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Post by angelsonefive on Jan 26, 2023 22:36:09 GMT 12
Bingo - never thought of that one. Checked AF380 and there it is - P32823 is the engine fitted to NZ5648 on acceptance by the RNZAF. So one mystery solved thanks to David. Now, how do we confirm the correct Buno and MSN for this aircraft? "The US Navy history reads: FG-1D BuNo.88391 April 1945 - NAS Columbus May 1945 - In route to Guam June 1945 - CASU-11 aircraft pool July 1945 - VMF-323 August 1945 thru June 1946 - VMF-441 July 1946 - VMF-311 August thru October 1946 - NAS San Diego, CA November 1946 thru March 1947 - Jacksonville, FL April 1947 thru May 1948 - NAS Mineapolis stricken on October 31, 1948 Brett↓" So 88391 could never have had an RNZAF serial. I think 88391 was c/n 3205. |
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Post by camtech on Jan 27, 2023 9:15:29 GMT 12
Wow!
Maybe we have some traction in the story of Josephine at last.
Thank you for that source.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 27, 2023 9:15:31 GMT 12
It is often said that when NZ5648 was restored in the USA it was given wings from an ex-Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm Corsair, which explained the clipped wingtips and the step cutout in the wing. Does anyone know which FAA Corsair that was? Wondering if it was one of the ones the Royal Navy operated at Quonset Point, Rhode Island, where they worked up newly trained pilots into carrier squadrons? Maybe the aircraft was flown by a lot of Kiwis?
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Josephine
Jan 27, 2023 9:23:41 GMT 12
via mobile
Post by camtech on Jan 27, 2023 9:23:41 GMT 12
I believe one of the earliest owners was going to use her as a racer and clipped wings were going to be one way of producing more speed.
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chrism
Squadron Leader
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Post by chrism on Jan 27, 2023 9:53:46 GMT 12
The step cutout in the wing flap was standard for all 1D Corsairs onwards and some 1A's. Not sure exactly when it was introduced?
I've heard the wings cut for racing story from several people too. I believe the FAA removed the wingtip and replaced it with an end cap? Apparently 5648's wings have been roughly cut and then faired over?
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Post by camtech on Jan 27, 2023 13:49:01 GMT 12
Bingo - never thought of that one. Checked AF380 and there it is - P32823 is the engine fitted to NZ5648 on acceptance by the RNZAF. So one mystery solved thanks to David. Now, how do we confirm the correct Buno and MSN for this aircraft? "The US Navy history reads: FG-1D BuNo.88391 April 1945 - NAS Columbus May 1945 - In route to Guam June 1945 - CASU-11 aircraft pool July 1945 - VMF-323 August 1945 thru June 1946 - VMF-441 July 1946 - VMF-311 August thru October 1946 - NAS San Diego, CA November 1946 thru March 1947 - Jacksonville, FL April 1947 thru May 1948 - NAS Mineapolis stricken on October 31, 1948 Brett↓" So 88391 could never have had an RNZAF serial. I think 88391 was c/n 3205. Part of the problem with the two BuNo numbers is the Constructors No, with 3205 quoted for 88391 and 3305 for 92044, so easily transcribed. The question remains - how did NZ5648 finish up being quoted as BuNo88391? |
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Post by ZacYates on Jan 27, 2023 16:54:51 GMT 12
It is often said that when NZ5648 was restored in the USA it was given wings from an ex-Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm Corsair, which explained the clipped wingtips I believe one of the earliest owners was going to use her as a racer and clipped wings were going to be one way of producing more speed. Les is quite right: they are not Royal Navy wingtips, if one compares images of an RN Corsair and this one differences can be seen. The aircraft went to Jim Landry & Pat Palmer in 1973 and was to be converted to an Unlimited racer, #99 Really Gotcha!! (the pair campaigned two orange T-6s in the 1970s, #9 Gotcha! and #99 Gotcha!!, hence the number and name and the Corsair would have been similarly painted). They ended up restoring her stock and she flew again on 17/07/1982 (thanks Geoff Goodall!). "trustdecals" produced this artist's impression some time back - sensitive folk may wish to avert their eyes!  #99 Really Gotcha by trustdecals by Zac Yates, on Flickr |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 27, 2023 17:18:54 GMT 12
A pity, I was hoping for some Kiwi FAA connections since it did nothing much in the RNZAF.
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chrism
Squadron Leader
Posts: 108
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Josephine
Jan 27, 2023 20:15:53 GMT 12
via mobile
Post by chrism on Jan 27, 2023 20:15:53 GMT 12
Looks like I was wrong with my comment about the step cutout in the wing flap. It was only introduced towards the end of 1D production, although was retrofitted at times. In fact despite searching high and low I am yet to find a wartime picture of an RNZAF Corsair with the cutout step? Even Josephine itself didn't have it when tidied up during the 1960's.
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Post by Antonio on Jan 27, 2023 20:23:19 GMT 12
A pity, I was hoping for some Kiwi FAA connections since it did nothing much in the RNZAF. She survived. |
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Post by baz62 on Jan 28, 2023 15:01:02 GMT 12
The step cutout in the wing flap was standard for all 1D Corsairs onwards and some 1A's. Not sure exactly when it was introduced? I've heard the wings cut for racing story from several people too. I believe the FAA removed the wingtip and replaced it with an end cap? Apparently 5648's wings have been roughly cut and then faired over? As I understand it the wingtips are not a seperate item on Corsair wings.(Unlike wing tips on Spitfires,Harvards etc which can be unbolted) So for the FAA wing they were built that way. Whereas NZ5648 had the tips modified to clipped style, just not identical to FFA profile. |
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chrism
Squadron Leader
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Post by chrism on Jan 28, 2023 17:28:37 GMT 12
The step cutout in the wing flap was standard for all 1D Corsairs onwards and some 1A's. Not sure exactly when it was introduced? I've heard the wings cut for racing story from several people too. I believe the FAA removed the wingtip and replaced it with an end cap? Apparently 5648's wings have been roughly cut and then faired over? As I understand it the wingtips are not a seperate item on Corsair wings.(Unlike wing tips on Spitfires,Harvards etc which can be unbolted) So for the FAA wing they were built that way. Whereas NZ5648 had the tips modified to clipped style, just not identical to FFA profile. Hmm I had read that the wing tips were removed and short tips added and assumed they were derivited or unbolted but you are correct, they weren't detachable at all. The article below states that they did in fact attack the wings with a hacksaw! Always learning, cheers. FAA WINGTIPS "The second style wingtip was called the "short" wingtip. It was standardized at the factory on JT425 and subsequent Mark IIs, and on JS543 and subsequent Mark IIIs. It was also retrofitted to nearly all surviving earlier aircraft. Interestingly, one of the discussions noted above involved some joking about using a hacksaw to remove the original wingtip, but that was exactly what the factory instructions called for. The fabric (which ran all the way to the wingtip) was softened with dope thinner, cut, and peeled back so the wing spar and ribs could be cut back with a hacksaw. An Andover Kent fiberglass wingtip was then fitted into place, the fabric was brought back to the edge, trimmed, stitched, redoped, and covered with enamel camouflage paint. The newer generation of British aircraft carriers had even shorter hangar decks than the older carriers, so Corsairs with short wingtips still wouldn't fit. This led to the "short short" wingtips , which removed the earlier short tips (or any surviving USN tips) and fitted a new Andover Kent fiberglass unit. This was retrofitted to most surviving Mark IIs and Mark IIIs, but apparently not to Mark Is. All Mark IVs were delivered with the short short tips." |
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Post by camtech on Jan 29, 2023 11:57:05 GMT 12
At the end of the day, I am far more inclined to believe that Josephine was, in fact, originally BuNo 92044, c/n 3305.
As shown above, BuNo 88391 does not seem to have any links to the RNZAF. The fact that NZ5648's original engine number, P32823, has been used as a constructor's no for civil registration also points to 92044 being the correct BuNo.
I've emailed Joe Baugher for a comment, but no response as yet. Geoff Goodall, I believe, has followed the errors perpetuated in the US. Perhaps someone has used another dataplate to replace a missing? original plate.
Can anyone prove otherwise?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 29, 2023 18:57:43 GMT 12
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Post by camtech on Jan 29, 2023 19:06:28 GMT 12
Great article, Dave.
But I will still dispute the origin quoted - ie 88391.
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Post by Mustang51 on Feb 4, 2023 8:56:57 GMT 12
"Big Hog".......fond remembrances there at Stockton in California when we were testing the Ventura. It came in for fuel and we were about to undertake another test so.....we formated for a while. First time I had seen a Corsair. There was another connection as our "flight engineer" on the B-25 we rebuilt and flew from Stockton (same hangar) to Australia in 1983 had worked on the Corsair when he was based in Seattle
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 4, 2023 11:01:22 GMT 12
First time I had seen a Corsair. The first time I had ever seen a Corsair was a hot Friday afternoon, beer o'clock, in 1991 at Wigram. We'd just finished work and had arrived at the Airman's Club for a quenching beer, when one of the guys, Andy, said "There is a Corsair arriving in a few minutes." We piled out onto the road in front of the club in time to see ZK-FUI "NZ5201" come barreling in at low level and curve over the airfield just over the height of the hangars. That sound! It reverberated round the hangars and buildings. My god, we all felt like that boy in Empire of the Sun at that moment! It was just wow! I'd grown up hearing stories of Corsairs at Ardmore from my Dad and Nana who lived across the road from the station during the war. Dad truly loved the Corsair and now I saw why. The pilot that day was Keith Skilling, whom I'd seen leading the Roaring Forties the year before but at that time I knew little more about. He instantly became a hero seeing him beat up Wigram like that and creating a lasting impression on my young mind of how awesome Corsairs are. Since then I have watch him flying the Corsair display many times over the years, and I am proud to call him a good friend too. The beer tasted extra good after we retreated from that hot roadway ack into the club. That day remains right up there with the days I first saw when I first saw a Spitfire fly - Stephen Grey in TB863 at Woodbourne in 1989; a P-40 - Mark Hanna in P-40K ZK-PXL at Wanaka in 1992; and a Mossie fly - Keith and Dave at Ardmore in 2012. Indelible memories. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 4, 2023 15:51:49 GMT 12
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