Dion
Sergeant
Posts: 11
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Post by Dion on Oct 1, 2010 17:24:35 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 1, 2010 23:55:44 GMT 12
Utterly superb photos Dion, thanks so much for posting these. Everyone I've talked to who met Bill Jordan, the New Zealand High Commissioner to London, say he was a great bloke. You can tell from that photo the men really like and respect him. He was a remarkable man, he sorted out a lot of disputes and problems for NZ servicemen, and looked after them all. The Lost Bombers site has info on R1038's demise here: www.lostbombers.co.uk/bomber.php?id=8147
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Post by smithy on Oct 2, 2010 15:06:10 GMT 12
Marvellous photos!
Many, many thanks for posting them.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 2, 2010 18:02:01 GMT 12
In the group shot with Bill Jordan, is that Squadron Leader with the medals Theo de Lange??
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Post by oggie2620 on Oct 7, 2010 3:11:41 GMT 12
Dion Those are fab photos... Have you tried a pm to Errol Martyn he might be able to help you (or the 75 (NZ) Sqn secretary if they are in the F540s... (its really funny but we still do those and they are still the same number!!! mind you if it aint broke why fix it?) Dee
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Dion
Sergeant
Posts: 11
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Post by Dion on Oct 13, 2010 18:25:02 GMT 12
One question I do have, I have read in various biographies about about other squadrons is that crew members would enter the days' / nights' events into the squadron "diary".
Is this the same as the squadron "logbook". My grandfather mentioned 75sqn's logbook - he said it wasn't filled in very well.
Is there a separate "diary" and if there is, is it and / or the squadron logbook available to view in electronic form?
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Post by baz62 on Oct 13, 2010 20:02:22 GMT 12
What happened about the uniform dispute??
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Post by oggie2620 on Oct 14, 2010 6:39:24 GMT 12
One question I do have, I have read in various biographies about about other squadrons is that crew members would enter the days' / nights' events into the squadron "diary". Is this the same as the squadron "logbook". My grandfather mentioned 75sqn's logbook - he said it wasn't filled in very well. Is there a separate "diary" and if there is, is it and / or the squadron logbook available to view in electronic form? Will ask for you. Dee
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Post by oggie2620 on Oct 14, 2010 6:53:58 GMT 12
What happened about the uniform dispute?? It doesnt say in the Sqn History but knowing you Kiwis they probably got their way! Hopefully Glen might be able to answer that one when he picks up on Dions query which I have emailed him about!
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Post by smithy on Oct 14, 2010 13:12:53 GMT 12
One question I do have, I have read in various biographies about about other squadrons is that crew members would enter the days' / nights' events into the squadron "diary". Is this the same as the squadron "logbook". My grandfather mentioned 75sqn's logbook - he said it wasn't filled in very well. Is there a separate "diary" and if there is, is it and / or the squadron logbook available to view in electronic form? Dion, You are referring to the squadron ORB or Operational Record Book which comprised Forms 540 (Summary of Events) and 541 (Detail of Work Carried Out) as well as their appendices. Every squadron had one and it was usually kept and maintained by the squadron adjutant. All squadron ORBs are available from The National Archives in Kew and the NA reference for them is "AIR 27" and can be purchased in either digital or hardcopy form. Be forewarned though, if you want a squadron's ORB for the entire war, then it will very often run into thousands of pages and due to copying and the amount of information it can be pricey. Hope that helps, Tim
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Post by errolmartyn on Oct 14, 2010 19:15:27 GMT 12
Dion,
You mention 75 Sqn, in which case you may not be aware that copies of its WWII ORB is also available for inspection at Archives New Zealand in Wellington and at the Air Force Museum of New Zealand at Wigram.
Errol
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Dion
Sergeant
Posts: 11
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Post by Dion on Oct 15, 2010 10:19:58 GMT 12
Thanks Tim & Errol
Unfortunately I live on the other side of the ditch in Oz, which was why I was hoping it might be available electronically. I'll keep it noted though for the next time I'm in NZ.
I'm very interested in seeing it, unfortunately my grandfather didn't talk much about his war-time experience, so anything that provides a little more insight would always help.
Dion
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Post by oggie2620 on Oct 22, 2010 23:26:47 GMT 12
A good excuse to fly over the ditch and visit the beautiful garden city of Christchurch... If you contact the archivists at Wigram they are really helpful. I spent some hours with them last March and it was great! Typically friendly Kiwis. ;D Dee
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Post by fwx on Jun 1, 2014 16:25:20 GMT 12
An old post, but hopefully dion is still around, and will find this useful. I recognised one of the crew photos above from Stan Brooks' collection, via postings by his great-niece Anna Rhodes-Sayer (and subsequent donation of copies to the NZBCA archives). Stan was a past president of the 75 Sqdn Assn, perhaps how he came to be in possession of so many interesting photos. Written on the back of Stan's copy was: "F/O Parker with some air and ground crew. Alex Rowe (NZ) on extreme right as you look at it." Depending on the date this was taken, the crew was most likely: Pilot: F/O Graham Noel Parker, RAF (36247), Pilot, Mar 41 to 29 Sep 41. To CFS Upavon. 2nd Pilot: P/O Clive Walter Scott, RNZAF (NZ40255). 12 Mar to 4 Sep 1941 c/w G N Parker as 2P then own crew. To 11 OTU Bassingbourne. Navigator/Observer: P/O John Adam Breckell, RAF (60077) 9 Mar to 20 Sep 1941. To 15 OTU Harwell. Wireless Operator Sgt Banks, RAF ? Mar to ? Aug 1941. Front Gunner Sgt Folkes RAF, ? Mar to 25? Apr 1941. (Or Sgt Jenkins RAF, ? Apr to ? Aug 1941. Or Sgt McKinnon / Stokes) Rear Gunner: Sgt Alexander Thomas Rowe, mid, RNZAF (NZ401233) c/w G N Parker as Rear Gunner, 12 Mar 41 to 24 Oct 41. - Parker second to left, rear? (only one with wings showing). - Breckell third from left rear, with "O" badge? So it looks like Breckell is the guy getting into the car? At this time, rookie crews were being split up to fly with more experienced individuals, and new Pilots flew up to ten op's as 2nd Pilot before being given their own crew, so there was quite a bit of shuffling of crew members. Parker's crew included a succession of 2nd pilots, and for some reason Rear Gunner Folkes was replaced around the end of April 41, with several different gunners, eventually settling on a Sgt Jenkins. Parker and Breckell appear in another great photo from Stan Brooks' collection, also published in "Return At Dawn" The Official Story of the New Zealand Bomber Squadron of the R.A.F. from June, 1939 to July, 192, by Hilary A. St. George Saunders. Written on the back of this one was: "F/O Parker talking to nav" I don't have complete ORB's from 1941, but it appears that individuals from the Parker crew left the Squadron at different times, and didn't stay together. Their last op' together in R1038 was 8/9 August 41 to Hamburg. The Roe crew appears to have taken over R1038 by 2/3 September, and it was that crew that were killed when she was shot down; none of the Parker crew were involved: R1038 AA-H, lost without trace, target Kiel Friday 12 September 1941; all crew killed - Pilot Sgt Keith Vernon Dudley Roe RAF, (1250397), 2nd Pilot Sgt Kenneth Aubyn Tomlinson, RAF (1108182) Navigator Sgt Maurice Wyndam Stuart McVety, RAF (1252094) W/Op Sgt Derek Frederick Dunlop, RAF (1005738) Front Gunner Sgt Norman Tweedy, RAAF (AUS.402474) Rear Gunner F/Sgt Talfryn Barton Hopkins RCAF (R.64714). Unfortunately Parker was also lost about 12 months after leaving the Squadron, 15/16 October 1942, on his first op' with 103 Sqdn. Cheers, Chris
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Post by davidd on Jun 25, 2014 10:04:26 GMT 12
Dave H About possibility that Theo de Lange is in photo near beginning of this thread, with Bill Jordan, etc. It certainly looks quite a lot like Theo (that pugilistic stance) but he was in New Zealand at this time, actually at Wigram I think, and he was only a lowly F/O or perhaps a F/L. The chap in photo is a wing commander, and has some medal ribbons (presume WW1?) so perhaps the 75 Squadron CO at this time? However it certainly does not look like C E (Cyrus) Kay, DFC (there is a good side-on view of Kay at this time, in 'Forever Strong', page 33), so perhaps it is his successor, W/C R Sawrey-Cookson, DSO, DFC? He took command from Sept 1941, and was lost on ops 5th April 1942.
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Post by fwx on Jun 25, 2014 12:29:16 GMT 12
Thanks David. This is the only picture I could find of him, "Portrait of Squadron Leader R. Sawrey Cookson by Eric Kennington": So I don't think that's Sawrey Cookson. Maybe there was another W/C visiting with Jordan?
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Post by banksyboy on Jul 6, 2014 0:23:51 GMT 12
Greetings Folks
I can verify Sgt. Banks referred to in the photo a couple of posts above, the one with the crew alongside the Wimpy, is my father Douglas Banks (RAF) and is top left in the pic. I do have a journal that he wrote that I have transcribed which may be of interest along with the same suite of photographs. He passed away in 1989 and was in the RAF from 1940 to 1946 with at least his initial tour in 75 Squadron.
All the best from the UK
Peter Banks
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 6, 2014 0:26:56 GMT 12
Welcome Peter. That journal sounds mighty interesting!
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Post by banksyboy on Jul 9, 2014 1:47:44 GMT 12
Thanks Dave I have posted the entries onto my blog and this posting has an index at the bottom of the entry here: banksyboy.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/im-man-yes-i-am-war-hardened-skeptic.htmlSince I started working on this I have also discovered his diary in which he kept the fist few days of his induction at RAF Padgate and also I have some 75 Squadron, Feltwell records which show the crews which ties in with a handful of other personal records I now have. I don't know if you are still in contact with Dion Rowe who posted on this forum a while ago as his grandfather and my father were crewmates? All the best Peter B
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Dion
Sergeant
Posts: 11
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Post by Dion on Aug 18, 2014 15:13:18 GMT 12
Thanks to Chris for the photo and information on the crew. For many years I have wondered who they were. It's nice to be able to put names to faces.
Dion
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