|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 18, 2011 10:14:16 GMT 12
I think I knew that but had forgotten. Sounds familiar.
|
|
|
|
Post by pjw4118 on Sept 2, 2011 10:17:36 GMT 12
Here's two from the NZBCA Collection I found of interest. Luckily they had the names on the back. The photographer is unknown.  RNZAF New Plymouth mess Friday October 13. L to R Punch Marusich, Art Douglas, Tom Davis, Rell Gordan, Kuhn, Me, Heff, Cliff Perrett, Chuck Ryan, Sid Pratt Drunky Merrin, Doug Hotleway, Roy Stockwell, Johnny Hall, Frank MacPherson, Nooki With it is another labelled Sergeants mess NP dated Friday 13 February. So maybe it was a Black Friday bash. The other is of NZ Airmen POW Stalag 8B Landsdorf 1944  Back Row - Powell, Thom, Gibbs, Otter, Craddock, Forbes *, Pickford, Giddings Centre Row - Hardie, Bevan, Pitts, Emmerson *, Atkin, Devine, Nicholson, Johnson *, Witla Front - OByrne, Hyde, Grimsby, MacKenzie, Mossman, Voice, Scobie, J MacKenzie * Wings |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 2, 2011 10:51:20 GMT 12
Fantastic photos. The first one must be instructors and looking at the number of half-brevets then not from the EFTS but instead from the School of General Reconnaissance and Navigation I'd think. The year was 1944, looking at the 1944 calendar which had Oct 13th on a Friday, so that makes sense for the School of GR & N.
|
|
|
|
Post by errolmartyn on Sept 2, 2011 16:38:47 GMT 12
The other is of NZ Airmen POW Stalag 8B Landsdorf 1944 Back Row - Powell, Thom, Gibbs, Otter, Craddock, Forbes *, Pickford, Giddings Centre Row - Hardie, Bevan, Pitts, Emmerson *, Atkin, Devine, Nicholson, Johnson *, Witla Front - OByrne, Hyde, Grimsby, MacKenzie, Mossman, Voice, Scobie, J MacKenzie * Wings An interesting photo. Here is some expansion on the names of those who appear therein. Back Row NZ403290 Wt Off Carlyle Arthur Powell (AB), NZ412369 Wt Off Raymond Herbert Thom (WOp/AG), NZ404535 Flt Lt William Edmund Gibbes [not Gibbs] (Nav/AB), NZ402493 Wt Off Gordon Leonard Otter (AB), NZ403819 Wt Off Noel Stuart Craddock (AG), NZ41135 Fg Off Aynsley Stuart Forbes (P), NZ41164 Wt Off Roden Barnsdale Pickford (AG), NZ412222 Wt Off Douglas Cecil Giddings (WOp/AG) Centre Row NZ414564 Wt Off John Douglas Hardie (P), most likely NZ41565 Wt Off Leslie Sydney Bevan (AG) – otherwise – NZ44772 (but previously RAF as 959593 until 1 Jun 44) Wt Off Stephen Henry Rossfield Bevan (AG), NZ413470 Wt Off Derek Cecil Pitts (P), NZ402174 Wt Off George Emmerson (P), NZ411057 Wt Off John William Filda Atkin (AG), NZ411745 Wt Off Thomas William Devine (WOp/AG), NZ405310 Wt Off Uila Nicolson [not Nicholson] (Nav), most likely NZ413423 Wt Off Eric William Peter Johnson (P) – otherwise – RAF 43643 (later NZ2473 in 1945) Flt Lt Theodore Faire Storrier Johnson (P), NZ404559 Wt Off Gordon George Whitla [not Witla] (Nav) Front NZ405311 Wt Off William Kevin Charles O’Byrne (AB), either NZ416637 Wt Off Jack Edwin Hyde (AB) – or – NZ413420 Wt Off Galbraith Mickle Bullen Hyde (P), Grimsby – no NZer of this surname in WWII air force, NZ404550 Flt Lt Bruce Alexander McKenzie [not MacKenzie] (Nav/AB), NZ412349 Wt Off Edwin Burton Mossman (WOp/AG), NZ41708 Wt Off William James Stanley Voice (AG), NZ405327 Wt Off Denis Butler Scoble [not Scobie] (Nav/AB), NZ41596 Wt Off Norrice John MacKenzie (WOp/AG) Errol |
|
|
|
Post by pjw4118 on Sept 3, 2011 12:56:10 GMT 12
Thanks Dave and Errol for the extra details , I will add them to the file originals
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 3, 2011 16:39:50 GMT 12
I'd like to know more about the guys in the bar photo if anyone has details. I'd also be interested to see the other Friday the 13th shot if you don't mind Peter, thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by pjw4118 on Sept 5, 2011 12:19:58 GMT 12
here is the other New Plymouth shot. The caption is "Sergeants Mess Friday 13 feb" The notice is about Sundays Recuperation Picnic.  This one maybe of interest, showing NZ High Commissioner Bill Jordan with aircrew possibly at 11OTU Westcott  |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 5, 2011 12:55:55 GMT 12
Great shots. I wonder who the Sqn Ldr on the right is with the medals, he looks to be a Maori. Bill Jordan was a very popular chap with the RNZAF and FAA guys in the UK.
I like the New Plymouth shot, thanks for that.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikey51 on Oct 29, 2011 19:40:50 GMT 12
Dave, I have an original framed photo, signed on the back by the people in it, of R 33. Electrical and Wireless ?, Wigram, 1/12/42 to 27/3/43. I know some of the people went on to be Wireless and Radar Mechanics ( ? ) in 5 and 6 Squadron. Would it be of benefit to the forum for me to remove it from the frame and get it re-produced for publication here so all can see it ? There are 25 guys in the group. Cheers. Mike.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 29, 2011 23:54:57 GMT 12
Yes please Mike, that sounds quite interesting.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 30, 2011 0:05:26 GMT 12
Yes please Mike, that sounds quite interesting.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikey51 on Jan 1, 2012 19:56:07 GMT 12
First try, I havn't got a scanner and don't know much about computers either. Electrical and Wireless school, Wigram Dec 1st 42 to May 27th 43. My grandfather is in it and he went on to be a Radar/Wireless Mechanic on the Cats, 6 Squadron. Hope this works, Mike. Attachments:
|
|
bosca
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 2
|
Post by bosca on Apr 29, 2012 17:55:55 GMT 12
Here are some more group photos: This is a photo I took of a photo on the wall of wartime fighter pilot Gavin Gullery. This is his Wings Course, Harvard phase at Woodbourne.  The names above (with my added detail of full names where known) are: Back Row: B.C. Shearer (Wellington) Frank J.L. Bish (Auckland) D.J. Bourke (Pahiatua) Keith F. Rollo (Christchurch) W.G. Duncan (Christchurch) Sir Frank W. Holmes (Dunedin) Donald William Gee (Belnheim) Gavin J. Gullery (Wanganui) Third Row: W.A. Trolove (Christchurch) J.G. Whitney (Auckland) G.L. Nicholas (Temuka) B.C. Edgecombe (Waipukurau) Robert Douglas Martin Watson (Timaru) D. Tyrrell-Baxter (Nelson) Richard Alan Falconer (Wanganui) Second Row: P.G.G. Kissell (Wellington) Peter John Sherning (Hastings) H.C. Parker (Auckland) S.M. Ballantyne (Oamaru) L.H. Fraser (Dunedin) John Alexander Murray (Mosgiel) A.H. Speden (Gore) A.G. Gould (Otautau) Front Row: P.S. Thompson (Wellington) P.R. Smith (Wellington) J.K. Williams (Hokianga) B.S. McIntosh (Auckland) Leyton Permain Stephenson (Ashburton) C. Hardwick Smith (Eltham) J.H. Murray (Palmerston North) And another of Gavin's photos, from when he was in No. 20 Squadron  The rest here are from Noel Hanna's collection, starting with his Rotorua ITW course  This is when he was in No. 26 (Fighter) Squadron. he said they were only formed for a matter of weeks and Air HQ decided that as the 13th fighter squadron it might be unlucky, so they disbanded this unit and reformed as no. 22 (Fighter) Squadron with much the same personnel. The CO of both Squadrons was Squadron Leader G. A. Delves, and Noel was a Flight Commander. Noel is seen in the 26 Sqn photo seated fourth from right, and in the 22 Sqn photo below it also seated 4th from right.   This last photo is of the pilots on the Second Tour of No. 14 (Occupational) Squadron in Japan 17 April 1947 till 1948. This shot was taken at Ohakea on the 7th of March 1947.  The pilots are, back row, left to right: Dave Koln (sp?) Clarrie Berryman John Waugh Peter Frame Bill Trott Ray Mackinder George Jones Noel Hanna Cliff Miller Derek Flintoff 'Red' McNally Seated, left to right: George Washington D'Arcy Coppersmith Bill Annand Doug St. George Geoff Highet Ron Nairn |
|
bosca
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 2
|
Post by bosca on Apr 29, 2012 18:09:34 GMT 12
I am very grateful to my son for introducing me to this site and indeed to Dave for his incredible endeavours in putting all this together.
My father, Robert Douglas Martin Watson, features in both the "Wings" and No 20 Fighter Squadron Photo's.
Unfortunately he passed away in 1953 when I was only 3, so I didn't really know him.
I recently secured his War Record file, but am now wondering if anybody who visits this site might have any more information on him and his wartime experiences.
Thanks for any assistance
|
|
|
|
Post by errolmartyn on Apr 29, 2012 22:06:21 GMT 12
I am very grateful to my son for introducing me to this site and indeed to Dave for his incredible endeavours in putting all this together. My father, Robert Douglas Martin Watson, features in both the "Wings" and No 20 Fighter Squadron Photo's. Unfortunately he passed away in 1953 when I was only 3, so I didn't really know him. I recently secured his War Record file, but am now wondering if anybody who visits this site might have any more information on him and his wartime experiences. Thanks for any assistance From Colin Hanson’s By Such Deeds - Honours and Awards in the Royal New Zealand Air Force, 1923-1999: WATSON, Warrant Officer Robert Douglas Martin, mid. NZ4211895; Born Timaru, 28 Oct 1923; RNZAF 19 Sep 1942 to 13 Oct 1945; Pilot. Citation Mention in Despatches (22 Mar 1946): In recognition of gallant services rendered during the war. Served four tours in the SWPA with 20 Sqn RNZAF (Corsair). Died Timaru, 14 Dec 1953. Errol |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 29, 2012 22:14:09 GMT 12
Welcome Bosca. Gavin Gullery lives in Rotorua, he's in the white pages. He may be able to fill you in with the stories and perhaps get better copies made of those phtoo for you. I'm sure he'd enjoy hearing from you.
|
|
|
|
Post by Luther Moore on Apr 29, 2012 23:30:21 GMT 12
Credit:Bernie Nelson,   |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 30, 2012 9:21:30 GMT 12
That would have been a great event I'm sure! There are only a handful of them left neowadays.
|
|
ctayfor
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 5
|
Post by ctayfor on Aug 17, 2012 19:25:32 GMT 12
The other is of NZ Airmen POW Stalag 8B Landsdorf 1944 Back Row - Powell, Thom, Gibbs, Otter, Craddock, Forbes *, Pickford, Giddings Centre Row - Hardie, Bevan, Pitts, Emmerson *, Atkin, Devine, Nicholson, Johnson *, Witla Front - OByrne, Hyde, Grimsby, MacKenzie, Mossman, Voice, Scobie, J MacKenzie * Wings An interesting photo. Here is some expansion on the names of those who appear therein. Back Row NZ403290 Wt Off Carlyle Arthur Powell (AB), NZ412369 Wt Off Raymond Herbert Thom (WOp/AG), NZ404535 Flt Lt William Edmund Gibbes [not Gibbs] (Nav/AB), NZ402493 Wt Off Gordon Leonard Otter (AB), NZ403819 Wt Off Noel Stuart Craddock (AG), NZ41135 Fg Off Aynsley Stuart Forbes (P), NZ41164 Wt Off Roden Barnsdale Pickford (AG), NZ412222 Wt Off Douglas Cecil Giddings (WOp/AG) Centre Row NZ414564 Wt Off John Douglas Hardie (P), most likely NZ41565 Wt Off Leslie Sydney Bevan (AG) – otherwise – NZ44772 (but previously RAF as 959593 until 1 Jun 44) Wt Off Stephen Henry Rossfield Bevan (AG), NZ413470 Wt Off Derek Cecil Pitts (P), NZ402174 Wt Off George Emmerson (P), NZ411057 Wt Off John William Filda Atkin (AG), NZ411745 Wt Off Thomas William Devine (WOp/AG), NZ405310 Wt Off Uila Nicolson [not Nicholson] (Nav), most likely NZ413423 Wt Off Eric William Peter Johnson (P) – otherwise – RAF 43643 (later NZ2473 in 1945) Flt Lt Theodore Faire Storrier Johnson (P), NZ404559 Wt Off Gordon George Whitla [not Witla] (Nav) Front NZ405311 Wt Off William Kevin Charles O’Byrne (AB), either NZ416637 Wt Off Jack Edwin Hyde (AB) – or – NZ413420 Wt Off Galbraith Mickle Bullen Hyde (P), Grimsby – no NZer of this surname in WWII air force, NZ404550 Flt Lt Bruce Alexander McKenzie [not MacKenzie] (Nav/AB), NZ412349 Wt Off Edwin Burton Mossman (WOp/AG), NZ41708 Wt Off William James Stanley Voice (AG), NZ405327 Wt Off Denis Butler Scoble [not Scobie] (Nav/AB), NZ41596 Wt Off Norrice John MacKenzie (WOp/AG) Errol Thank you for posting that picture, guys. Aynsley Forbes was my Dad and I have never seen a photo of him from his POW days. Very much appreciate seeing it. |
|
|
|
Post by davidd on Aug 20, 2012 18:49:45 GMT 12
First time I have read through this thread, some great stuff here too! I also thought I may be able to provide a few words of advice on identification by explaining a few of the apparent problems in interpreting uniforms, etc from the 1930 onwards. Incidentally, in case anybody wonders what "OA" means in the following, it is the air force equivalent of "OR" (Other Ranks, in this case airmen up to and including F/Sgts.)
The RNZAF always had the blue-grey and the khaki uniforms right through from the early 1930s onwards. Prior to 1928 airmen had no such thing as a proper uniform at all, but shortly prior to the arrival of Kingsford Smith from out of the sky in September 1928, all regular airmen (there were less than 20 airmen in the old NZPAF at this time) were measured up and then provided with a tailored blue uniform, and an SD cap (the latter with an RAF OA badge - the RNZAF OA badge did not exist until about 1937), although these were only worn on special ocasions initially, with overalls being the normal wear. The KD (Khaki Drill) OA uniform must have been introduced in the early 1930s; this was based on the contemporary RAF KD uniform (which was only worn outside the UK by RAF personnel) but the NZ version was worn during our summers, as we never served outside NZ apart from the brief foray to Samoa in 1930. The OA KD jacket was normally worn buttoned at the throat, but Sergeants and F/Sgts only were permitted to wear it open at the throat, with a shirt and tie. The only form of cap for airmen was the peaked SD cap (known as "cheese cutters" because of the sharp edge of the rim, formed by a thin wire insert) were possibly imported from the UK as were the RAF badges mentioned earlier, until locally made RNZAF OA badges forced them out of circulation. However the OA SD caps were all withdrawn in December 1940, and the F/S cap (RAF 1936 pattern) became the only permitted wear year round for all non-commissioned personnel (except warrant officers) for the duration. It is though that the F/S cap was introduced by the RNZAF during 1940, although no hard information on this has been located as yet.
The first blue grey officer SD uniforms also appeared in about 1928, with a certain F/L L M Isitt returning from duty in the UK (at the Air Ministry and on specialist courses) wearing such a uniform. Prior to this of course, all NZPAF and NZAF officers wore their old SD uniforms from WW1 days (usually khaki, officer pattern, with Sam Brown belt, etc.) The barathea blue material used to make up these officer uniforms was imported from the UK at first, but by very early in WW2, locally made barathea was available, and importation of British-made cloth ceased. The brass buttons worn with the officers uniform were not RNZAF ones (which were not intoduced until about 1938) but were the Army's "Universal" button, with the four stars of the Southern Cross as centre-piece. No doubt airmen wore the same type of button until these were ousted by the first RNZAF buttons in 1938 (imported from UK and later also from Canada and Australia).
All the KD material for airmen's and also the officers' "tropical" uniforms was imported from India. When RNZAF personnel were first sent overseas to the Pacific Islands (October 1940, Unit 20 to Fiji), supplies of "Solah Topees" ("Pith helmets") from India were issued to these men. These were the genuine "Puka" jobs, with flat top, thick rolled brim and the zinc ventilator at the top (like an air conditioned tower block!) Similar gear was issued to all the personnel shipped off to Singapore from late 1940 till the fall of Singapore. The uncomfortable early "closed at the throat" KD jackets for airmen (known officially as "frocks") were replaced from about 1941 onwards by the more comfortable open-neck style, this including conversions of the earlier type. Surprisingly the NZ government had also imported a large amount of Japanese KD material in the years immediately prior to WW2, and this was used to make up much of the khaki uniform items in NZ for the RNZAF (and probably also the Army) - this proved to be a bit of an embarrassment at a later date.
The New Zealand "Identification" badge was introduced in August 1940, for all officers and airmen departing for overseas - when such men returned to New Zealand, they were to remove these badges from their uniforms (which naturally left an appropriate darker mark on the uniform, the sun having faded everything else.) By 1943/44, with returned NZ Army personnel being permitted to retain their "New Zealand" shoulder badges, the Government was eventually forced to allow air force personnel to continue wearing these badges on return to New Zealand, although many felt this was the beginning of the end (the rot was setting in ...) The fact was that the Army men treated these i/d badges as a "badge of honour" when on leave in NZ, whereas air force men (on return from Pacific service) and returning on home leave on the same trains, were shunned by the public ("You're not a returned man! Trying to get a free cup of tea!! SHAME!!!") However the privilege of wearing the i/d badges on service in NZ was withdrawn permanently in 1947, and was only permitted when personnel were serving overseas with other Commnwealth forces or other Allies. It was not till about 1969 that the ROYAL NEW ZEALAND AIR FORCE shoulder titles for permanent wear on all uniforms were introduced.
In New Zealand, the white "flash" worn in the F/S (Field Service) caps of trainee airmen was not intoduced until December 1940 - these were worn by trainee aircrew from time of arrival at ITW until graduation at the schools. Of course all these wartime-only trainees were classified as LACs for the duration of their training. It is also worth pointing out that the minimum rank or classification for qualified aircrew (other than pilot) in the wartime RNZAF was AC2 up till about June 1942, when we finally adopted the rank chosen by the RAF two years earlier, that of Sergeant! Wartime NCO promotion was fairly rapid after this - 6 months to F/Sgt, 18 to W/O, This was simialr to officers, 6 months from P/O to F/O, then 18 to F/L. All officer promotion after this was on merit only, although not by examination; in fact most promotions above F/L were in acting capacity, although this was usually paid.
On service in the South Pacific, the RNZAF initially relied largely on locally made uniforms and flying clothing, with Indian-made Solah Topees, but we gradually began to be issued with more American gear, including cotton underwear, some American flying suits, helmets and other flying gear, and lightweight American boots which were excellent for all situations, including flying and working on aircraft. However RNZAF aircrew clung onto certain of the RAF flying items, including Mae Wests, parachute harness with RAF quick releases, and goggles (usually for reasons of safety or superior comfort), although others adopted the American Army or Navy equivalents. Also much American non-formal working clothing items were adopted, such as the heavy working overalls made from olive green herring bone twill (HBT), but used by RNZAF as flying clothing by Hudson crews, and designated as "flying suit, heavy" - we were desparate! Other more casual items were two types of headwar, a floppy brimmed hat and a soft peaked cap, both made from the same HBT material - most aircrew also seemed to wear these hats at some time, as did many ground staff. Not so popular were the American-made sun helmets, sometimes mistakenly called pith helmets, although they were cheap copies made from some form of papier mache - some made in USA, others in Canada to US Navy contracts.
Later on, in 1944/45, American military KD uniform items (made from very fine US drill), especially trousers and shirts began to be adopted by officers, particularly aircrew, and some of the latter even took to wearing American wind breaker jackets and khaki web waistbelts to the extent that Air Department grudgingly extended permission for these to be worn by "appropriate personnel" (meaning those officers already in possession and wearing actually them on duty, mostly members of transport crews.)
Postwar the RAF introduced many changes in the blue-grey SD uniform and greatcoat, but the RNZAF continued with the wartime (in fact the prewar 1936 pattern!) until well into the 1960s, although the KD uniform was replaced by the mustard yellow type known as gaberdine in the early 1950s, and mess dress was reintroduced in about 1947/48 (it had been largely abandoned for the duration of the war, in line with the NZ Army and the RAF, etc.)
I think I will leave it at that for the moment, as I do not have my notes on postwar changes and styles readily to hand. If anyone thinks these notes are of any use or of good general interest, I may be stirred enough to scratch out a few more thoughts and facts from my rapidly rusting memory banks. However I hope that what is included above will explain a few of the uniform and badge mysteries encountered in trying to identify times and places.
David D
|
|
