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Post by mumbles on Apr 8, 2011 15:28:21 GMT 12
Wow, 'wall of text'. Don't see those around here too often.
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Post by errolmartyn on Apr 8, 2011 15:57:36 GMT 12
I am looking forward to reading what you have discovered Errol. I guess it means you have discredited all those people who gave eye witness accounts of seeing him fly in 1903. It can't be too easy to do after all these years. Easier than accepting eye-witness memories 50+ years after the claimed event! Footnotes from my history: Fallibility of memory in the Pearse case, in particular, is not confined to these elderly ‘witnesses’ but has also been unwittingly demonstrated by Ogilvie and Rodliffe. In late 2003, at a Christchurch presentation Rodliffe recounted how, during a break in the filming of a 1975 television drama, a so-called ‘replica’ of Pearse’s aeroplane took to the air when the horse hitched to it bolted. He made much of the aeroplane’s apparent stability in the air, claiming that it had so travelled about 200 yards. Ogilvie, sharing the stage with him at the time, on being asked by his friend to confirm this, responded that it was more like 50 yards, if that. Here, then, is a four-fold contradiction of memory of a relatively recent event, and this between witnesses who claim to be authorities on Pearse. See also 'The Seven Sins of Memory – how the mind forgets and remembers', by Daniel L. Schacter, pub Houghton Mifflin, 2001. Errol
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Post by errolmartyn on Apr 8, 2011 16:06:09 GMT 12
"Most of these accounts were recorded by aviation experts, George Bolt, Harold Cederman and other reliable researchers."
Bolt and Cederman may well have been 'aviation experts' but it is a mistake to assume ipso facto that this also made them aviation historians - neither man was. The reliability of the 'reliable researchers' is questionable, as few if any appear to have taken cognisance of Schacter's 'Seven Sins' (see my previous post, above).
Errol
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 8, 2011 18:14:18 GMT 12
Yes, I see your points there Errol and agree with you. My main thoughts about the eyewitneses is some remembered the date because of what they were doing at the time, ie in school, etc or even living in that area. there's a big leap between the years of 1903 and 1909 in terms of these people remembering if they were at school or not, most rural people left school by age 12 or so back then. I guess a school role would help. to prove if they were still in school in 1909.
But yes i have a similar experience trying to find the facts about the Southern Cross's visit to Cambridge. There are many eyewitnesses but some try to tell me it was 1928, which it definately wasn't, but that's how they recall it. I cannot find any documented evidence of the visit to Cambridge's airfield, but too many people say it happened for it not to be true, and i also have a few photos, but no known date!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 8, 2011 18:16:07 GMT 12
What I am most keen to see if Mythbusters do this story is the end. When they realise the original design won't fly they'll either tweak it till it does indeed fly - or even better, they'll blow it up!! ;D
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Post by strikemaster on Apr 8, 2011 18:27:21 GMT 12
Great points, Dave. Cast it in concrete and cover it in C4. Lol. Either way, busted or not, it'll be entertaining.
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Post by flyjoe180 on Apr 8, 2011 19:23:10 GMT 12
Reckon any aviation related episode has to be worth it. I watch with interest...
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 8, 2011 19:43:26 GMT 12
Yes, although they totally cocked up another good aviation episode when they concluded that the story of a WWII airman jumping from a plane with no parachute and surviving was a myth that was busted. It did happen, on three occasions actually.
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Post by strikemaster on Apr 8, 2011 22:32:13 GMT 12
Also in WWII, a Lanc crew member with a burnt chute survived a fall from a ridiculous height. Over 10,000 feet I think it was. He hit spruce tree's and deep snow. He wasn't injury free, but he survived.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 8, 2011 23:07:00 GMT 12
Also in WWII, a Lanc crew member with a burnt chute survived a fall from a ridiculous height. Over 10,000 feet I think it was. He hit spruce tree's and deep snow. He wasn't injury free, but he survived. It does actually happen occasonally. In the late-1970s, a skydiver at Bridge Pa hit the ground at terminal velocity with nothing whatsoever out (he had been under a malfunctioned main canopy, but cut it away and for some reason didn't manage to deploy his reserve). He landed on the road verge and everyone (including me) thought he was history, but he actually survived it, although he went through numerous operations over a couple of years to rebuild the shattered left-hand side of his body. He became a total pain-in-the-arse to staff at Hastings Hospital where he spent a lot of time between operations, and used to get mates to smuggle in bottles of beer. It's a wonder he didn't have a drinking problem by the time he got out of hospital. Believe it or not, he went back skydiving again a few years later, then got into BASE jumping, including off the 318-foot-high Mohaka railway viaduct near Raupunga. I lost track of him several years ago....I wouldn't have a clue where he is today.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 8, 2011 23:34:15 GMT 12
Strikemaster, that was one of the three that I was referring to. He was RAF rear gunner Nicholas Alkemade. The other two who succeeded were from the USA and Russia respectively. More here on Alkemade: www.trivia-library.com/c/time-and-history-320-am-wwii-jump-without-a-parachute.htmDon't forget the tourist who jumped at Taupo a couple of years ago who's chute didn't open. He landed in thorney scrub and was laregly ok. It was all caught on film too.
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Post by strikemaster on Apr 9, 2011 1:34:32 GMT 12
Yeah, that's the one. Busted, I think. For some dumb reason I read WWI in your post. Doh.
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Post by paddy on Apr 9, 2011 9:28:47 GMT 12
Also in WWII, a Lanc crew member with a burnt chute survived a fall from a ridiculous height. Over 10,000 feet I think it was. He hit spruce tree's and deep snow. He wasn't injury free, but he survived. It does actually happen occasonally. In the late-1970s, a skydiver at Bridge Pa hit the ground at terminal velocity with nothing whatsoever out (he had been under a malfunctioned main canopy, but cut it away and for some reason didn't manage to deploy his reserve). He landed on the road verge and everyone (including me) thought he was history, but he actually survived it, although he went through numerous operations over a couple of years to rebuild the shattered left-hand side of his body. He became a total pain-in-the-arse to staff at Hastings Hospital where he spent a lot of time between operations, and used to get mates to smuggle in bottles of beer. It's a wonder he didn't have a drinking problem by the time he got out of hospital. Believe it or not, he went back skydiving again a few years later, then got into BASE jumping, including off the 318-foot-high Mohaka railway viaduct near Raupunga. I lost track of him several years ago....I wouldn't have a clue where he is today. Who was that Kiwithrottlejockey?
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 9, 2011 13:15:26 GMT 12
Kevin Trussler
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Apr 10, 2011 10:48:08 GMT 12
(reference reply #29 by kiwithrotlejockey) Try looking near the bottom of tall ominous cliffs...
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Post by John L on Apr 10, 2011 14:01:23 GMT 12
I beleive the highest fall over water was a US Navy pilot who ejected at 10,000 ft and had his chute not open - apparently he survived because (among other things) he had no spleen (it had been removed after an accident some years earlier). Mythbusters is fun to watch, but they have "busted the myth" on several things, where their method and presumptions bore a mere passing resemblance to the problem.....
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 10, 2011 14:40:07 GMT 12
Agreed on your last sentence Jon, but they are good enough to accept criticism after the fact and often revisit the myth with audience suggestions and input, which I admire them for.
There are some amazing things that come out of the show, such as the Hollywood thing of diving underwater when you are being shot at actually works!
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Post by lumpy on Apr 10, 2011 15:11:46 GMT 12
Agreed on your last sentence Jon, but they are good enough to accept criticism after the fact and often revisit the myth with audience suggestions and input, which I admire them for. There are some amazing things that come out of the show, such as the Hollywood thing of diving underwater when you are being shot at actually works! Did you see the one where they tried to get an aircraft to take off , whilst sitting on a conveyor belt that was going in the other direction ? Even the pilot got it wrong ! Quite entertaining though .
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 10, 2011 15:17:19 GMT 12
No. I never saw that one.
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Post by Officer Crabtree on Apr 10, 2011 15:20:08 GMT 12
I did, although can't remember what happened.
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