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Post by Dave Homewood on May 10, 2010 12:29:23 GMT 12
That is amazing to think that both pilots survived that crash of ZK-CZY. It looks like a bad smash.
Why did the RNZAF not purchase a larger fleet of Airtourers rather than wait till the Airtrainer came along? Did they know at the time of purchasing the T.6's that the CT/4 was in the works? Or was theiur intention to buy the T.6's for the fleet replacement originally but they found them unsatisfactory for the task? Or something?
What is the T.6 like for aerobatics? Is it much more gutless than the CT/4B?
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Post by classicman on May 10, 2010 14:43:04 GMT 12
Very similar to aerobat in Dave as I recall. The Airtourer was about 300kg lighter than the CT4 which made up for its lesser horsepower (the Airtourer had far fewer avionics etc).
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 10, 2010 16:35:58 GMT 12
Thanks for the reply classicman
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Post by eieio on May 10, 2010 20:03:54 GMT 12
An interesting record of airtourers,its a pity that so many pilots were not able to successfully complete a flight.
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Post by Peter Lewis on May 11, 2010 23:16:10 GMT 12
Thanks for ZK-DAB Shamus. Looks like test flight paintwork.
Dusting off my Airtourer T6 Aerobatic Notes, its interesting to look at the weight limitations.
Empty weight is 1413 lbs Aerobatic weight is 1800 lbs (MAUW 1900 lbs). At 1800 lbs, aerobatic limits are +6G to -3G Above 1800 lbs, aerobatics are restricted to a Va of 123 kts and +4G to -2G limits.
We used to fly with 10 gallons of fuel when 2-up for aeros to meet the weight limitations. At a calculated fuel burn of 9 gal/hr this did not make for a long flight.
The big plus with the T6 over other Airtourers was the constant speed prop. After setting it at 2500rpm/25" you could concentrate on other things, one less control to worry about.
Apart from fuel endurance, the other drawbacks of the T6 were a 5 second limitation on inverted flight and the spin. With a Vne of 203 kts (no flap) and a steep nose-down attitude in the spin, you reached that in two turns. Aim was to dive out after 1 1/2 turns.
The recommended entry speeds were: Loop - 130 kts Aileron roll - 100 kts Barrel roll - 115 kts Stall turn - 140 kts So there was a bit of diving to get up to entry speed for the loops and stall turns. This cost height, so a substantial part of your flight time was spent in a full-throttle climb.
I've not done aerobatics in anything else, so I don't know how this compares with say the Airtrainer.
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Post by Peter Lewis on May 15, 2010 13:15:38 GMT 12
Continuing with the listing: AESL Airtourer 150 c/n A544 went directly to South Africa c/n 545 was built as a AESL Airtourer 115 and was registered as ZK-DAC to the Taxi Flying Syndicate, Ardmore 10Nov1969. This ownership was not taken up, and after its first flight on 26th November that aircraft remained at Hamilton for a short time with ownership being transferred to AESL 27Feb1970. The Marlborough AC, Blenheim took ownership of ZK-DAC 27Apr1970 but the aircraft arrived at Omaka somewhat earlier, 27Dec1969. The Rotorua AC became owners from 26Nov1973. ZK-DAC was at Matamata in January 1976 (being used by, I think, the Walsh School) when it was involved in a mid-air collision with the Seneca ZK-DCH operated by CAA on the 20th. Pilot of ZK-DAC was Robert McNair, and the incident was well publicised at the time. Unlike the Seneca, ZK-DAC was rebuilt and continued in use at Rotorua until sold to V Rogers, Murapara 30Nov1981. It was converted to a 150hp model either during that restoration or at a later stage. Further ownership changes were to Golden Bay FC, Takaka 30Jan1985, G E Frampton & J N Holloway, Auckland 18Nov1987, D P Brown & D A Parker, Whangarei 30Jun1988, L L Parker, Whangarei 10Jul1989, T W & C E Watson, Whangarei 30Aug1991, Eagle Flight Training Ltd., Ardmore 1Dec2005 and finally to T W & C E Watson Family Trust, Whangarei 23Jul2007. At Matamata 2002Airtourer T6/24 c/n A546 was scheduled to be the second Airtourer for the RNZAF and was allotted NZ1750. This was changed to NZ1761 prior to delivery. It took its first flight in May 1970, was bought on charge as NZ1761 22May1970 and was delivered to Wigram on the 23rd. NZ1761 followed a similar service career path as NZ1760, being declared surplus and sold by tender to Messrs Rawson, Yates & Wellington, Te Awamutu in 1993 and became ZK-LDG under their ownership as from 23March1993. This syndicate retained ownership for many years until a transfer to M D Shaw, Wanganui took place 10Apr2009. NZ1761 at West Melton airfieldZK-LDG at Pauanui January 1994Airtourer 115 c/n 547 took its first flight on 16Jan70 and became ZK-DBA with AESL on the 22nd. It was delivered to Timaru 20Mar1970, and ownership was registered to the South Canterbury AC on the 19th May. They traded ZK-DBA to Airwork (NZ) Ltd., Christchurch 2Aug1974, and the next owner was J N Byers, Christchurch as from 19Jan1975. Further changes were to A D & C M Allott, Christchurch (later Masterton) 7Feb1978, T L & S K Absolum, Rissington, HB 10Sep1981, A M Hinch, Levin 24Jul1984 and the final owner Topflite Aviation Ltd., Christchurch on 15Sep1978. The registration of ZK-DBA was cancelled as 'Destroyed' on 11Nov1998. I cannot find any information on this incident, does anyone know? At Ardmore 16Apr1977Airtourer Super 150 c/n A548 went directly to Australia, A549 and A550 directly to the UK Victa Airtourer 100 ZK-CGQ c/n 71 of the New Plymouth AC overturned on landing New Plymouth 30Nov69. The wreck was taken to AESL and rebuilt there as a AESL Airtourer Super 150 with the new c/n of A551. This was registered to AESL 25Feb70 as ZK-DBD, first flown on the 28th February and registered to the Canterbury AC, Harewood on the same day. This was apparently a hire arrangement, which ran through to July 1970 when ZK-DBD shifted to the Waikato AC. Next owners were Act Aviation, Te Awamutu 19Aug1981, Thompson Motors (Te Awamutu) Ltd., Te Awamutu 27Oct1981, A C Thomson, Te Awamutu 3Oct1986, O A Thomson, Te Awamutu 6Nov1992 and finally M C & A C Thomson, Te Awamutu from 4Apr2001. With the Waikato Aero Club, Hamilton, 22Sep1973
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Post by shamus on May 16, 2010 16:15:04 GMT 12
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Post by shamus on May 16, 2010 16:27:59 GMT 12
Two shots of ZK-DAC in a different clour scheme, both at Hamilton.
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Post by Bruce on May 16, 2010 18:55:34 GMT 12
I would suggest those DAC pictures are at Tauranga rather than Hamilton - the location of the slightly higher ground in the background and the position of the airfield beside the large wooden hangar match Tauranga better.
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Post by shamus on May 16, 2010 21:38:35 GMT 12
You could be right Bruce. The photos were taken probably 20 years ago, and hard to remember that far back. Does anyone recognise the building in the first one?
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Post by woody99 on May 16, 2010 22:03:21 GMT 12
Yes that's definitely Tauranga for DAC. It's parked at the north-eastern corner of the now demolished hangar. The second picture is looking toward the threshold of RWY25. I remember DAC at the Rotorua Aero Club during that time.
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Post by shamus on May 17, 2010 9:47:15 GMT 12
Thanks for that woody99, will alter my records.
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Post by shamus on May 17, 2010 9:52:46 GMT 12
An accident that happened to DAC in Auckland. I can't help feeling that the reporter has got it wrong when he says it left Kare Kare (near Piha). I think he means Kerikeri in Northland which actually has a aerodrome, where as Kare Kare does not.
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Post by woody99 on May 17, 2010 10:47:30 GMT 12
I'm fairly sure it was CLG, but I recall the day an Airtourer crashed on takeoff from Kawerau many years ago. We had departed first and were heading for an airstrip at Waimana, south of Whakatane, and CLG was to follow. We received word on the radio that the Airtourer had crashed so returned. Thankfully all were OK, however there was nothing left of the aircraft. It had stalled and burnt on impact in the rail yards next to the airstrip. All THREE were ok. To this day, I'm amazed anyone survived.
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Post by shamus on May 17, 2010 12:56:43 GMT 12
All 'THREE', the Airtourer is only a two-seater ?
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Post by shamus on May 17, 2010 13:02:56 GMT 12
Woody99, regarding, CLG, see the Victa thread, flyernz's comment, crashed Kawerau, 1979.
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Post by woody99 on May 17, 2010 16:18:58 GMT 12
Yep THREE. Child in back behind seats...
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Post by woody99 on May 17, 2010 16:23:44 GMT 12
Woody99, regarding, CLG, see the Victa thread, flyernz's comment, crashed Kawerau, 1979. Thanks - didn't actually realise it was a Victa. The other one I remember was CWA which was in Whakatane for a period mid-70's
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Post by Peter Lewis on May 17, 2010 19:08:45 GMT 12
3POB in two seat aircraft = no insurance cover.
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Post by Peter Lewis on May 22, 2010 23:08:56 GMT 12
AESL Airtourer T6/24 c/n A552 was allocated to the RNZAF, initially to become NZ1752 but this was changed to NZ1762 prior to delivery. First flight of NZ1762 was at Hamilton on 9Jun1970 and the aircraft was delivered to Wigram on the 17th. This Airtourer had a similar service history to the others, and was eventually sold by tender in early 1993 to the Bay of Islands AC based at Kerikeri with whom it became ZK-JBZ as from 19Mar1993. Ownership was transferred to the RNZAF Auckland Aviation Sports Club Inc., Whenuapai on 29Aug1995 and it flew with them until it was damaged in a landing overrun at the Reeve strip on Great Barrier Island 8Jan99. CAA synopsis: Before the flight, the pilot checked the conditions at the aerodrome with the local operator. On arrival overhead, he elected to land on runway 35, with a slight upslope and tailwind. His final approach speed was 80 knots, which resulted in a touchdown some 100 metres past the intended landing point. The pilot decided not to initiate a go-around once on the ground so applied heavy braking, which was insufficient to prevent the aircraft running off the end of the runway and down a bank.The damaged aircraft was sold to Colin P Grounsell who took it to Thames when he became Instructor at the Thames aero club. The Airtourer was rebuilt at Thames, with the ZK-JBZ registration being cancelled on 29Jan2004 and a new registration of ZK-CPG/2 being issued on the same day to C P Grounsell, Paeroa. Astral Investments Ltd., Auckland became owners from 2Nov2006 and ZK-CPG is currently flying from the Warbirds base at Ardmore. NZ1762 at Wigram 9Sep1978and a few years laterZK-JBZ at North Shore airfield 1994ZK-CPG at Ardmore 19May2007c/n 553 was the final Airtourer T6/24 for the RNZAF, initially to become NZ1753 but reserialled NZ1763 prior to delivery to Wigram on 17/18Jun1970, one day after its first flight at Hamilton. After an uneventful service life, it also was sold by tender early in 1993. The successful bidder was Australian-based, so the Airtourer was registered to Dennis Thompson International Ltd. as ZK-JAX on 19Mar1993 and taken to Ardmore to be prepared for its trans-Tasman flight. ZK-JAX left NZ 27Mar1993 for Australia where it became VH-MUM with J Blake, Birchgrove, NSW as from 21May1993. The aircraft came up for sale a year later, and was bought by B White, Wellington, NZ in March 1994. The Australian registration was cancelled on 15April1994 and the Airtourer was flown back across the Tasman to Wellington where it became ZK-WBW with the Wellington Flying Centre Ltd. as from 15April1994. Further transfers took place, with the Nelson AC taking over on 3Feb1996, the Wellington AC on 4Jun1996, Ardmore Flying School Ltd. from 11Dec1998. ZK-WBW was finally operated by the RNZAF Base Auckland Aviation Sports Club Inc., Auckland as a replacement for ZK-JBZ from 9Feb1999. Difficulties with sourcing of parts led to a decision to sell the aircraft during 2006, and the buyer was Ian Close, Port Melbourne, V with ZK-WBW making its third oceanic crossing via Norfolk Island to becoming VH-VVZ as from 22Dec1996. NZ1763 at OhakeaZK-JAX at Ardmore March 1993, ready for delivery to AustraliaZK-WBW at Whenuapai 21Jun2006Airtourer c/n A554 was a Super 150 version, and this became ZK-DBE with Aero Engine Services Ltd., Hamilton as from 17Mar1970. First flight was at Hamilton 7Apr1970 and it may have been used as a demonstrator as the ownership change to the Pegasus School of Aviation Ltd., Tauranga did not take place until 24Jun1974. Ownership reverted to the manufacturers (who by then had become NZ Aerospace Industries Ltd.) as from 23Dec1975 and ZK-DBE departed NZ on 2Apr1976 for Australia where it became VH-PCC. The NZ registration was cancelled on the 9th April ZK-DBE at Hamilton early 1976, being prepared for Australian deliveryAESL Airtourer T6/24 c/n A555 was exported directly to the UK. c/n 556 was a rebuild of Victa Airtourer 100 c/n ZK-CGN as a AESL Airtourer T2. This aircraft had originally gone to the Wellington AC, Rongotai in 1964. I have it logged as then arriving as AESL on 29Jul1968 for conversion to a AESL T1, presumably retaining the c/n 50. It then went to the Gisborne AC on 3Dec1968 until it crashed at Opotiki in September 1969. It was then restored by AESL as a T2 model with 115hp and the new c/n 556 as from 22Jun70 and went back to Gisborne. Final transfer was retuning to Wellington with the Wellington Districts AC from 12Jan1973 until it crashed at Otaki airfield 18Oct1975. Pilot R. P. Chester. Registration was cancelled 17Mar1976. The damaged aircraft was taken to New Plymouth and stored there with Haywood prior to sale to J R Mungall & D J Subritzky, Auckland. At a later date they sold the unrepaired aircraft to an owner in Victoria, Australia for an intended rebuild. Can anyone in the know confirm the exact sequence of rebuilds of ZK-CGN please. (This Airtourer appears to have been unique in being the only one to retain its original registration all through it's rebuild sequence). ZK-CGN rescued from New Plymouth (J Mungall photo)
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