led down a line of aircraft at Rotorua to ASI and told to get in. Bill naturally passed, and they landed safely -- then around that time he had refused me my flight because the aircraft was unsafe. I am still waiting to meet Harry and talk to him about that, if he is still alive! Cheers Reg Recieved from Reg Wellimgton today, last operator of ASI,former Corsair pilot. Reg sent me photos of 1928 Avian ACM with the aforementioned Graeme in the front cockpit about 1958,aged about 4. He now captains 777 for Air NZ. First airing of the Avian photos will be at SAA fly away to Galatea next month,then I might share them..
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Post by Peter Lewis on Jan 11, 2010 20:34:22 GMT 12
I remember that Harry Bielby article - it was published in the Sport Aviation magazine. Made hilarious but possibly inaccurate reading.
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Post by chessiegolf on Sept 12, 2010 18:48:08 GMT 12
I've just spotted this thread and appreciate its quite old now, however for those interested in things Chrislea, I own one of the two Aces flying in Britain and can confirm its a benign aeroplane and not at all difficult to control - with the left hand placed at the top of the control wheel (right hand on throttle) a backwards pull, as you would a stick, will make the wheel pivot about its axis and apply the desired up elevator. The instinct that some people have is to hold the wheel in both hands, about half way down as you would a car steering wheel, and then trying to apply a down or up motion. This is not so bad with both hands on the wheel but when it comes time to hold the throttle, its then more difficult to apply elevator movement with one hand without imparting aileron movement as it take less effort to rotate the wheel than raise or lower it.
Always fly with one hand placed at the top of the wheel and all problems go away!
I can also confirm that a wind from the left will greatly increase the take off run as the left brake has to be ridden until sufficient speed has been built up to make the rudders effective, this is usually about 20mph but of course varies with the wind strength.
Once flying, the rudders are very powerful and a cross wind landing from either direction doesn't require a different technique, the rudders will keep working down to the same speed as required for take-off - once they stop working its back to the brakes.
I was in New Zealand earlier this year and took the opportunity to see the Super Ace at Masterton, sadly it looks just the same as the photo on this thread. They say they will restore it one day but with limited resources their priorities are to keep their other aircraft operational.
To my mind, despite its obvious idiosyncracies, the aircraft has quite a lot going for it - good all round vision, as tough as they come, nose wheel arrangement (quite novel in 1948), very effective flaps and the reliable Gipsy engine. It seems that British eccentricity once more proved self defeating!
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Post by woollergregory on Jan 4, 2011 23:23:47 GMT 12
Allan Wooller is my Uncle if anyone wants to Make contact with him, I have his e-mail address etc..
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Post by JW on Jan 18, 2012 16:51:53 GMT 12
Sorry to dig up an old thread. Does anybody know what the colour of ZK-ASJ was?
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dh83
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 7
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Post by dh83 on Jan 20, 2012 3:06:02 GMT 12
thought I would share this photo from my collection, ZK-ASI being loaded for shipment from the UK this is my first attempt dh83(UK) Attachments:
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