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Post by corsair67 on Nov 29, 2005 10:02:31 GMT 12
It'd be interesting to find out if Aussie has bought some of the NZ Army ones. The ADF currently has a program underway to upgrade about 350 of the M113A1s, which involves addition of a new turret, powerpack, drivetrain and suspension, upgraded armour, and 271 of these will also incorporate a cabin stretch.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 29, 2005 16:22:05 GMT 12
As I said before, the way I recall it, the Unimogs were bought in such large nmubers because a very cheao deal came up. I guess they were given a budget, and then thought they'd better spend it all otherwise they won't get as much next time (that's how Govt works). It was a good decision to get a lot of attrition vehicles as there have been many written off over the years, as happens with any army vehicle. Also the RNZAF and Navy have benefitted from the deal too in getting Unimogs for their use.
I am amazed to find those WWII-Grman-looking-and-sounding Pinzgauer trucks are British made. Wow! Sounds like the Army has made a good choice then from what Bruce was told.
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Post by corsair67 on Nov 29, 2005 16:34:02 GMT 12
Yep, the old 'spend-it-or-lose-it' mentality in Govt Dept budgets strikes again! The NZDF has got a lot of good use out of the Unimogs, and I think that overall they have certainly got their money's worth out of them. I guess it's not so weird to find the Pinzgauers are Austrian designed/English built, because Europe is one big happy family now under the EU!  |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 29, 2005 18:40:20 GMT 12
Ah, Austrian designed. I thought Steve meant Australian designed in his post! I thought it had a tutonic background.
Exercise Silver Warrior just featured on Campbell Live. I have to say, despite what people say about them, those LAV's actually look pretty cool. At least they have proper turrets with big guns on, And the camera was riding inside with the reporter - they look pretty comfortable.
They may turn out to be ok in the end, despite the media beat up. Time will tell. We all know the media makes mountains from molehills.
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Post by corsair67 on Nov 29, 2005 18:59:35 GMT 12
Yeah LAVS are pretty cool; and I wouldn't want to stick my head up in front of one when the 25mm cannon is 'switched to on'!
I have had a look at them when they have been on display at various events over here, and they seem pretty compact inside. I'm not sure how you squeeze everyone in, but it must work somehow.
I think they are probably a good vehicle for the NZDF to have, but whether the Army needed 105 is another matter that will no doubt be debated for quite some time.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 29, 2005 19:08:04 GMT 12
They have created a new motorised division, or whatever they call it, around the LAV, so perhaps it's whatever the standard number is for such a unit, and then additional standard nmuber of attritional vehicles?
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Post by steve on Nov 29, 2005 23:05:55 GMT 12
105 Lavs were purchased to make the two regular Batallions motorised ...basically 50 lavs per battalion and some special comms units. ie for the ... 1st and 2/1st batt..also the theory is offcourse based around NZ being able to dispatch a motorised armoured batallion any where in the world for UN duties without being an expanded company attached to anothers country's structure... as the battalion 600- 800 soldiers is the smallest recognied international force . The concept is very pro army....and i accept that the nos are about right and yes Helen has done right for the army...howver I believe we should be concentrating on regional defence within an ANZAC or dear I say it ANZUS rather than the useless corrupt UN...
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Post by steve on Nov 29, 2005 23:24:03 GMT 12
Pinzgauers...I understand from army news that they were purchased only to replace the Rovers as a L.O.V. still a little unclear however lovs and lavs! As regards to he M113s 9 are to be retained for museum and compartative training...yeap the joy ride for the kids...great for future recruits...Maybe the airforce should have donated a couple of a4s to the warbirds without the K upgrade kit??
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 1, 2005 13:27:42 GMT 12
Here's another interesting update on the happenings with the Iroquois in Steel Talon From www.bayofplentytimes.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyid=3662780&thesection=localnews&thesubsection=&thesecondsubsection=City chopper chase part of RNZAF exercise 29.11.2005 By PAUL DYKES If you're lying in bed tonight and hear a loud thumping noise vibrating through the air you can relax: the Bay is not under attack. But getting around Tauranga fast without being detected is what the pilots of up to six Iroquois helicopters from No 3 Squadron RNZAF will be aiming to do tonight. The helicopter pilots will simulate battle conditions to get to Port of Tauranga from various bases, arriving together on time and undetected by "enemy" radar. Tauranga people, however, will probably be able to hear them loud and clear. Danielle Coe from Defence public relations said the helicopters would be coming in low and fast, practising flying in formation. "They will be in a combat environment, and have to get in and out as fast as possible. They also have to get their timings right." The 160 aircrew involved are taking part in their annual exercise, this time called Exercise Steel Talon. She said the Iroquois would be armed with at least one machine gun, but no live ammunition or explosives would be fired during the exercise over Tauranga. Steel Talon is a tactical flying exercise designed to train aircrew to operate in a multi-aircraft environment. The helicopters will be in Western Bay air space from 8pm to 2am tonight, for just the one night. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 1, 2005 13:28:25 GMT 12
And...
Tactical Flying in Tauranga
Monday, 28 November 2005, 11:35 am
Press Release: New Zealand Defence Force
28 November 2005
Tactical Flying in Tauranga
Up to six Air Force Iroquois helicopters will be taking part in night flying operations in Tauranga during the night of 29-30 November.
The helicopters and crew are taking part in Exercise Steel Talon. The Iroquois, from No. 3 Squadron based at RNZAF Base Ohakea will be operating from the Port of Tauranga between the hours of 8pm to 2am.
Steel Talon is a tactical flying exercise designed to train aircrew to operate in a multi aircraft environment.
Up to 160 personnel have been taking part in the Exercise, which began on 21 November.
ENDS
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Post by corsair67 on Dec 1, 2005 18:03:48 GMT 12
Gee, it would have been great to be in Tauranga the other night; unless you were a Vietnam vet!
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Post by Bruce on Dec 2, 2005 9:01:47 GMT 12
...wokka wokka wokka wokka wokka....... ;D
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Post by Calum on Dec 3, 2005 21:11:30 GMT 12
I heard the other week the M113s were sold to somewhere in Australia where they will be upgraded - Surely the aussies arent going to get them!  some have been kept at Waiouru museum (6 I think) in operating condition to offer "tank rides" for visitors. Re number of vehicles - I reckon that defence HQ has a random number generator to work out force requirements....  No news here that the ADF wants the NZ M113's. |
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Post by DragonflyDH90 on Dec 4, 2005 9:46:26 GMT 12
In answer to your above comment Chris, it depends what round they are using.
The Glock used by the Police is pretty much exclusively 9mm which is quite a low energy round, it has poor penetration and therefore has less chance of causing extra casualties if it misses the target ie. going through walls, cars, several people etc etc.
Not sure what round the Army use in their P226 (probably 9mm also and therefore same hitting power) but they were designed to take 9mm, .40 S&W and .357 with a reciever change.
I have used both weapons and the Sig in .40 S&W is particularly nice to handle.
Sorry for hijacking the thread also.
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Post by turboNZ on Dec 4, 2005 17:14:16 GMT 12
Thanks for the info, Ryan. |
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Post by dpdouglas on Dec 20, 2005 1:30:06 GMT 12
Ah Yes Exercise Steel Talon. 800 soldiers , 251 military Vehicles, 7 iroqouis helicopters and 160 of 3 squadrons personnel taking part.what a field day if this was america iraq would have a great chance of terrorism if they only knew how to operate a computer properly.
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Post by Phil on Jan 23, 2006 17:49:41 GMT 12
The Pinz is only replacing the rovers, it is a pretty small vehicle and does not replace the mogs.
Glocks vs Sigs - they are almost identical as far as 'hitting power' goes, assuming you fire the same 9mm ammo throught them. The Sig is a military pistol, and as such is fairly over engineered and chunky. The Glock is designed for Police/civilian markets and is not considered as rugged or grunt proof. As an asside, the RNZAF has just replaced it's 1969 vintage L9A1 Brownings with Sigs, they arrive in Woodbourne this week.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 23, 2006 19:03:11 GMT 12
Cheers for that info Phil.
Feel free to join up and become a full member of the forum, it seems like you'd fit in well here.
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some have been kept at Waiouru museum (6 I think) in operating condition to offer "tank rides" for visitors. 
