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Post by luke6745 on Dec 1, 2011 1:23:13 GMT 12
I have only just discovered that each corps/regiment in the army no longer has distinctive berets. Apparently it has been like this for a while as well (I feel so stupid). Which plank thought this was a good idea? Also, why does every sash and belt have korus all through them? The red SNCO sash looks alright, but every other one just looks plain ugly! The general's belt looks especially ugly. Again. Which plank thought that was an idea? Why do the lemon-squeezers no longer have distinctive regimental puggarees? I assume it's the same reason as the berets. And finally. The black ceremonial waist belt. Black? Seriously? Why not a white one like every other sane commonwealth army. How many servicemen/women like all this? From an outsiders point of view all these changes to the uniform seem just plain stupid and obviously a result of political correctness and bean counters thinking they can save a few bob by having a single beret and belt. Exhibit A -  Exhibit B -  Exhibit C -  Now I don't mind that one -  When I came across this photo, I felt I sigh of relief. Because I now know that at least one person in the army knows what a good looking uniform is.  Not army related but still, what happened to full dress! They've ruined it! -  If anyone sees themselves in these photos, please don't be offended! I'm not venting my frustration at you! In fact, I think you do a good job with the limited resources you get! |
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Post by oggie2620 on Dec 1, 2011 3:43:39 GMT 12
Its happening in the UK too because they merge regiments that are eons old! They should leave well alone!
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Post by lesterpk on Dec 1, 2011 6:57:03 GMT 12
The last pic is the Central Band, its not the normal RNZAF 3SD uniform.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 1, 2011 8:50:31 GMT 12
The Central Band of the Royal New Zealand Air Force has always has a distinctively different uniform with all the brass trimmings.
The SAS still has a biege beret doesn't it?
Photos B and D won't open for me.
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Post by phil on Dec 1, 2011 9:18:01 GMT 12
The army lost it's berets and corp belts so long ago there probably aren't that many still serving that remember it! I'm sure it was in the late 90s.
1NZSAS still wears the sand beret and still has a blue corp belt, they seem to have quetly ignored it all. Also members of the Commandos (formerly CTAG) and the 1NZEOD SQN also get the Sand beret now, but have their own cap badge.
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Dec 1, 2011 11:14:35 GMT 12
Post by luke6745 on Dec 1, 2011 11:14:35 GMT 12
Ah. You probably have to have a facebook account to view some of the photos as I linked them from one of John Key's albums on facebook. Pic D is a drum major with the black SNCO sash and black waist belt. I do wonder though why the Central Band changed their uniform though (I think it was 1 year or 2 ago) as it looked perfectly fine in the first place. They used to have a uniform similar to the RAF central band but with a peaked cap instead of a busby. Old uniform -  And they still have corps belts in the army. But I was surprised that they had got rid of regimental berets. |
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Dec 1, 2011 13:49:05 GMT 12
Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 1, 2011 13:49:05 GMT 12
I do have a Farcebook account, so not sure what the deal is there.
As for the Central Band of the RNZAF, like many military units they perhaps have different uniforms for different occasions? It looks like they just have different jackets, and they look far more RNZAF with the open collar and ties than the 1800's stiff collar type.
They also have their own specific drill commands. On big parades with them or the now defunct RNZAF Base Wigram Band you'd get a command of Attention and behind you the bandmaster would say "Band Ready", and when we got At Ease he'd say "Band Steady". I was always waiting for "Band Go!"
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Dec 1, 2011 14:07:42 GMT 12
Post by luke6745 on Dec 1, 2011 14:07:42 GMT 12
I do have a Farcebook account, so not sure what the deal is there. As for the Central Band of the RNZAF, like many military units they perhaps have different uniforms for different occasions? It looks like they just have different jackets, and they look far more RNZAF with the open collar and ties than the 1800's stiff collar type. They also have their own specific drill commands. On big parades with them or the now defunct RNZAF Base Wigram Band you'd get a command of Attention and behind you the bandmaster would say "Band Ready", and when we got At Ease he'd say "Band Steady". I was always waiting for "Band Go!" It's a privacy thing with the photos, you need an account to view anything on facebook. 1800's stiff collar looks so much cooler!  But my point is, why get rid of perfectly good uniforms for the sake of being "with the times"? |
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Dec 1, 2011 14:23:49 GMT 12
Post by flyjoe180 on Dec 1, 2011 14:23:49 GMT 12
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Dec 1, 2011 14:59:58 GMT 12
Post by luke6745 on Dec 1, 2011 14:59:58 GMT 12
Here's an interesting uniform, RNZIR band 1965 -  Very similar to the Royal Marines..... |
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Dec 1, 2011 15:36:57 GMT 12
Post by davel on Dec 1, 2011 15:36:57 GMT 12
Corp belts and badges are very much still in use.
Personel attached to the SAS (engineers, sigs, logies) wear the beige beret but with their parent corp badge and belt instead of the winged dagger and blue belt.
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Dec 1, 2011 22:59:55 GMT 12
Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 1, 2011 22:59:55 GMT 12
That Army Band looks like Alf's Imperial Army. I wonder what became of those nutters. They used to have battles with Laird McGillicuddy's Serious party in Hamilton in the 1980's with flour bombs and cardboard swords, on Saturdays when everyone was shopping in the city!
When the Army parade here in Cambridge, they all wear slouch hats, even the CDF. I wonder why they don't wear the lemon squeezers which look cooler.
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Dec 1, 2011 23:55:24 GMT 12
Post by phil on Dec 1, 2011 23:55:24 GMT 12
An excellent thread illustrating why we have no money - we waste it all on so many diffrent uniforms! Especially the navy who have a stupid number of different types, and a summer and winter version of each. |
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Dec 2, 2011 13:05:01 GMT 12
Post by flyjoe180 on Dec 2, 2011 13:05:01 GMT 12
I suppose their destinations are more diverse and frequent?
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Dec 2, 2011 17:50:57 GMT 12
Post by luke6745 on Dec 2, 2011 17:50:57 GMT 12
I wouldn't consider it a waste of money. Wearing a dark blue uniform in the tropics isn't exactly the best idea.
Ceremonial uniforms to me, are a big part of any military, and frankly New Zealand has got it wrong. We have tried to save money when in fact by changing the uniforms, it has probably cost a lot more. In the process of trying to save money, we have ended up with uniforms which look bloody ugly. Trying to be "with the times" and bi-cultural is stupid and destroys traditions which were/are a huge part of the culture of the army and the individual regiments.
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Dec 2, 2011 18:38:28 GMT 12
Post by phil on Dec 2, 2011 18:38:28 GMT 12
I wouldn't consider it a waste of money. Wearing a dark blue uniform in the tropics isn't exactly the best idea. . But the the Navy does wear dark blue uniforms in the tropics, that's what GWD (General Working Dress) is. We also wore our air force No 3SDs in the tropics, which was a bit hot, but we managed. It was hot no matter what we were wearing. If you saw the list of all the different dress types there are across all three services you'd understand that it is a waste of money. At a time when we are losing basic benefits that have always been considered part and parcel of serving in the armed forces, we could save a fortune by rationalising the uniforms. |
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Dec 2, 2011 19:01:49 GMT 12
Post by luke6745 on Dec 2, 2011 19:01:49 GMT 12
GWD isn't woollen though. But of course I believe that uniform shouldn't be at the cost of basic benefits. Which all leads back to my point - budget cuts ruin everything that the military stands for.
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Dec 6, 2011 21:20:18 GMT 12
Post by ngatimozart on Dec 6, 2011 21:20:18 GMT 12
An excellent thread illustrating why we have no money - we waste it all on so many diffrent uniforms! Especially the navy who have a stupid number of different types, and a summer and winter version of each. Actually if you have a closer look at the RNZN uniforms you will see that they work upon a them with the blues for winter and whites for summer and tropical conditions. The white trop shirts are worn with both uniforms and variations thereof depending upon the setting and the orders. The naval uniform is not stupid as you claim but it is actually very traditional. The navy has traditions that go way back beyond that of any army regiments. That is why it is called the senior service. The naval uniform reflects some these traditions and the navy is very proud of its traditions. I am very thankful that it got rid of one uniform tradition before I joined. Up until, I believe, the mid 1970's all junior rates had to iron 7 evenly spaced horizontal creases on their trouser legs. These represented the 7 seas. Today the dress blue uniform is not worn in the tropics - it is whites. The dark blue uniform you may be referring to sounds like the old AWD (Action Working Dress) and now they have new working dress. It will probably be of cotton or similar because modern fabrics tend to melt in heat generated by fires. When I was at sea we all had to wear cotton underwear because of the heat properties of the modern fabrics and the possibility of them melting on certain sensitive areas. |
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Dec 7, 2011 10:00:41 GMT 12
Post by flyjoe180 on Dec 7, 2011 10:00:41 GMT 12
How much would NZDF spend per year on uniforms? I read sometime ago that the money 'saved' from not operating the Skyhawks was the equivalent of two weeks of benefit payments in NZ. How economically effective would the rationalisation of uniforms really be, bearing in mind that the loss of tradition and possibly force/unit identifications would be great, never to be replaced. Already NZDF would have saved on uniforms, having 'civilianised' (I dislike that term a lot) many roles recently.
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Dec 7, 2011 12:41:07 GMT 12
Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 7, 2011 12:41:07 GMT 12
They could make uniforms last much longer by having regular mufti days. If everyone paid $2 on a mufti day, they could raise the Defence Budget with the income. ;D
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