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Post by mit on Sept 1, 2021 8:47:25 GMT 12
Interesting registration for NZ1805 "ZKF" when in service its radio callsign prior to 1970 was ZMZKD and NZ1806 was ZMZKF Hi tbf2504, I'm impressed you have made the connection as to why I registered the 05 as ZKF, I don't know of anyone else who has on their own (and ZK-MIT was taken after all...) I am however intrigued that you think I have got it wrong! Do you have supporting evidence that 05 was ZKD and 06 was ZKF? We have done (and continue to do) extensive research into 05's history and firmly believe 05 was F (and 06 was G) I have prove of this in the aircraft's documents, so would love to see your evidence to the contrary. Cheers Mit |
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Post by tbf2504 on Sept 1, 2021 10:00:56 GMT 12
I was a telegraphist/telecommunications operator at Wigram 1965 - 1970 and a communications officer in charge of the comms flight at Wigram 1976 - 1980. I spent many hours on radio circuits with
Devons and was the last operator (As a commissioned officer) to work morse with the Devons in 1980. All Devons used their W/T callsign when out of VHF range and prior to 1970 when self-evident
callsigns for aircraft were introduced used their ZMZxx allocated callsigns for VHF. From the official allocations in NZCD30(6) RNZAF Communications Orders Manual: Devons at Wigram during that time were allocated callsigns as follows:
NZ1803 ZMZKA, NZ1804 ZMZKD, (ZMZKC was not allocated to a specific aircraft as this was the "collective" callsign when communicating with all Devons monitoring a specific frequency). Therefore
NZ1805 was ZMZKD, NZ1806 ZMZKG, NZ1807 ZMZKH, the signals devons NZ1826 ZMZKP, NZ1827 ZMZKQ, NZ1828 ZMZKS.
There is a second reason why NZ1805/ZMZKD is embedded in my memory as I was the operator on the circuit at Wigram when the aircraft was struck by lightning off the coast of Dunedin 1966?
The ensuring investigations on why the captain elected to fly back to Wigram rather than divert to Dunedin was interesting; as was the long period it took to refurbish the aircraft which I recall
when looking at it shortly after arriving back at Wigram the nose looked as though someone had fired a shotgun into it with many little holes. All the cows tails had gone, the elevators had been
partly crushed and the lightning strike had travelled up the trailing aerial and blown the transmitter tuning unit to pieces.
Hope that clears up your query
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Post by mit on Sept 1, 2021 11:16:20 GMT 12
NZ1803 ZMZKA, NZ1804 ZMZKD, (ZMZKC was not allocated to a specific aircraft as this was the "collective" callsign when communicating with all Devons monitoring a specific frequency). Therefore NZ1805 was ZMZKD, NZ1806 ZMZKG, NZ1807 ZMZKH, the signals devons NZ1826 ZMZKP, NZ1827 ZMZKQ, NZ1828 ZMZKS. No it doesn't, how can NZ1804 and NZ1805 both be ZKD? |
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Post by mit on Sept 1, 2021 11:19:08 GMT 12
The original placards inside the cockpit state 05 is F
And 04 is D
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Post by tbf2504 on Sept 1, 2021 12:43:15 GMT 12
I should have checked what I said above before I sent it. My apologies. NZ1803 ZMZKA, NZ1804 ZMZKB, (R) NZ1804 ZMZKB NZ1805 ZMZKD. Interesting that the placard in the cockpit gives F. Does the placard give the full callsign or just the letter "F"? I have noted from other cockpit placards in the past that there were differences in the callsigns v's the placards. There were many variations from a logical progression in callsigns v's hull numbers. For example Canberra NZ601 ZMZOB, NZ602 ZMZOD. The Iroquois followed the Devon sequence NZ3801 ZMZUA, NZ3802 ZMZUB, NZ1803 ZMZUD, NZ3804 ZMZUF, NZ3805 ZMZUG
In regard to the Devons, the communications ones had ZMZTx callsigns and the sigs ones as above ZMZKs
Look forward to your observations
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Post by tbf2504 on Sept 2, 2021 13:47:05 GMT 12
Mit, further to my information of yesterday for you the lightning strike on NZ1805 was on 11 May 1968 at 4505S 17140E
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Post by grant on Sept 6, 2021 21:10:10 GMT 12
the signals devons NZ1826 ZMZKP, NZ1827 ZMZKQ, NZ1828 ZMZKS. I think NZ1826 was actually a Comms Devon, when I did my AEOP course 74/75 the Sig Devons we used were NZ1812, NZ1827 and NZ1828 |
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Post by tbf2504 on Sept 7, 2021 9:52:55 GMT 12
Grant I think you are right NZ1826 started life as a sigs devon but was converted to comms devon in the late 1960s if memory serves correctly
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jaybee
Squadron Leader
Posts: 122
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Post by jaybee on Sept 7, 2021 12:49:41 GMT 12
Does anyone know what the WT call sign for NZ1821 was? Thanks
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Post by tbf2504 on Sept 7, 2021 13:48:15 GMT 12
NZ1821 was ZMZKO
As a sideline the use of the "ZM" series of letters for RNZAF callsigns originates from the very old allocation of international civil aircraft registrations
New Zealand was allocated ZK,ZL,ZM. As history shows ZK went to civil aircraft, ZL begame radio callsigns for maritime land stations, and radio hams, and ZM went to the RNZAF for aircraft callsigns.
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Post by davidd on Sept 7, 2021 15:18:37 GMT 12
ZM also allocated to one or two Flying Fleas as well! That would have been in the 1930s. ZM was mainly used by ships (mercantile marine only?), and ZL was used by "Hams" (My dad was ZL3UD, my older brother was ZL3TCU) as well as public and privately-owned broadcasting stations such as ZL3ZB, ZL3YA, etc.
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Post by tbf2504 on Sept 7, 2021 15:34:35 GMT 12
Yep you right David the ZM series apart from the two flying fleas was allocated to Maritime. You can see some of those callsigns painted on the hulls on the large trawlers fishing around our waters.
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Post by ZacYates on Sept 7, 2021 17:48:00 GMT 12
ZM also allocated to one or two Flying Fleas as well! That would have been in the 1930s. Yep you right David the ZM series apart from the two flying fleas was allocated to Maritime. As an aside, about four years ago I emailed CAA to ask if - hypothetically - one were to build an HM.14 Flying Flea, would it go onto the ZM or ZK register and the answer was ZK. |
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Post by grant on Sept 7, 2021 18:08:53 GMT 12
The P3s also had WT callsigns in the ZMZE series, used on occasions when we used morse or teletype and didn't have an allocated callsign.
From memory NZ4203 was ZMZEO, not sure why I remember that :-)
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Post by thebrads on Sept 7, 2021 18:35:39 GMT 12
ZM also allocated to one or two Flying Fleas as well! That would have been in the 1930s. ZM was mainly used by ships (mercantile marine only?), and ZL was used by "Hams" (My dad was ZL3UD, my older brother was ZL3TCU) as well as public and privately-owned broadcasting stations such as ZL3ZB, ZL3YA, etc. I can tell you that RNZN ships also have ZM callsigns. HMNZS Canterbury (the frigate, not the ferry) had the callsign ZMCR on the comms office door, i walked past it for about 5 years. Google tells me L421 also uses the same. |
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Post by tbf2504 on Sept 8, 2021 8:51:55 GMT 12
Grant the Orion callsigns were: NZ4201 ZMZEL, NZ4202 ZMZEM, NZ4203 ZMZEN, NZ4204 ZMZEO, NZ4205 ZMZEP. The reason for the lower alphabet allocations (Starting at ZMZEL) was that the TEAL Electras
were still flying with registration/callsigns ZK-TEA, ZK-TEB etc so to avoid confusion with ATC when the aircraft used the last three letters for calling we went to the lower callsign allocations
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Sept 8, 2021 9:51:12 GMT 12
Wasn't ZEM a mattress? I'd be concerned if a P-3 "willomied" or "flolloped" unless of course that describes certain landing charateristics (apologies to those who haven't read any of Douglas Adams' work) |
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