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Post by machina on Jul 11, 2019 22:06:42 GMT 12
The overall situation and choices for everyone seem a bit strange. The Herc is still produced but is an old design and is limited in size. The C-17 has the capacity for strategic but is no longer produced, despite being nowhere near as old as the Herc. The A400 is new-ish but still has issues and even if it didn't it's still smaller than the C-17. What's the future of airlift?
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Post by madmac on Jul 12, 2019 9:49:35 GMT 12
Its looks pretty grim, thinking logically. Given we can't airlift LAV's or MH90's now, we are unlikely to get that capacity given current political liabilities. The pollies won't buy anything that doesn't let them arrive in style so unless we get 2 types, the A400 is out, the C2 doesn't have windows & is too rare unless the Japs offer a really good deal (buy now, pay later plus with a buy one get one free might swing it). Which leaves airliners, the Boeings would have the least logistics foot print although Boeing is probably going to stick 20%+ on any support given the Max issues), so that leaves B787 (no cargo door available), B777 (too big), B767 (2nd hand models, KC-46 still has got plenty of issues & will be pricey given program losses), B737 NG / Max (insufficient range) which leaves P-8 as the dark horse. The P8 has the range, will be already in service, cargo doors mods are available but will require some stuffing about, we would need 3 to get the lift capacity & they suffer horrible field performance.
Looking at all that I guess we get 2nd hand 767's.
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Post by ErrolC on Jul 12, 2019 10:10:29 GMT 12
On the assumption that we will be flying them many fewer hours per month than airlines, it makes sense (if we are getting airliners) to get second-hand ones. We want them to be life-expired before the support costs get expensive, the purchase price of course reflecting their remaining life. This is want we aimed for with the B757's, but the type had a shorter production life than was expected.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 12, 2019 19:10:21 GMT 12
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Post by machina on Jul 12, 2019 20:06:26 GMT 12
The C-2 and KC-390 are in their infancy and come from companies that are small fry on the world stage. Is there anything American on the horizon to replace both the Herc and the C-17? In my view only the Americans have the know-how and capacity to produce something solid in the hundreds/thousands.
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Post by beaufighter4 on Jul 12, 2019 20:42:26 GMT 12
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Post by beaufighter4 on Jul 12, 2019 21:08:11 GMT 12
How about an airbus A321NEO XLR or is that too much for the bean counters in Wellington.
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Post by madmac on Jul 12, 2019 21:36:34 GMT 12
How about an airbus A321NEO XLR or is that too much for the bean counters in Wellington. Is there a combi conversion (cargo and passengers) for the A320 series, there seems to be only two companies doing cargo conversions of A320/321 & those appear to be only Class E freighters (cargo only).
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Post by pepe on Jul 12, 2019 21:57:14 GMT 12
The C-2 and KC-390 are in their infancy and come from companies that are small fry on the world stage. Is there anything American on the horizon to replace both the Herc and the C-17? In my view only the Americans have the know-how and capacity to produce something solid in the hundreds/thousands. Just like the successful Boeing 737 Max or KC-46 Pegasus...?
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Post by machina on Jul 12, 2019 22:09:23 GMT 12
The C-2 and KC-390 are in their infancy and come from companies that are small fry on the world stage. Is there anything American on the horizon to replace both the Herc and the C-17? In my view only the Americans have the know-how and capacity to produce something solid in the hundreds/thousands. Just like the successful Boeing 737 Max or KC-46 Pegasus...? Nowhere did I even imply that the Americans never get it wrong, but how many military aircraft are as successful as either the Herc or the C-17, produced in the same numbers for multiple airforces over multiple decades, and are not American?
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Post by isc on Jul 12, 2019 22:21:01 GMT 12
We just need someone here that can sort out the 737 Max 8, and get Boeing to give us half a dozen in payment, there's one problem? solved. Just a slight diversion, does the P8 have similar flight control systems? isc
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jjt
Sergeant
Posts: 19
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Post by jjt on Jul 12, 2019 22:59:38 GMT 12
We just need someone here that can sort out the 737 Max 8, and get Boeing to give us half a dozen in payment, there's one problem? solved. Just a slight diversion, does the P8 have similar flight control systems? isc I’ve asked this question of others who are far more knowledgeable than me in that particular field and was told that the P8 is not affected by the issue that the 737MAX has had.
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Post by ErrolC on Jul 12, 2019 23:05:11 GMT 12
The KC-46 has a system similar in concept, but executed in a sensible way (needs multiple inputs, limited impact).
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Post by beegeetee on Jul 13, 2019 4:22:47 GMT 12
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Post by beegeetee on Jul 13, 2019 4:29:07 GMT 12
One note on the issues that the A400M and KC-46 are currently experiencing; we won't be getting a decision on a 757 replacement for a few years yet, so there is still time for those aircraft's problems to be fixed before it's due.
One other option (albeit an expensive one) would be to do what the Aussies did and find a couple of ex-airline A330s and get them converted to MRTT (I'd suggest the same config as the Aussies KC-30 for commonality and so we could leverage their training and maintenance setup). Large cargo capacity, large passenger capacity, VIPs can travel in comfort and you get a very capable refueling tanker we could use to extend the endurance of our C-130s and P-8s, and provide a valuable capability to our allies.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 13, 2019 9:17:51 GMT 12
we won't be getting a decision on a 757 replacement for a few years yet Correct, so we don't need to be endlessly and pointlessly discussing it like has been done already for year. I think it is time this thread went back to sleep for a few years.
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Post by nighthawknz on Jul 13, 2019 10:08:15 GMT 12
Correct, so we don't need to be endlessly and pointlessly discussing it like has been done already for year. I think it is time this thread went back to sleep for a few years. but, but.... but.... but ... ;-)
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Post by conman on Jul 13, 2019 10:23:21 GMT 12
Looks like it is powered by reverse engineered JT8D’s !
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Post by nighthawknz on Jul 13, 2019 10:35:10 GMT 12
Looks like it is powered by reverse engineered JT8D’s ! From my understanding, it has way less power and is more the size of the Embraer KC-36... but I don't know much about planes... they go woosh way way above my head... ;-) As for getting off the Chinese ... I very very much doubt that... and our allies would not like that at all...
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Post by isc on Jul 13, 2019 21:19:14 GMT 12
I was watching the news on Aljazera, seeing the Russians fly in their missile system, not sure which aircraft, don't think it was the AN 255, I only saw 4 engines. By the look of the hold on that machine, I think you would almost get a double decker bus on board, well a fleet of them actually.isc
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