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Post by mstokes on Aug 1, 2009 18:37:52 GMT 12
A future modelling project will be the 1/32 scale revell Super Cub which I have in the stash. I was wanting to creat a bit of a thread for any information or pictures that anyone might want to share.
Also, the cowl on the revell model appears to be a 90hp model. I am sure that all topdressing super cubs were 150hp models, but do any super cub experts know if the cowl was different between both powerplants?
Cheers Mike
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Post by Bruce on Aug 1, 2009 19:51:19 GMT 12
When I was in the aircraft engineering business I looked after a number of PA18s, including some ex topdressing machines. Although they had been returned to non-ag config there were several tell tale indications.
Regarding the cowls, the overall shape is the same, but the -90 had two small openings in the bottom of the front nose bowl. the lower was the carb intake and the upper provided airflow around the sump to aid oil cooling. As the O-320 in the -150 has a very different layout, the carb intake is a bit larger and normally has a small scoop around it. The opening at the back of the lower cowl is a bit bigger on the -150 as well. Individual machines sometimes had a landing light in the cowl, similar to some Cherokees (possibly PA28 nose bowls?).
PA18A-150s (the A stands for "Agricultural - they were factory built as such) have wing flaps (absent on other PA18 models) . A tell tale identifier is the fuselage profile aft of the wing. The standard PA18 top fuselage deck fairs smoothly from the wing trailing edge to the fuselage turtledeck. on A models, the top longerons continue at a constant spacing for about a foot aft of the wing, then curve inwards to the turtledeck. This gives a distinctive "Joggle" or "Bump" in the fuselage top when looking down on it. This was to accomodate the hopper structure. (but this is not to be confused with the wider fuselage "Pregnant Cubs" - they were different again...)
Many Super Cubs can be seen today with the flaps and tweaked fuselage, but they are like C180s, in that bits and pieces have been swapped around during the inevitable rebuilds over the years - the old "Captain Cook's Axe" story!
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Post by Bruce on Aug 1, 2009 20:10:57 GMT 12
This is the only pic of a PA18A-150 I have to hand at the moment. This is ZK-BOX which I looked after at Gulf Aeronautics in the early 1990s. It subsequently crashed and was rebuilt, and I caught up with it a Cliff Bellingham's airstrip at Glenbrook earlier this year.  Note the flaps - painted a different colour even for clarity! . the cowl has a carb inlet scoop, but also a rearward facing exit "Scoop" on each side of the lower pan. the joggle in the top fuselage profile isnt particularly aparent from this angle, but this machine definitely has it. The Undercarriage legs arent fabric covered - some Ag machines did have covered legs, most didn't. Of interest to model makers are the aileron cable runs up the back of the forward struts. we replaced aileron cables very regularly as the slipstream caused them to fret in the fairleads. hopefully the cables can be shown on a 1/32 kit!. There are also handles each side of the rear fuselage. The window config of all cubs varies a lot, this one seems to be the most common arrangement these days. |
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Post by Peter Lewis on Aug 1, 2009 22:57:52 GMT 12
ZK-BKH - Aerial Farming - Milson 28Aug1964  ZK-BKN - Wanganui AC - Wanganui 1967  ZK-BRN - Glen Murray Topdressing - Auckland International 30Jan1966  Lots more, if wanted. |
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Post by fletcherfu24 on Aug 2, 2009 10:54:24 GMT 12
Yes Please....No need to ask Peter.. ;D..you can never see enough ag planes.
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Post by mstokes on Aug 2, 2009 12:00:37 GMT 12
Agree with Pool Guy, can never have too many ag planes.
The infomation you have provided is very helpful, I didn't know about the subtle differences in the fusleage. Karma points all round!
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Post by Kereru on Aug 2, 2009 16:28:11 GMT 12
ZK-BRN - Glen Murray Topdressing - Auckland International 30Jan1966 Lots more, if wanted. Thanks Peter I haven't seen that one in a few years and I assume it is the one that would visit my Dad's farm for topdressing each year 1958 - 60sh at Matakawau on the Manukau Peninsula? If you have anymore shots I would love to see them? Colin |
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Post by Peter Lewis on Aug 3, 2009 21:16:36 GMT 12
Thanks, I think I'm usually behind the door when Karma comes around. Well BRN was pretty obscure. I think it was based on a strip out Glenbrook way, and seldom traveled anywhere else. These photos were taken of course, at the Auckland International Airport opening in January 1966. It crashed at Mercer in April 1966, and the ruins were sold to L W Sutherland, Auckland, a well-know rebuild/parts merchant. No doubt got used up somewhere.  The other Glen Murray Topdressing Cub was ZK-BTC, seen here in a hangar at Ardmore 16Apr66, about a year before it traveled to Mt Maunganui and became the hangar queen there for many years.  ZK-BRY was one of the Cookson Cubs, seen here at Feilding 17Feb1966. It went on to a long career as a glider tug, and still exists in the Auckland area.  Aerial Farming of Palmerston North and their associated Hawkes Bay companies were prolific Cub users. ZK-BRU started work with Aerodress of Dannevirke, and then went on to Aerial Farming when that company took over Aerodress. Seen at Milson 26Aug1964, it again went glider towing and was eventually sold into the USA in 2001.  ZK-BKM dates from 1957, when eyesight-testing tailplane registrations were in vogue. Serving with Central Aviation Co.Ltd., Roxburgh from mid-1957, it was converted into a sprayer in late 1962 before it crashed into a gully West Tuapeka, Otago, & DBF 29Jan63.  |
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Post by bobgod on Aug 6, 2009 11:15:10 GMT 12
Something else for the modellers--the 150 Cub has a horn on the elevator,whereas the 90 has a straight hinge.
I worked for Airwork [nearly 50 years ago!!] and was fairly familiar with the topdressing Cubs.
The first 'Super Cub' that Airwork operated was 135 hp with an O-290 Lycoming This was later rebuilt with an O-320. I cant remember the rego,but I think the pilot was Derick Erskine. It had less wing ribs than the later wings as the spacing became closer where the flaps were.
Most of the 'Dung dusters' had aluminium undercarriage fairings
with a wire cutter down the leading edge.
Useless information,I know--but memories,for me ,nevertheless!
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Post by Peter Lewis on Aug 6, 2009 23:06:48 GMT 12
The first two used by Airwork were ZK-AXH and ZK-AZJ in 1952.
A peripheral question on Cubs - Robertson Air Services of Hamilton are listed as operating 150hp Cub ZK-BFQ from July 1959 until its sale to Jack Ashworth Ltd., Rotorua ( it crashed in 1964).
Now 1959 was well into the Fletcher era, so what role did BFQ play at Robertsons? Active aerial work, or a runabout?
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Post by fletcherfu24 on Aug 7, 2009 7:46:55 GMT 12
That would be the Robair Cub Peter,it was going to be operated by one of Robertsons pilots for spraying,inconjunction with Robertsons, but apparently it went pear shaped and the service was never operated,so Robertsons used a Fletcher with a swathmaster as a sprayer instead.Obviously the Cub was chosen as Fletchers didnt appear to have spray booms fitted until the '60s sometime?
There is a photo of the Cub in the last Topdressers I think?,it had 'Robair' in large script on the fuselage.
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Post by bobgod on Aug 7, 2009 12:53:06 GMT 12
The first two used by Airwork were ZK-AXH and ZK-AZJ in 1952. Thanks for that --the one I mentioned was AZJ-commonly known in the hangar as "The Lazy Jay"-It was Green and white I think whereas most were red and white-although that could have changed as they were crashed and rebuilt fairly regularly. I looked up Google and found this site ,but It wont open for me. ZK-AZJ, Piper PA-18A-135 Aircraft ZK-AZJ Profile, Piper PA-18A-135. ... 1 aircraft record found. Piper PA-18A-135. Add another ZK-AZJ. ZK-AZJ, Piper PA-18A-135 ... www.airport-data.com/aircraft/ZK-AZJ.html - Similar Looks like I might be right about the engine! |
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Post by Peter Lewis on Aug 7, 2009 20:54:57 GMT 12
ZK-AZJ early in life:  ed coates collection and a bit later  Anyone got a pic of ZK-AXH ? Interesting to note that J B Douglas-Clifford, Christchurch has owned ZK-AZJ since 1962. That's 47 years. By my reckoning Monospar ZK-AFF holds the record for the longest ever single-owner duration, 49 years (1937 to 1986). Mr Douglas-Clifford is in the running to eclipse that record. |
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Post by eieio on Aug 15, 2009 8:50:43 GMT 12
 This Cub operating off a suitable paddock on property of Ian Sommerville [brother to Neville of Cheviot Ag Air] in1964 |
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Post by thomarse on Sept 16, 2009 21:14:38 GMT 12
First the trivia, then the question!
The two photos of Aerial Farming Cubs at Milson on the same day in 1964 - BKH is written "Aerial Farming (of NZ) Ltd and BRU Aerial Farming (Holdings) Ltd. My memory tells me the "of NZ" was replaced by the "Holdings" way back about 1960 or so?
My old mate BRU, I've got 500 or so hours of her in my logbook (towing and type ratings).
Now the question (who's older than me?): in the early 60s there were two topdressing Cubs at Wanganui, both of which were the only examples I've seen. They were both in the traditional "1957 Cub paint scheme" but one - BNP, then of Aerial Applicators, later Alexander Helicopters- was black and white, and the other, which I guess was Aerial Farmings, was blue and white. What was her rego?
BNP figures in my logbook too, but that's another (sad) story.
Cheers
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Post by 185skywagon on Sept 16, 2009 21:51:41 GMT 12
What ever happened to BTC ? Is it still in a hangar in Tauranga ?
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Post by Peter Lewis on Sept 16, 2009 21:55:52 GMT 12
One is on 26th August, the other on the 28th! but yes there is not a lot in it. I guess in many cases the answer is that the repainting of the signwriting on the actual aircraft limped a long way behind the company name change. I'm sure that there are still a couple of Fletchers around bearing remnants of James Aviation and Robertson Air Service markings. According to my records, ZK-BKH went to Aerodress Ltd., Dannevirke 3/3/1956, to Aerial Farming of NZ Ltd., Palmerston North 18/3/1960 and then owner changed to Aerial Farming (Holdings) Ltd. at a later date. ZK-BRU went to Aerodress Ltd. 30/5/1957 and then directly to Aerial Farming (Holdings) Ltd. later. Can't help you with the ID of the AF Cub, I guess they would have rotated them through? My only photo of ZK-BNP was taken at Masterton 22Jan1977 in her later glider towing days, white and blue at that time.  |
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Post by eieio on Sept 20, 2009 21:16:59 GMT 12
185skywagon..BTC remains recently was said to be somewhere at Hamilton... The big hangar at tauranga is gone.
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Post by 185skywagon on Sept 21, 2009 18:38:06 GMT 12
Oh ok thanks.
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Post by Dave.K on Sept 30, 2009 20:33:18 GMT 12
BFV, Believe this is 180hp, used for glider towing at Omararma.  |
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