CAC Ceres

[ron]

Looking for a Ceres in need of a loving home. Any leads?

Regards

[Peter Lewis]

Six came to NZ, two known survivors:

ZK-BPU ex Aerial Farming/James Aviation to MoTAT Auckland 1972

ZK-BZO ex Aerial Farming/Cookson/Manawatu ATD, last known with M Nicolls at Ohakea for rebuild as Wirraway

[hairy]

flyernzl said:

Six came to NZ, two known survivors:

ZK-BPU ex Aerial Farming/James Aviation to MoTAT Auckland 1972

ZK-BZO ex Aerial Farming/Cookson/Manawatu ATD, last known with M Nicolls at Ohakea for rebuild as Wirraway

What about ZK-BSQ c/n CA28-11 ex.VH-CEM derelict with Ken Jacobs at Riverhead?
I haven't seen it but it is noted in the 2007 Wings Directory.

[Bruce]

Motat got a spare set of wings with their Ceres when they acquired it in 1972. Those wings sat around in the Meola Rd sheds for many years, as did the whole aircraft later in the piece. According to the story I heard from a reputable source, in the bad old days of the late '80s, someone got tired of the shed full of Ceres bits so they decided to scrap one set of wings. The scrappy duely arrived and carted of 2 wings. It wasnt until later that they discovered that they were both the same side!
this may explain why the Ceres does not have its wings on at the moment. (scuttlebutt only of course... nothing confirmed)

[corsair67]

Isn't there one on display at Ashburton?

[DragonflyDH90]

No, I think thats the Cropmaster your thinking of.

[corsair67]

Yes, I've just had a look through my photos, and there certainly isn't a Ceres at Ashburton; so I think I must have been thinking of the Cropmaster.

I'm sure I've seen one somewhere else on display in NZ though, apart from the MoTaT one.

[p40fanatic]

I heard that the Omaka one had either some pieces or the entire machine sent to Oz to help in a Wirraway rebuild. Given the nature of the machine, I'd dearly love to see one flying in NZ.....

In Wanganui Aero Work colours, of course!

[ron]

Thanks everyone for the leads. I understand that there is a Wirraway project over here in Queensland that came from NZ. It is said to include parts from:

c/n 28-4 VH-CED/ZK-BPU
c/n 28-9 VH-CEL/ZK-BZO

Are there any recent reports on the status of ZK-BSQ? The trouble with aeroplanes in museums is that those museums generally want to keep them! Find me a Ceres and I promise it will stay a Ceres.

Rgds

[Peter Lewis]

hairy said:

What about ZK-BSQ c/n CA28-11 ex.VH-CEM derelict with Ken Jacobs at Riverhead?
I haven't seen it but it is noted in the 2007 Wings Directory.

ZK-BSQ ex Aerial Farming/Wanganui Aero Work, F/l Coleman's strip, Raetihi, 24May68. First I've heard of it With Jacobs. If it's in a similar environment to the Avenger, it'll be in a bad way.

I would say that it's BZO that has gone back to Aussie. Can't be many parts from BPU with it (except possibly two identical wings?) as the aircraft is still at MoTAT. Apparently converting a Ceres back to a Wirraway is no small job, as the wing platform is substantially different (topdressers fly slower than advanced trainers) and of course all the undercarriage in the Ceres is fixed gear.

The Croppie at Ashburton is ZK-CPW

[Richard Wesley]

bruce said:

Motat got a spare set of wings with their Ceres when they acquired it in 1972. Those wings sat around in the Meola Rd sheds for many years, as did the whole aircraft later in the piece. According to the story I heard from a reputable source, in the bad old days of the late '80s, someone got tired of the shed full of Ceres bits so they decided to scrap one set of wings. The scrappy duely arrived and carted of 2 wings. It wasnt until later that they discovered that they were both the same side!
this may explain why the Ceres does not have its wings on at the moment. (scuttlebutt only of course... nothing confirmed)

Interesting story, but not one that seems to hold much water. The two Ceres wings (port and starboard, but now I would love to check again) have always been safely stored away waiting for the day there to room to refit them (under cover space at the museum being at a premium). I've never ever heard of duplicate wings being held by the museum?

Sounds to me lit could be a left over 'mouldering monsters / motat is evil forever' story to me. There seem to be several other often repeated comments about the state of the Lancaster (it's back about to break, drooping wings etc), which also don't seem to have any foundation in fact.

[hairy]

I also have been told the wing story by what I would consider an extremely reliable source and if you look at the proposed aircraft layout for the newly extended hangar you will see that the Ceres is displayed with only one wing attached.

The green a/c in the bottom right corner. (below the Air Truk and next to the Gemini)


Image borrowed from MOTAT website.
www.motat.org.nz/Projects/Funding%20-%20Aviation%20hangar.htm

A couple of questions;
-is the Lanc. going to be suspended? (In the plan it has the Swordfish under the tail.)
-Friendship, what Friendship?
-Why does the Ventura have to be in the roof, why not the lodestar? is this a P.C consideration? (sorry it's my favorite)

[Richard Wesley]

Checked with a good Motat friend on the Ceres wings (as I am overseas right now) and the old girls two wings are the originals and have been completely refurbished ready for refitting when required. I'll take and post some photos when I get back to confirm it first hand.

He thinks that maybe the story refers to the other Ceres that was out at Ardmore at that time? Was that BSQ? Maybe Ken Jacob's example has two of the same??

[Richard Wesley]

Oh yes, and a Motat layout debate, should be a new thread really. I'm sure one could spend hours figuring out the different combinations. My main points would be…

- Overs and unders do seem strange. Surely the replica Swordfish would be better in the air than the Ventura?
- Why is the Vampire at the front, wouldn’t a bright yellow Tiger have more to do with the Lancaster and Mosquito?
- Having the Hind, P40 and Vampire together (and maybe a Skyhawk in the future) would be great.
- The Lodestar and other smaller top dressing aircraft need to be together, not on separate sides of the hangar.
- Would there be an argument to have the Solent at the front and the Lancaster right in the middle instead, more of a centerpiece?

[fletcherfu24]

If people are converting Wiiraways to Ceres and Ceres back to Wirraways,couldn't their people all get together and just swap projects?

My MOTAT question is in the early 80's they had a 300hp Fletcher in a dismantled state,it seems to have vanished?

[Richard Wesley]

fletcherfu24 said:

My MOTAT question is in the early 80's they had a 300hp Fletcher in a dismantled state,it seems to have vanished?

Can't help there, must have been just before my time. A Fletcher has never appeared on any list of Motat aircraft that I have come across, and there are no Fletcher parts in any of the stores. Perhaps it was like the Josephine or the P39, with the museum for a short time but not part of the collection.

[fletcherfu24]

Cheers,I can rest easy now,it was at Meola Rd,had no rego,but the colour scheme suggested an ex Barr Bros machine.

[Dave Homewood]

hairy said:

IA couple of questions;
-is the Lanc. going to be suspended? (In the plan it has the Swordfish under the tail.)

Perhaps it might be perched, like Hendon's Lancaster and Wigram's Hudson?

-Friendship, what Friendship?

MOTAT has had a Friendship for years, it is ex-Air New Zealand and is styored for MOTAT at Harewood till they have the new hangar ready.

-Why does the Ventura have to be in the roof, why not the lodestar? is this a P.C consideration? (sorry it's my favorite)

Why not rerestore it too, it's got a lot of surfave rust and I'm wholly unconvinced by that colour scheme as being accurate. I agree with Richard that replicas like the Swordfish would be better hung up, but I do like the way the aircrew are poised with the Swordfish, passing the chute into the cockpit.

I'd like to see the Hudson and Ventura both on the ground and sitting together. I wouldn't suspend the Lodestar though, I doubt that poor thing could handle the strain. Better off scrapping it and buying a new one.

[denysjones]

Dave I don't think you right on the F27 front.

At Harewood are 3 a/c

1. The Fairchild which belongs to the crashfire of CIAL and lurks outside on the lawn.

2. The part airframe in the training school which belongs to the training school and is partially chopped and has been used may times over for skin repair.

3. The whole a/c which is the property of ANZ corporate but lives in the training school and which I have been told on many an occasion "has not been assigned to anyone" and equally I have been told is not up to the training school to decide the fate of.

What conclusive proof have you that MoTaT has "a Friendship stored by ANZ"?

[ron]

Hi Denys

Have you got a Ceres for me?

Rgds