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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 6, 2012 12:33:57 GMT 12
I concede also Shorty. I had to tilt also.
So who is he ? It should not be too difficult to work out. I would think the chances are he is RNZAF, fully accepting that the patch is an international one.
We have a Pilot and Nav in the shot already.... perhaps we should try and date the photo first.
Who is the Nav ? Hey man, a pretty distinctive and cool dude. The flares make it about 73 or 74. Possibly 1972 but certainly not early in the conflict.
The RNZAF A-4's would have been online for a good few years but not that many would have been associated with them at that time.
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furd
Flight Lieutenant
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Post by furd on Jan 6, 2012 14:03:37 GMT 12
Well spotted Sam, sure does. The FAC pilots were mostly or all strike pilots from the Canberra/Skyhawk squadron. Did the RNZAF medical team have a doctor killed in Vietnam? I was selling poppies one Poppy Day and a woman approached me and said scathingly she'd never give money to the RSA. I asked her why and she told me her husband had been a doctor in Vietnam and he was shot and killed. She was left with five children to raise on their farm and after a few years she was really struggling, and someone told her to go to see the RSA Welfare Officer here in Cambridge. She reluctantly did so. She said the guy (I don't know who he was) asked what she wanted, and she explained her husband had been a doctor in Vietnam and was killed there, she had five young kids and was broke and needed assistance. Apparently the prig at the RSA scoffed "Vietnam? That wasn't a real war, not like I was in. We can't help you." She swore at him and never went back, she said. After she'd got that off her chest she was much nicer to me. I felt terrible listening to that story, I know the guys at our RSA office would never act like that nowadays. Poor woman. I wonder if the doctor was RNZAF or if he was Army. She was clearly a kiwi and I assume he was too. Dave, the only member of the RNZAF to be killed in Vietnam was Sgt G.S. Watt of the svcs med team. He was killed by a land mine on 1 March 1970. He was in fact the only NZ'r from both NZDF and civilian medical personnel in Vietnam to lose his life during the conflict. Your encounter with the woman in Cambridge does not ring true. As a RSA Welfare Officer I can assure you no one would have been turned away in the manner you have discribed if it was a genuine approach. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 6, 2012 14:57:48 GMT 12
Well if it is true, that must be the man. She did not specify the date but I got the impression her approach to the RSA was in the mid to late 1970's. I know there were some back then who were pretty pompus, he may have been a WWI veteran rather than WWII back then of course. I have talked with a few locals about it and they couldn't think who it was. The Welfare Officer here around that time would have been Tommy Hampshire who was an ex-Brit WWI Air Force veteran, but people I asked reckoned he was the nicest man in the world and they're sure it must have been someone else she saw. maybe the person in the office when she rocked up wasn't actually the welfare man. Who knows.
She seemed pretty genuine to me and it seemed like the oddest story to come out with if it was made up. I really felt sorry for her. The funny thing was too, after I chatted to her for a bit she actually put a couple of dollars into the pot. I don't know if she meant to or if it was a subconscious thing. But she parted on much better terms with me than when she first approached me.
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Post by shorty on Jan 6, 2012 15:46:53 GMT 12
That book is interesting in that No. 14 Squadron Canberras went to Vietnam in the earlier days of the war, and that a few of that squadron's pilots got posted there to observe US B-57's. ! That sounds a bit dubious, would like to see more about it. I was on 14 1968/69 when Viet Nam was going strong and I never heard any reports like that. There were rumours that we were to go there from Singapore and we were all jabbed up and ready, but it wasn't on politically. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 6, 2012 16:46:25 GMT 12
Thanks Shorty, I thought it was a new one on me too. Perhaps they sent individuals rather then groups?
A B-57 is a US-built Canberra, right?
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 6, 2012 17:12:20 GMT 12
Is there some confusion here ?
Page 184 of the book mentions that the Squadrons hoped to get involved but the politicians were having none of it.
It did mention that a few Canberras visited the country but mainly on communication type business.
It seemed the author was saying that the Govt did not want to get involved in the air war whatsoever.
It seems they all got a shock to see the Army Officers flying American helicopters. Good old Kiwi stuff... keep quiet, keep low.. and just get the job done.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 6, 2012 17:58:10 GMT 12
Kevin, look mid-page on page 184, it says some of No. 14 Squadron's officers did go to Vietnam aboard the Frighters and observed the B-57 operations, and one of our Canberras was flown into South Vietnam where they made a comparison with a B-57. That is what I was referring to.
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Post by ngatimozart on Jan 6, 2012 18:58:51 GMT 12
I can't remember the guys name but when I was at Shelly Bay & Def HQ 1979 - 81 there was a pommy guy there who was an RNZAF medic in the NZ Services medical team in Nam around 1967. In 1979 he was a Flt Lt Medic and his first name was Tom. He had quite a bit of colour Super 8mm footage of his time in Nam which he showed us I think once. He said the Team was not far from where the US had its largest helo operating base in Nam. Sorry I can't remember his last name but hopefully it will jog someones memory because that footage would be priceless in historical terms.
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Post by shorty on Jan 6, 2012 20:40:56 GMT 12
Kevin, look mid-page on page 184, it says some of No. 14 Squadron's officers did go to Vietnam aboard the Frighters and observed the B-57 operations, and one of our Canberras was flown into South Vietnam where they made a comparison with a B-57. That is what I was referring to. I've not seen the book but that makes more sense, I'd guess that maybe they went up on a "jolly" and had a look around, it's also possible that the Canberra trip was a "Lone Ranger" and the crew got to talk shop with the B-57 guys. In fact one would be suprised if they didn't! |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 6, 2012 20:53:19 GMT 12
The book is linked on the previous page, it is the link to the online book by Ian McGibbon (the typical Government historian who writes a book on NZ's involvement in Vietnam and devotes just three pages at best to the RNZAF...)
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 6, 2012 21:14:31 GMT 12
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Post by vansvilla on Sept 21, 2012 14:39:41 GMT 12
The pilot reminds me a lot of Don Mcalistair, was Co 41Sqn in the early 70's.
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Post by bobajob on Sept 21, 2012 22:13:05 GMT 12
"The bloke with the handbag and the ice cream man hat doesn't look to be kiwi, we never had hats like that did we? " This BLOKE was a engine or airframe fitter on 41sqn during my time there July1972 to July1974, the hat was a light blue lightweight cotton equivalent of the regular dark blue one we wore in NZ. I agree with vansvilla re the CO 41sqn. 50% sure. The person in the flying suit with the much discussed patch is also a slightly familiar face too from the same squadron maybe. As with most squadron it was a common practice to send 1 or 2 groundies on the regular run up into Vietnam. I went on one such trip. we touched down in Saigon loaded some people and freight up to Qu Non? spelling and then back to Saigon for the night. A quick trip to the market for the Golfers to buy Elephant hide golf bags, then back to the hotel to be locked in for curfew. Did not see a lot of anywhere really, other than long lines of bomb craters from the B52's on the way there, back and everywhere in between.
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Post by bobajob on Sept 21, 2012 22:31:27 GMT 12
The first link on page 1 of this thread NZ History online VietnamWar.govt.nz has the following Description
Quote "The crew of a B170 Bristol Freighter from 41 Squadron RNZAF talk with members of the New Zealand Surgical Team at Qui Nhon hospital.
Picture shows Dr Jack Enwright and Dr Peter Milsom (left of picture) discussing a patient in the emergency room. Lab Technician Graham Paltridge (right) is explaining the situation to the B170 crew. The officer in the centre with the wings on his flight suit is Squadron Leader Don McAlister, OC of 41 Squadron." Unquote.
Note to Dave Homewood: if this post breaches any copy-right or what ever please don't hesitate to remove it
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Post by phil82 on Sept 22, 2012 4:37:20 GMT 12
Well spotted Sam, sure does. The FAC pilots were mostly or all strike pilots from the Canberra/Skyhawk squadron. Did the RNZAF medical team have a doctor killed in Vietnam? I was selling poppies one Poppy Day and a woman approached me and said scathingly she'd never give money to the RSA. I asked her why and she told me her husband had been a doctor in Vietnam and he was shot and killed. She was left with five children to raise on their farm and after a few years she was really struggling, and someone told her to go to see the RSA Welfare Officer here in Cambridge. She reluctantly did so. She said the guy (I don't know who he was) asked what she wanted, and she explained her husband had been a doctor in Vietnam and was killed there, she had five young kids and was broke and needed assistance. Apparently the prig at the RSA scoffed "Vietnam? That wasn't a real war, not like I was in. We can't help you." She swore at him and never went back, she said. After she'd got that off her chest she was much nicer to me. I felt terrible listening to that story, I know the guys at our RSA office would never act like that nowadays. Poor woman. I wonder if the doctor was RNZAF or if he was Army. She was clearly a kiwi and I assume he was too. The NZ Medical team [it wasn't solely RNZAF] didn't lose a Doctor in Vietnam, [or anywhere else for that matter!], but they did lose an RNZAF Medic , Gordon Watt , whom I knew well,in a mine explosion. An RNZAF Doctor, Sqn Ldr Kelvin Bremner, was injured in a vehicle accident, but he's still around. I would seriously question the veracity of that story! Gordon Watt was a Christchurch man, man and had previously been a GSI at Wigram, and definitely didn't have five kids! The list of FAC pilots should include Sqn Ldr Geoff Wallingford. One of those listed, Flt Lt Punch Patterson won a DFC flying an RAAF 9 Sqn Iroquois. |
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Post by phil82 on Sept 22, 2012 4:44:23 GMT 12
I can't remember the guys name but when I was at Shelly Bay & Def HQ 1979 - 81 there was a pommy guy there who was an RNZAF medic in the NZ Services medical team in Nam around 1967. In 1979 he was a Flt Lt Medic and his first name was Tom. He had quite a bit of colour Super 8mm footage of his time in Nam which he showed us I think once. He said the Team was not far from where the US had its largest helo operating base in Nam. Sorry I can't remember his last name but hopefully it will jog someones memory because that footage would be priceless in historical terms. That would be Tom The Pom Palmer, a lovely guy! I was on a BA flight from LA to Heathrow once and went to find a drink in the wee small hours and found Tom perched at the Liquor-locker with a hostess, so I joined him for what turned out to be a very painless flight! |
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Post by phil82 on Sept 22, 2012 4:48:59 GMT 12
Kevin, look mid-page on page 184, it says some of No. 14 Squadron's officers did go to Vietnam aboard the Frighters and observed the B-57 operations, and one of our Canberras was flown into South Vietnam where they made a comparison with a B-57. That is what I was referring to. I've not seen the book but that makes more sense, I'd guess that maybe they went up on a "jolly" and had a look around, it's also possible that the Canberra trip was a "Lone Ranger" and the crew got to talk shop with the B-57 guys. In fact one would be suprised if they didn't! I'm fairly certain the nearest an RNZAF Canberra got to Vietnam was the USAF Base at Korat, which was in Thailand! It was almost buried there but for the efforst of our wonderful lineys!  |
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Post by vansvilla on Sept 22, 2012 18:18:07 GMT 12
Thinking some more about it, I believe that the Nav with arms folded is Familton,
In 74 I think it was, a group of groundies went to the hospital for a week and repainted it.
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Post by davidd on Sept 23, 2012 11:21:46 GMT 12
One of the RNZAF "Medics" to serve with No. 1 Services Medical Team in Vietnam, was Warrant Officer "Bob" Palmer; I have seen an excellent photo of him in that country ( a really nice informal shot) with the whole team. After he left the RNZAF he was in charge of the Blood Donation Service in Christchurch for many years - I was (and still am) a donor, and he signed the certificate recognizing my 50 donations. His daughter Susan is the wife of a very good friend of mine. Bob died many years ago, still in his 50s I think.
David D
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Post by davidd on Sept 23, 2012 11:26:29 GMT 12
I wonder if that Treka (spelling?) in reply # 2 post is till sputtering around somewhere in the Indo-China area, a little trail of exhaust smoke trailing behind it and hanging in the humid air? Somehow I doubt it!
David D
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