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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 27, 2013 16:52:04 GMT 12
Previously posted on the forum by Tony Macdonald (Macfire) but actually printed and supplied by Neville Mines (Shorty)
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 27, 2013 16:53:10 GMT 12
It's a terrible photo but is that rocket stubs under the Corsair's wings I wonder?
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Post by Damon on Nov 27, 2013 18:08:00 GMT 12
I think its a cracker shot. The Corsair a FG-1D ?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 27, 2013 18:30:25 GMT 12
I mean the quality was terrible rather than the subject.
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Post by komata on Nov 27, 2013 18:32:17 GMT 12
Thanks, Dave
I have seen another image of the same formation taken from a lower angle and almost dead-ahead. Presumably it was an 'officially-sanctioned' occasion. Judging by its profile the P-40 is an N-25, and appears to still retain its 'White-overall \ Pacific-theatre' tail.
Three questions:
Do we have any way to see what appears to be the P-40's cowling number (or is the 'light coloured' area merely the propeller tip?
Do we have an date for the image? (Possibly March 'sometime' 1946).
If the photo-date/s can be established, are we likely to be able to locate the serial numbers for the piston-engined aircraft involved?
If any of the above can be answered with certainty, we will have moved slightly forwards in our quest to answer the question that this thread has posed.
One small step, etc.
Thanks.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 27, 2013 20:28:09 GMT 12
The Meteor first flew in New Zealand from RNZAF Station Whenuapai on the 1st of February 1946. After a few test trials it moved to RNZAF Station Ardmore and joined the newly created Jet Propulsion Unit there. For around two months various flights were made there including some comparison flights with resident Corsairs of the Rocket Firing School, Ardmore.
From April through till May 1946 the Meteor was temporarily attached to the Central Flying School, RNZAF Station Wigram. I am sure this was to check out chief pilot S/Ldr Bob McKay in instructional techniques. It then toured various stations to show it off and to check out various pilots on the type, before returning to Ardmore on 7th of June 1946, or thereabouts where more pilot conversions took place.
So this gives you a bit of a time scale, hopefully.
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Post by komata on Nov 27, 2013 20:55:21 GMT 12
Thanks Dave.
Lets see....
To eliminate the possibilities...
Rocket Firing Corsairs. The one in the photo is fitted with zero-length mountings for rockets.
As it is probable that the 'rocket-equipped' Corsairs were concentrated in one spot for such a purpose, then possibly this sortie was flown from RNZAF Ardmore?
Were there any P-40N-25's 's in residence (as 'hacks' possibly) at Ardmore at that time?
Is it possible therefore that this image was taken during a 'Comparison Flight' with the RFS aircraft?
At this stage, a hypothesis only, but a possibility.
BTW: Do we know the source of that image?
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Post by camtech on Nov 27, 2013 22:12:26 GMT 12
Probably an FG-1D, but I note a number of NZ assembled F4Us primarily serials from NZ5550 up still in use right into mid 1946 at least.
Interestingly Max Scannell's logbook indicates he belonged to 15 Sqdn during the post war period and into 1946, as well as flying with CFE.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 28, 2013 0:41:38 GMT 12
Yes No. 15 Squadron reformed at Ardmore postwar along with No. 14 Squadron. They worked up together, and then when No. 14 Squadron had left for Japan, No. 15 Squadron eventually disbanded but its pilots were largely among those who went on the second draft to J Force, I believe.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 28, 2013 0:52:46 GMT 12
According to some info David Duxbury sent me a little while back, the Central Fighter Establishment at Ardmore, which formed on 30th of November 1945, had six F4U-1D Corsairs on strength, along with three Harvards and three TBF Avengers.
No. 14 Squadron and No. 15 Squadron reformed at Ardmore on the 1st of December 1945, and they had an establishment of 18 Corsairs.
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Post by camtech on Nov 28, 2013 11:02:43 GMT 12
Check of my records indicate following F4U-1D flown during this period: NZ5550, 5556, 5557 (Flown Rukuhia to Ardmore 21 Feb 46), 5559, 5561, 5562 (Flown Ardmore to Rukuhia 20 Mar 46), 5567 (Flown Ardmore to Rukuhia 12 Mar 46), 5575, 5577 (Flown Ardmore to Rukuhia 20 Feb 46)
I'll have a look and see if I can find some of the FG-1D's that were operational with CFE.
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Post by komata on Nov 28, 2013 13:16:34 GMT 12
Camtech
Thanks.
Do your records also record P-40 activity during 1946? (Including the traffic from Ardmore to Rukuhia - even if it was one-way)
If so, what P-40/s was/were at Ardmore at the time.
Thanks
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Post by shorty on Nov 28, 2013 15:07:01 GMT 12
My copy of the image (shown above and credited to Tony Macdonald!) came from a person by the name of Mason who lived near the lake at Hamilton and who son was in the ATC in the 1960s
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 28, 2013 17:12:02 GMT 12
The 'credit to Tony is only that he posted it on another thread. He did not take the photo himself, to my knowledge.
Would that have been the well known aviation artist and decal maker Reg Mason by any chance, Shorty?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 28, 2013 17:28:51 GMT 12
If it is of any interest, the final two Corsairs flown by F/Lt Allan "Skip" Watson, who was CO of the Rocket Firing School at the time although he left the RNZAF just at the end of this month, were: 23 April 1946 - Corsair NZ5510 - Rukuhia to Ohakea 28 April 1946 - Corsair NZ5534 - Practice flying
(on that last entry his logbook actually says 18 April rather than 28 but this has to be a mistake as it's between 23rd and 30th) and all are under the April 1946 page entries.)
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 28, 2013 18:23:57 GMT 12
For Les's interest, if no-one else's, the following aircraft were flown by Skip Watson in the Rocket Firing School, Ardmore, from his appointment to the unit till the end.
14 September 1945 - NZ5566 - Rocket Firing - 20° 15 September 1945 - NZ5423 - Rocket Firing - 35° 16 September 1945 - NZ5577 - Rocket Firing - 35° 17 September 1945 - NZ5456 - Rocket Firing - 50°
01 October 1945 - NZ5567 - Ardmore - Raglan - Rotorua - Tauranga - Return 12 October 1945 - NZ5442 - Belly Tank Test 15 October 1945 - NZ5567 - Aerobatic Display Returned POW 20 October 1945 - NZ5537 - Ardmore - C. Egmont - Ohakea - Mahia - Russell - Ardmore (this trip was a whopping 6.55 hours!!) 25 October 1945 - NZ5567 - Live Rockets 3 25"
09 November 1945 - NZ5543 - Aircraft Test 11 November 1945 - NZ5543 - Nelson - Hobsonville 12 November 1945 - NZ5541 - Aerobatics 19 November 1945 - NZ5556 - Live Bombing
12 December 1945 - NZ5567 - Ardmore - Ohakea - Kapiti - Ohakea - Return 16 December 1945 - NZ5562 - Formation
22 February 1946 - NZ5535 - Rukuhia - Hobsonville 25 February 1946 - NZ5528 - Rukuhia - Hobsonville
In February, Skip also flew Meteor NZ6001 (twice on 28th of Feb, "First Solo" then "Flying Practic"), as well as Avenger NZ2506 (4 times), and Oxford NZ2149 lots. I am assuming the Oxford must have been to gain experience in twin engine types before converting to the Meteor.
08 March 1946 - NZ5559 - "Farewell Glory" 13 March 1946 - NZ5561 - Air To Ground 17 March 1946 - NZ5562 - "Comparative Tests Meteor" 21 March 1946 - NZ5559 - "Rukahia Ferry"
Plus this month... Meteor NZ6001 (one flight on the 7th but later on 17th March a flight marked "Further tests, so he compared the types form both seats)
During this whole period Allan Watson was also flying Avengers, Harvards, and Oxfords regularly, plus he was riding around the country in Dakotas and DH86's.
So Allan was a key man in those comparative tests between the Corsair and Meteor by the look of things. Although he had flown the P-40's during the war in action, not once does the type show up in his logbook for all that seven month postwar period he was at Ardmore. So I suspect there may not have been any P-40's on Ardmore station at that time otherwise he'd probably have had a fly in one I'd think. He was one of the few pilots left on the station after No. 14 Squadron left and No. 15 Squadron disbanded, and seems to have had access to any of the base hacks.
Other station aircraft he flew were: Harvards NZ1039, NZ1086, NZ1019, NZ1084 Oxfords NZ2146, NZ2149 Avengers NZ2503, NZ2506
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Post by camtech on Nov 28, 2013 18:42:56 GMT 12
Thanks, Dave. However I suggest that the latter dates ie 22 February 1945 - NZ5535 - Rukuhia - Hobsonville 25 February 1945 - NZ5528 - Rukuhia - Hobsonville
In February, Skip also flew Meteor NZ6001 (twice on 28th of Feb, "First Solo" then "Flying Practic"), as well as Avenger NZ2506 (4 times), and Oxford NZ2149 lots. I am assuming the Oxford must have been to gain experience in twin engine types before converting to the Meteor.
08 March 1945 - NZ5559 - "Farewell Glory" 13 March 1945 - NZ5561 - Air To Ground 17 March 1945 - NZ5562 - "Comparative Tests Meteor" 21 March 1945 - NZ5559 - "Rukahia Ferry"
are in fact 1946
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 28, 2013 19:51:36 GMT 12
Quite correct, my error, now corrected.
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Post by komata on Nov 29, 2013 5:41:33 GMT 12
Dave, Camtech
Thanks Gents - I think we are making progress in our search. It appears (by inference), that there were no P-40's at Ardmore,in 1946, making one location less to concern ourselves with.
Moving South, therefore, is it possible that the 'formation' was flown from RNZAF Rukuhia?
And do we have a date for the image yet?
The quest continues..
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 29, 2013 9:28:20 GMT 12
The quickest way to solve the date and place issue is to check S/Ldr Bob McKay's logbook as he'll surely have noted the formation in there, with date and place, and if we're lucky maybe even who the other pilots were, although the latter is unlikely.
Does anyone know where his logbook resides?
I would not be too surprised if the formation occurred at a public event. There was an Air Force open day type airshow in 1946 at Rukuhia and there were all sorts of aeroplanes at that. Perhaps it happened there, particularly as Shorty says he got the negative for that photo from a Hamilton chap, Mr. Mason (confirmed as not Reg Mason, btw)
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