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Post by 30sqnatc on Jan 23, 2010 8:03:32 GMT 12
If i jumped out a highrise building, would anyone follow?  Man that is so childish. "oh well the other guys are doing it" pfft. Get a friggen grip. Accept responsibilty for your actions. Hey were you reading over my shoulder when I typed my response to their reply  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 25, 2010 12:27:45 GMT 12
I agree that the media has been completely irresponsible over this matter, particularly TV3's news report in which they were pouring scorn on the Herald for their actions whilst doing exactly the same thing themselves.
However, I really blame the past Government under Goff's regime of Minister of Defence when they decided it was fine to begin exposing the secrets of the NZ SAS in the media - the TV programme and the exposure of Willy Apiata's deeds to the public whilst he was still serving. The media has been allowed a certain amount of leeway in exposing the SAS and now they feel justified in taking it a step further. The door should never have been opened a crack for them to push against if the NZDF wanted to retain total secrecy and security.
In saying that, I do think it gives us, the public, an opportunity to acknowledge and appreciate the fine and important work that the NZ SAS does every day to ensure our everyday freedoms are retained. They are very special people who constantly put themselves into harms way for us, and I have the utmost respect for them. I hope the indescretion of the newspapers and broadcast media does not lead to any of them being harmed.
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Post by obiwan27 on Jan 25, 2010 13:54:44 GMT 12
To cap it all off there was a protest by the 'Anti-bases' movement in the weekend at Waihopai along with the media coverage of the protest (all 30 or so of them) there were the usual culprits; John Minto, Keith Locke and Murray Horton - local Christchurch guy who has been writing letters to 'The Press' ad naseum for the past 30-40 years. Minto had the audacity to claim that Willie Apiata is not a 'real' hero but the 3 men who vanadlised one of the domes are in fact 'real' heroes. Hmm vandals who destroy taxpayer funded government property are heroes. Our top shelf military personnel who risk life and limb overseas to assist in eliminating a worldwide extremist threat and in training local indigenous people in developing their own armed service are not. Especially someone who rescued a fellow soldier under fire!! I know how I want my tax dollars spent and it isn't on repairing government property/assets vandalised by a vocal minority. Tax money spent on a well equipped and trained defence force is money well spent. How not in touch with reality are these anti-base nutbars???
Dave you are right, the media have been reckless but again it seems a bit surreal if photos with captions are allowed to be published on US websites but not on our own websites or in newspapers. It is timely for the whole issue of media coverage of our Armed Forces (especially those in theatre) to be reviewed. I don't believe for one second that the photos were published as part of a 'human interest' story, instead it was simply to sell more newspapers or encouarge more 'hits' to media/news websites.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Jan 25, 2010 15:37:04 GMT 12
However, I really blame the past Government under Goff's regime of Minister of Defence when they decided it was fine to begin exposing the secrets of the NZ SAS in the media - the TV programme and the exposure of Willy Apiata's deeds to the public whilst he was still serving. The media has been allowed a certain amount of leeway in exposing the SAS and now they feel justified in taking it a step further. The door should never have been opened a crack for them to push against if the NZDF wanted to retain total secrecy and security. So what would you have done? Not awarded the Victoria Cross to Willie Apiata? Because that would have been the only way to keep things out of the media. The news media would have dug and dug and dug and dug until they eventually discovered who it was who had been awarded the Victoria Cross, then things would have ended up in the news media on the news media's terms. At least they way they did things, it was managed by the Defence Department. Anyway, I thought we weren't supposed to talk politics in this group? Or is that rule only applied selectively? I seem to recall a political thread being posted about Sue Bradford with a number of replies also posted, but the moment someone posted an opposing view, the “no politics” rule got dragged out and the thread was locked!  |
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Post by obiwan27 on Jan 25, 2010 16:36:01 GMT 12
However, I really blame the past Government under Goff's regime of Minister of Defence when they decided it was fine to begin exposing the secrets of the NZ SAS in the media - the TV programme and the exposure of Willy Apiata's deeds to the public whilst he was still serving. The media has been allowed a certain amount of leeway in exposing the SAS and now they feel justified in taking it a step further. The door should never have been opened a crack for them to push against if the NZDF wanted to retain total secrecy and security. So what would you have done? Not awarded the Victoria Cross to Willie Apiata? Because that would have been the only way to keep things out of the media. The news media would have dug and dug and dug and dug until they eventually discovered who it was who had been awarded the Victoria Cross, then things would have ended up in the news media on the news media's terms. At least they way they did things, it was managed by the Defence Department. Anyway, I thought we weren't supposed to talk politics in this group? Or is that rule only applied selectively? I seem to recall a political thread being posted about Sue Bradford with a number of replies also posted, but the moment someone posted an opposing view, the “no politics” rule got dragged out and the thread was locked! I think the 'no politics' rule is spelt out clearly for the 'General' thread/board and that's where the Bradford item got started. In hindsight, perhaps it should never have been started? The comments above are in the context of this thread topic which I think is the main thing. As I think Dave acknowledges after the comments you have quoted the cat is well and truly out of the bag so it can be good PR for defence if handled properly. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 26, 2010 9:35:53 GMT 12
So what would you have done? Not awarded the Victoria Cross to Willie Apiata? Because that would have been the only way to keep things out of the media. They could have easily not disclosed anything about the award till after he was totally finished operationally and either retired or withdrawn to a desk or training role. That is the standard procedure apparently. Between the actual deed and the announcement there was apparently months, if not over a year elapsed. No-one cared about that time elapse so why not let more time elapse till he is no longer a front line operative? At the time the media said there was another SAS member who did just as awesome a deed who was also in line for a high honour, perhaps another VC, but the NZDF were not going to release any further details till he retired. That's all that needed to be done for Apiata. From what I've heard this is the standard practice, medals are held off till retirement or withdrawal from the operational arena - I'm bewildered as to why in this case the system was changed, and suspect it was a PR campaign to attempt to boost their flagging morale and recruitment in the NZ Army. Make a public hero or celebrity of him and hope the public sees the NZDF in a new light. I don't think so. If the SAS wanted their secret to be secure, it would have been. No tinpot journalist would have been able to dig anything up - where would they have looked for such info?? Who's talking politics? I'm talking about NZDF and Ministry of Defence policy which has obviously been altered during the tenure of the previous Government, altering the media's view to "we now have open access to the previouisly top secret SAS". My mention of Goff was simply to highlight that this snowball began rolling about two years ago and now they seem to be regretting it. Nothing to do with the party politics as you're implying. |
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Post by phil82 on Jan 26, 2010 16:47:24 GMT 12
www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10622392Government to reveal details of SAS deployments 4:58 PM Tuesday Jan 26, 2010 "It is becoming our only combative presence. It represents us just as much as politicians and diplomats do, and just as we ought to be told what politicians and diplomats are doing in our name we should be told, within reasonable bounds of operational security, what our forces are doing. Where the SAS is concerned we are told almost nothing. Twice now we have learned a little of their activities only through a casual mention in foreign media, which appear to face no such secrecy from their own national forces, even special forces." This is journalistic jingoism at its very worst. Editorial writers all over the country having been on a feeding frenzy of their own egos over the last week, and they're all spouting the same nonsense of "need to know". They don't need to know anything of the sort where the lives of servicemen are concerned, and I wonder just what they will say in the editorial that follows the death of an Apiata because his enemies now know he's a national hero [and] they have access to the internet. The problem with these journalists is that they always have a glib response when things go wrong. In this case they have failed completely to understand the difference between the publicity of Wllie as the VC winner, when it was stated that his SAS career was over, and the fact of his return to active duty at his own request. There is a huge difference, and it has been ignored. Free speech comes with responsibility, and they don't appreciate that. They won't recall, for example, a few years ago a number of British SAS were identified by rebels in Aden and their heads displayed on poles; no doubt after sadistric torture. The Media in NZ have acted totally irresponsibly in my view! |
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Post by obiwan27 on Jan 26, 2010 17:00:22 GMT 12
The latest item on the matter clearly shows how far from the truth the reporting on the matter has been. The photographer concerned seems to have talked it up, to put it mildly. www.stuff.co.nz/national/3263639/New-openness-on-SAS-Afghanistan-operationsIn future don't believe a word of what is printed by NZ media let alone overseas media until it is officially confirmed. I think most forum members would be of this mind but the general NZ public I think not. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 28, 2010 11:04:47 GMT 12
Well said Colin, I totally agree.
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Post by phil82 on Jan 28, 2010 12:36:28 GMT 12
Well said Colin, I totally agree. Following the sanctimonious crap contained in the editorial in the Sunday Star-Times [21st Jan], I sent a letter! " Sir: Your editorial on secrecy surrounding the SAS and your “journalistic rights”, is blatant hypocrisy. You clearly consider “free speech” not as a right, but as a continuous obligation which, in the case of Cpl Apiata, may well result in his being targeted and killed, undoubtedly with some others with him. A few years ago some British SAS members captured by rebels in Aden, now Yemen, were beheaded and the heads stuck on poles. Should a repeat of that ghastly event occur involving any NZSAS members as a result of your “freedom of the press” I wonder what your editorial will say? It is utterly ludicrous to compare the publicity surrounding the award of his VC, when he was clearly not expected to return to operations, and in fact said so in one interview, with the situation he now finds himself in where he’s back on active service at his own request. That fact of changed circumstance should have been obvious, even to a journalist. You may well find being lectured by Defence as infuriating, but their interest is with their personnel: whereas as yours is false indignation expressed in the hope that someone might actually take a journalist seriously!" You might have to wait until next Sunday to see if it gets published! |
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Post by obiwan27 on Jan 28, 2010 13:08:47 GMT 12
Nice one. I agree with the sentiment you have expressed phil82. Do please keep us informed about the response (if any). On a lighter note, sparked by the whole business 'Willie Apiata' is now twittering to the masses. A response to reporter Ali Ikram who said "I won't consider the NZ SAS to be truly open to public scrutiny until Willie Apiata is on Twitter". Someone with a sense of humour has taken him up on it. www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/3266148/willie-apiata-is-on-TwitterNow I don't for one second think what happened is a laughing matter however I see it as a pisstake upon the NZ media who are somewhat too precious at times and take themselves too seriously. |
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Jan 28, 2010 14:30:37 GMT 12
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Jan 28, 2010 14:31:17 GMT 12
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Jan 28, 2010 14:31:43 GMT 12
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Post by phil82 on Jan 30, 2010 0:51:11 GMT 12
Nice one. I agree with the sentiment you have expressed phil82. Do please keep us informed about the response (if any). Now I don't for one second think what happened is a laughing matter however I see it as a pisstake upon the NZ media who are somewhat too precious at times and take themselves too seriously. The response has been...no response other than this! Recipient address: letters@startimes.co.nz Reason: unable to deliver this message after 131 hours Note: The e-mail address is not shown as being incorrect, but "undeliverable message" is the reason given. So much for the Star-Times "freedom of speech"! |
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Post by caromeg on Feb 28, 2010 21:40:45 GMT 12
Its real easy to solve this. Happened in the US Start publically posting the address, phone numbers of journalists who miss behave. Post details everywhere - in flyers,
Adds etc... people soon get the message. Bit of putting yourself in someone elses shoes might not be such a bad thing for all round.
whats a big laugh in the Army is that hardly anyone recognised him! What most peple saw was the new DPM material and no helmet. He could have been one of many hairy chums over there at the moment....
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