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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 6, 2011 22:30:51 GMT 12
To answer your question I think that most people who support CMT genuinely don't usually give the RNZAF or Navy any thought and assume the CMT trainees will be running around Waiouru being grunts.
I agree that in the current state of the NZDF it would not work, the Government would have to inject massive amounts of funding just to house them, and to train them, and to find them something practical to do.
However on the flip side it might well be the best thing there is for society. I spent today in Hamilton and the number of dropkicks and boguns milling around there in Garden Place and other areas of the city centre are on the up. All of them look like they would beefit from a few good runs with a Sgt Major chasing them.
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Post by phil on Dec 6, 2011 22:38:42 GMT 12
I don't think it would necessarily be a good thing for the military (though it is in some aspects), I think CMT would benefit society. Military training would teach discipline and life skills to those who aren't proficient in those areas. You wouldn't put them into technical trades unless they had something to offer and I'm not suggesting we force them into regular service but only put them into the territorials. I'm talking Infantry, artillery, crewman, etc. It should be about maximum 3 years service but the option to continue should they please. And at the end of their 3 years give them $5000 or so towards their student loans/tertiary education to say thanks. So it would mainly affect the army. Presumably we'd pay them while they were serving, and then give them $5K after three years? Hard to know why anyone would want to join the RF in that case - sign me up, I'd love to have got a $5k cash bonus after three years. Would be better than a medal... But in all seriousness, would you post them as part of existing units, or would there be special CMT companies/batteries/Squadrons etc? Would you then need RF cadres to run them, and if so where would those personnel come from? |
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Post by phil on Dec 6, 2011 22:45:24 GMT 12
To answer your question I think that most people who support CMT genuinely don't usually give the RNZAF or Navy any thought and assume the CMT trainees will be running around Waiouru being grunts. I agree that in the current state of the NZDF it would not work, the Government would have to inject massive amounts of funding just to house them, and to train them, and to find them something practical to do. However on the flip side it might well be the best thing there is for society. I spent today in Hamilton and the number of dropkicks and boguns milling around there in Garden Place and other areas of the city centre are on the up. All of them look like they would beefit from a few good runs with a Sgt Major chasing them. I agree, the people who think CMT is a good idea are, in my experience, the same people who can't actually answer questions like 'Do you actually know what the military does?' and who seem to think the army spends it's days doing nothing more than marching around the parade square and the odd bit of PT. Which is why I was surprised that people on this forum, who are usually the ones with a better idea of the realities of what we do, might be in favour of it. And if they are in favour of it, what their reasoning is, given that they are better informed (than the average joe public). |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 6, 2011 22:53:50 GMT 12
I have talked with some guys from Denmark who told me they have CMT there, everyone able bodied at 18 does a year or was it 18 months. They have the choice of all three services, Army Navy and Air Force. If they are anti-military they can go into the Fire Service or Ambulance service. They were 20 or so and very well rounded, polite, worldly, disciplined people, and all the Danes I have met have been that way. They are a hugely successful country compared to most small nations. Maybe, just maybe, the CMT does them good. I thought that the coice of spending it helping others in an emergency service was a good idea. I asked if people rebel against it and try to get out of it. They said very few eer do as they all know from a young age it's coming and most join up wit their school mates so it's no hardship to them.
Mind you, Israel also has CMT and they are one of the world's most f****d up countries.
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Post by baronbeeza on Dec 6, 2011 23:40:23 GMT 12
You guys have all missed the point.
I was correct and Dave will close the thread.
We have a chap who was No 4 on the list and within a week found himself elected to be an MP.
He has been reported, yes I know... anyway he seems to have come out with some unconventional statements.
NZ First has nothing to do with this and CMT. Winston was surprised and said that Richard was entitled to his personal views.
So we have a guy who has never been near Parliament, being reported, about a matter that may not even be party policy. How coherent is this party popping out of obscurity ?
Did you note how long he has been a party member ?
Two pages....
I just missed out on the ballot when we did have CMT, I have been in the military and have also spent a lot of time in Europe and seen how popular CMT really is.
It ain't going to happen.
Next topic...
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Post by luke6745 on Dec 6, 2011 23:47:43 GMT 12
If NZ had neighbours like Israel has, we would be just a f***ed up.
Honestly, I wouldn't know how it would work. I just had a few ideas I thought I might throw about. I had a read of the Danish CMT policy and I think that could work in NZ.
From Wikipedia -
As described in the Constitution of Denmark, ยง 81, Denmark has mandatory service for all able men. Normal service is four months, and is normally served by men in the age of eighteen to twenty-seven. Some special services will take longer. Danish men will typically receive a letter around the time of their 18th birthday, asking when their current education (if any) ends, and some time later, depending on when, they will receive a notice on when to attend to the draft office to be tested physically and psychologically. However, some may be deemed unfit for service and not be required to show up.
Even if a person is deemed fit, or partially fit for service, he may avoid having to serve if he draws a high enough number randomly. Persons who are deemed partly fit for service will however be placed lower than those who are deemed fit for service, and therefore have a very low chance of being drafted. Men deemed fit can be called upon for service until their 50th birthday in case of national crisis, regardless of whether normal conscription has been served. This right is very rarely exercised by Danish authorities.
Conscientious objectors can choose to instead serve six months in a non-military position, for example in Beredskabsstyrelsen (dealing with non-military disasters like fires, flood, pollution, etc.) or foreign aid work in a third world country.
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Post by Calum on Dec 7, 2011 13:54:44 GMT 12
My question is no different to any other about the directions people think the NZDF should take, like reintroducing an air combat force - a topic that seems to constantly pop up without threat of thread closure. I fail to see any difference between discussion on reintroducing that part of our defence history and reintroducing CMT. I'm genuinly interested in why people think CMT would be a good idea, and how they envisage it would work? I agree Phil, its terrible idea for the military. They end up with lots of people who don't want to be there, and they (military) then get to waste time and money on them. |
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Dec 10, 2011 13:15:47 GMT 12
I see Parliament now has a deaf MP following the final general election results being released.
So I suppose sign-language interpreters will be a new accessory in the debating chamber.
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Post by luke6745 on Dec 10, 2011 14:32:43 GMT 12
So how much is that going to cost in interpreters? $100000?
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Post by ErrolC on Dec 10, 2011 14:52:20 GMT 12
I see Parliament now has a deaf MP following the final general election results being released. So I suppose sign-language interpreters will be a new accessory in the debating chamber. As was wheelchair access some years ago I assume. Did you have a point that relates to aviation or military matters? |
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Dec 10, 2011 20:37:47 GMT 12
I see Parliament now has a deaf MP following the final general election results being released. So I suppose sign-language interpreters will be a new accessory in the debating chamber. As was wheelchair access some years ago I assume. Did you have a point that relates to aviation or military matters? Errrrrr....a deaf MP will be voting on legislation pertaining to aviation and military matters!  |
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