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Post by beegeetee on Jun 14, 2019 6:05:09 GMT 12
Great timing, from my point of view...a perfect spring-board for underscoring to the nay-sayers the very real need to stop the procrastination The package needs to be signed off by both US Houses, right? I'm sure that process is running smoothly - NOT! I appreciate the sarcasm, but in reality it's just a formality. The P-8 purchase was approved in a timely manner and that involves WAY more secret, sensitive tech than the C-130J. Besides, it's in their own best interest to keep their aircraft company's order books full.
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Post by ErrolC on Jun 14, 2019 8:58:52 GMT 12
The package needs to be signed off by both US Houses, right? I'm sure that process is running smoothly - NOT! I appreciate the sarcasm, but in reality it's just a formality. The P-8 purchase was approved in a timely manner and that involves WAY more secret, sensitive tech than the C-130J. Besides, it's in their own best interest to keep their aircraft company's order books full. P-8 was approved well before the House became Democrat, and I keep seeing reference to the Senate basically not even debating anything the House sends them. Have other items been treated as a formality in the last couple of months? I hope so, but logic doesn't seem to guide things any more.
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Post by beegeetee on Jun 16, 2019 18:58:36 GMT 12
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Post by senob on Jun 16, 2019 21:02:52 GMT 12
Nobody except the media has said that it will be five. All we know is that the C-130J-30 is the preferred option and that $1.1 billion + has been indicated as the budget for them. How many actually acquired will depend upon costings and availability. It could be four it could be six, but at present the only ones who really know aren't saying anything.
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Post by markrogers on Jun 16, 2019 21:16:51 GMT 12
Where would the C-130J-30s be coming from? They could be low hour or near new airframes that were stored at Davis Monthan?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 16, 2019 21:22:44 GMT 12
If they were coming out of storage I doubt it would take them four years to get here. Especially given the urgent need for replacement. They will be new build, surely.
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Post by ErrolC on Jun 16, 2019 21:50:23 GMT 12
The badly-needed Fat Albert replacement for the Blue Angels are ex-RAF airframes. This suggests that there aren't spare US airframes, or at least not a couple that the USAF was prepared to release to the USN.
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Post by kiwirico on Jun 17, 2019 3:09:23 GMT 12
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Post by Calum on Jun 17, 2019 14:56:57 GMT 12
The badly-needed Fat Albert replacement for the Blue Angels are ex-RAF airframes. This suggests that there aren't spare US airframes, or at least not a couple that the USAF was prepared to release to the USN. I think the fat Alert replacement being ex RAF was because the short J model is produced as often as the -30 and RAF wanted to downsize their fleet now they have the A-400M.. Happy to be corrected.
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Post by snafu on Jun 17, 2019 20:43:38 GMT 12
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Post by macnz on Jun 27, 2019 13:49:08 GMT 12
The badly-needed Fat Albert replacement for the Blue Angels are ex-RAF airframes. This suggests that there aren't spare US airframes, or at least not a couple that the USAF was prepared to release to the USN. I think the fat Alert replacement being ex RAF was because the short J model is produced as often as the -30 and RAF wanted to downsize their fleet now they have the A-400M.. Happy to be corrected. "Scheduled for delivery in spring 2020, the $29.7 million contract was awarded to the United Kingdom Ministry of Defence (UK MOD) for a divested C-130J Super Hercules. Cost savings associated with acquisition of the used aircraft and other airworthiness requirements is approximately $50 million less than the cost of a new aircraft [. ..] The Marines don't take a hit by having to give up one of their prized KC-130Js, while at the same time the Blues get an upgrade and the Navy doesn't have to shell out roughly $75 million for a brand new airframe. On top of all that, America's closest ally gets to unload an airframe it no longer wants." Read More Here: www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28671/the-navy-has-bought-the-blue-angels-an-ex-royal-air-force-c-130j-to-replace-fat-albertIf Ron Marks wants to save some money on a preferred C130J 'tactical' airlift solution, then at approx. $NZD 44m per airframe they could buy 6 for less than $300m from UK, buy a simulator from Lockheed and still spend less than half the budget provision plus get them spun up earlier. That would leave the air force $600m freed up towards; P-8s, Network or 'strategic' airlift ambitions. Given UK Govt Brexit fiasco and MOD looming shortfalls for their F35 and Sub projects, NZ would be in a strong negotiation position. If we are going to spend $1+ billion dollars I dont think buying a 60 year old design at new prices is a prudent investment no matter how venerable the product. Max payload for C130J (19t) and C130J-30 (20t) introduced 1999, cruise 348 knots. Compare to: Boeing jv'd with Embraer to produce KC390 payload 26t intro. 2019, cruise 470kn) Kawasaki produces the C-2 payload 26-37t intro.2016, cruise 480 kn, and Airbus produces the A400m - payload 37t intro.2013, cruise 422kn
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Post by typerated on Jun 27, 2019 15:01:38 GMT 12
Following your top trumps figures why not buy C-5's - fast cruise and lots of upload!
I think you are missing that it is a TACTICAL airlifter.
Perhaps much more relevant is the performance figures into short and rough strips. You might find the C-130 suddenly becomes top dog!
And clapped out Ex RAF C-130's are not value for money if you intend to work them. Think Andovers!
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Post by beegeetee on Jun 27, 2019 16:53:52 GMT 12
I think the fat Alert replacement being ex RAF was because the short J model is produced as often as the -30 and RAF wanted to downsize their fleet now they have the A-400M.. Happy to be corrected. "Scheduled for delivery in spring 2020, the $29.7 million contract was awarded to the United Kingdom Ministry of Defence (UK MOD) for a divested C-130J Super Hercules. Cost savings associated with acquisition of the used aircraft and other airworthiness requirements is approximately $50 million less than the cost of a new aircraft [. ..] The Marines don't take a hit by having to give up one of their prized KC-130Js, while at the same time the Blues get an upgrade and the Navy doesn't have to shell out roughly $75 million for a brand new airframe. On top of all that, America's closest ally gets to unload an airframe it no longer wants." Read More Here: www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28671/the-navy-has-bought-the-blue-angels-an-ex-royal-air-force-c-130j-to-replace-fat-albertIf Ron Marks wants to save some money on a preferred C130J 'tactical' airlift solution, then at approx. $NZD 44m per airframe they could buy 6 for less than $300m from UK, buy a simulator from Lockheed and still spend less than half the budget provision plus get them spun up earlier. There are a number of serious problems with this plan, the most obvious being that 6 of the 10 aircraft the UK are selling have already been sold and depending on how large Bangladesh's follow on order is there are probably only 3 or less still available.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Jun 27, 2019 17:14:57 GMT 12
Also hearing UK is reconsidering if they really need to sell several of the items originally on the sale list.
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Post by 30sqnatc on Jun 27, 2019 17:19:24 GMT 12
That would leave the air force $600m freed up towards; P-8s, Network or 'strategic' airlift ambitions. Given UK Govt Brexit fiasco and MOD looming shortfalls for their F35 and Sub projects, NZ would be in a strong negotiation position. It does not work that way as it isn't Air Force money, it's NZDF's so goes back into central pot for re-prioritisation across all services needs.
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Post by senob on Jun 27, 2019 20:08:06 GMT 12
I think the fat Alert replacement being ex RAF was because the short J model is produced as often as the -30 and RAF wanted to downsize their fleet now they have the A-400M.. Happy to be corrected. "Scheduled for delivery in spring 2020, the $29.7 million contract was awarded to the United Kingdom Ministry of Defence (UK MOD) for a divested C-130J Super Hercules. Cost savings associated with acquisition of the used aircraft and other airworthiness requirements is approximately $50 million less than the cost of a new aircraft [. ..] The Marines don't take a hit by having to give up one of their prized KC-130Js, while at the same time the Blues get an upgrade and the Navy doesn't have to shell out roughly $75 million for a brand new airframe. On top of all that, America's closest ally gets to unload an airframe it no longer wants." Read More Here: www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28671/the-navy-has-bought-the-blue-angels-an-ex-royal-air-force-c-130j-to-replace-fat-albertIf Ron Marks wants to save some money on a preferred C130J 'tactical' airlift solution, then at approx. $NZD 44m per airframe they could buy 6 for less than $300m from UK, buy a simulator from Lockheed and still spend less than half the budget provision plus get them spun up earlier. That would leave the air force $600m freed up towards; P-8s, Network or 'strategic' airlift ambitions. Given UK Govt Brexit fiasco and MOD looming shortfalls for their F35 and Sub projects, NZ would be in a strong negotiation position. If we are going to spend $1+ billion dollars I dont think buying a 60 year old design at new prices is a prudent investment no matter how venerable the product. Max payload for C130J (19t) and C130J-30 (20t) introduced 1999, cruise 348 knots. Compare to: Boeing jv'd with Embraer to produce KC390 payload 26t intro. 2019, cruise 470kn) Kawasaki produces the C-2 payload 26-37t intro.2016, cruise 480 kn, and Airbus produces the A400m - payload 37t intro.2013, cruise 422kn And have aircraft that will be costly to sustain in the near term and required to be replaced in 10 - 15 years, 20 at the outside. So definitely not value for money or bang for buck, no matter how you look at it. The C-2 and A400M don't come into it because in the NZ context they are strategic airlifters and the C-130H(NZ) replacement is for tactical airlifters. That is how the FAMC (Future Air Mobility Capability) project is structured. The B757 replacement (strategic airlift component) isn't due until around 2025 - 26 and whilst something like the C-2 or A400M would be ideal and very practical, the politicians and Treasury would most likely plumb for a converted airliner type and that is the thinking that still pervades the thoughts of the politicians. Their argument is that outsized kit like NZLAV and NH90 can travel by sea on Canterbury or the two enhance sealift vessels that they are acquiring, which is great if you don't require it in a hurry, a ship isn't deploying - think recent 3 Sqn deployment to Solomon Islands for local election support (2 NH90). , or the destination is a landlocked country - think Afghanistan. We'll just have to wait and see I think. Treasury have finally figured out that new build is more cost effective than second hand, especially with regard to purpose built military aircraft, and because of the anticipated length of service (30 - 40 years), the C-130J-30s will be new builds.
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Post by saratoga on Jun 27, 2019 21:16:24 GMT 12
Set up a go fund me page, might be the best option.
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madmark
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 78
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Post by madmark on Jun 28, 2019 23:17:48 GMT 12
Given that the RAF have been on and/or supporting some pretty high intensity ops for the last 20 years or so I'd say that their J fleet will be getting pretty tired by now.. Probably not an ideal replacement for 40 Sqn.
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Post by beagle on Jul 11, 2019 19:47:02 GMT 12
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Post by madmac on Jul 11, 2019 20:41:58 GMT 12
Probably still 2nd behind the pollies not wanting to arrive anywhere in something other than airliner.
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