Oops, a good point. I did not see any mention of that in the reading. A terrible assumption on my part. That would certainly make things difficult for them. I stand to be corrected there as it would have made navigation so much easier for them. So did these guys fly about in cloud with no navigation aids as such. They were in cloud at 5000 feet.... I would be wanting to know exactly where I was in that case. I guess it is possible things were just done differently back then. I think I would be wrong about the ADF so I apologise for misleading.
Well, they found the Titanic and the Bismark, so maybe someday someone will find 'Tiny' Barstow and NZ5517.
Yes, that they did. Indeed they found the Bismarck twice, after misplacing it the first time around.
Finding the missing Corsair by ground and air searches will be extremely difficult, - at least by conventional visual means. Times is not making things any easier and we have had over 60 years of searching to date. I guess the problem is also the uncertainty of whether it is actually in the search area.
If it is to be found from this point onwards I can only imagine some form of technology will need to be brought into play. My thinking is that the mineral exploration guys may become the best placed to find it.
Am I correct in thinking that Fugro, or someone, had an aircraft in the area not so long ago. The raw data from the aircraft has to be processed and analysed, if it is not what they are looking for then it will be simply overlooked.
Some of these overseas companies may need a reminder that an anomaly in their data in an otherwise remote region could be of significance. More-so in history than mineral wealth though.
I have a copy of "Wreckage Case Study NZ5517" from the RNZAF Flight Safety Officer which runs out to 10 pages and includes copies of affadavits , Police reports and a copy of the report from the Senior Flying Control Officer, Rongotai to Air Department on the search. They sure covered a lot of territory and makes interesting reading. Most of the searching was done by a DH-89B which spent 8 hours and 35 minutes over the search area over two days (27th and 28th November) . What does confuse me is that this memo is dated 7 Dec 1945. Unless it was a typo and should have been 1944 which would make much more sense.
If there is a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven is that an indication as to the expected traffic flows?
Post by baronbeeza on Mar 27, 2012 18:19:48 GMT 12
Tonight's Westport News By Kim Fulton If locals’ suspicions are correct, Buller may be about to rewrite New Zealand aviation history. Readers have been providing their theories since The News ran a story last week about the wreck of a plane found near Chatterbox Stream in the Nikau area. The plane was thought to be the Corsair NZ5517, which disappeared 68 years ago on its way to Christchurch from Ardmore via Westport. Since the story, Bob Rose has told The News he remembered a lady from the Mokihinui area telling him she had heard a plane go down in the area in 1928. She had thought they were under attack at the time. Mr Rose pointed out a chapter in John King’s book Aviation Accidents and Disasters, which discusses a plane that disappeared on its way to Wellington from Australia carrying pilots John Moncrieff and George Hood. The plane was the Aotearoa and the pilots were making the first attempt to fly across the Tasman Sea. Mr Rose had since heard reports of a plane in the bush halfway between Chatterbox Stream and Brewery Stream. Nelson man Kevin Lawrie said he was brought up around Nikau and lived there for 23 years. He said a man named Harry Radcliff had a farm in the area and had also heard an aeroplane that was coming in from the sea go down in 1928. “He always said to me there was a plane in there,” he said. Mr Radcliff had thought the plane had crashed around the Mokihinui area near Brewery Stream but despite looking extensively had never found it. Dan Moloney also suggested the plane could be the Aotearoa and pointed to a section of the book Missing, by Chris Rudge. This book said the Southern Cross crossed the Tasman on September 11, 1928 with Australian Charles Kingsford Smith and three crew members. While that was the first plane to successfully cross the Tasman, Rudge said the possibility that Moncrieff and Hood made it across beforehand could not be ruled out. When contacted, Mr Rudge said it would be huge news if the plane had been found in Buller. “It changes history. It would be the most significant find in aviation history in New Zealand.” He said there was no doubt that the plane flew close to Cape Farewell. If the plane reached New Zealand it would have been just before sunset and the weather would have been good. He thought it would have been unlikely for the plane to have gone down in the bush, having successfully reached New Zealand, but it was entirely possible. He said the Corsair, on the other hand, was almost certainly somewhere on land. While Mr Rudge preferred to work on likely scenarios, he said it was important to keep an open mind and know that anything was possible. He said there had been other instances where aircraft or parts had ended up in unexpected places. He said somebody should now identify the plane. If it turned out to be the Aotearoa it would be breaking news around the world. Gavin Grimmer, who runs a website called Find Lost Aircraft, thought if the plane found in the Nikau area turned out to have a radial engine, then it would more likely be the Aotearoa than the Corsair. He didn’t think the Corsair would have crashed in that area as it would have been in quite clear air. By Mr Grimmer’s calculations the last transmission made by the Aotearoa was around the Golden Bay area but he said its location was anyone’s guess. He thought tiredness might have been the demise of Hood and Moncrieff. They hadn’t slept for 20 hours before the flight and they had a further 15 hours to travel without sleep. Their radio transmissions had also begun to get out of sequence toward the end of their flight, which might have been the result of their sleep deprivation. Mr Grimmer said if the Nikau plane didn’t have a radial engine there were other explanations as to what it could be. He said it could be a home-built aeroplane or a JATO rocket, which sometimes dropped off planes as they were taking off. Westport man Glen Palmer alerted The News to the plane wreck, which was first seen by Nikau man Merv Clarke 25 years ago. Mr Clarke’s son had since found remains of a plane in a similar area. Mr Clarke planned on making another trip to the site to look for the plane. Mr Palmer said he had mentioned the find to police who were thinking of doing some search and rescue training in the area
Last Edit: Mar 27, 2012 18:48:24 GMT 12 by baronbeeza
16 Squadron returned from Espiritu Santos on the 22nd of September 1944, and the Squadron reformed at Ardmore on the 16th of October 1944.
At the first Court of Inquiry, Reynolds was only asked 7 questions. During the second sitting of the Court of Inquiry on 15 December 1944, Reynolds was merely asked as to the display location of "Flight Rules" in the Flying Control building.
The Wing Commander, Director of Operations (G.H.M. Pirie) started down the correct road, when he stated (quote) "On arrival, however, at Woodbourne, for some reason best known to himself the leader of the formation decides to contravene orders and to proceed without reference to Flying Control and without any due cause to Westport, where he proceeds to circle the town for five minutes" (unquote)
If the Court of Inquiry had picked up on this and asked "What was the hometown of the leader of the flight", they would have been told "Westport". It would then have been crystal clear why the flight went via Westport. It added up to "Doing the hometown beat-up".
The woman in the photograph? The leader of the flight married her in 1947.
Post by baronbeeza on Apr 28, 2012 19:33:08 GMT 12
Another first time poster. Welcome to the forum.
I would not be placing too much emphasis on the hometown of the Flight Leader. It would have been very well known, certainly by the time of the Inquiry which was 4 weeks after the event.
I am not sure who has done time but I sure all those that have will agree that Mess talk covers most topics, many a beer would have been consumed talking about this back in the day.
A Court of Inquiry would have been convened into the loss of the pilot and his aircraft. The probable reasons why the flight went via Westport would have been well known, well as least as far as it being Bob's hometown. They were all going to their homes for the weekend anyway, that was why the flight was authorised in the first place.
The recorded events of any Formal Investigation or Court would contain material in a form being worthy and in appropriate language. It would not necessarily be a blow by blow account.
As for "Doing the hometown beat-up".... yes, that would be a natural assumption. I guess many here would imagine such as being a series of high speed passes with perhaps some zoom climbs etc. The modern Press would manage words such as plunging, swooping, perhaps even screaming and roaring. The media at the time was very restrained, I forget the exact wording but I did see the newspaper reports. Circling was the word I remember. I was not there on the day (BMT) but I know many who were. Given that it was Armistice Day and the flight arrived a little early, at a few minutes prior to 11 am, it may well be that any display was a little milder.
Do you know Courthouse ? It has been a while since his one and only post.
Last Edit: Apr 29, 2012 11:26:10 GMT 12 by baronbeeza
Post by baronbeeza on Apr 29, 2012 14:57:29 GMT 12
Not that I know of Dave. Glen Palmer has been covering many inquiries since the newspaper article. As far as I am aware there has been talk of more sightings , - nothing in the way of solid evidence though yet. I should ask a few questions of him....I will report back.
Post by corsair5517 on Aug 31, 2012 0:25:10 GMT 12
There were so many stories about this a/c when I first got involved with looking for it.... the blokes I went into the New Creek area with were told some cracking yarns about a flying boot on a rock in the middle of a creek found some years after the crash; about how the aircraft was in 2 major pieces; about how there was a skeleton with a broken leg in what was thought to be air force kit some way from any visible crash site.... the list goes on! The locals we spoke to - who are now dead or incommunicado - became very cagey when we leaned in and listened hard, presumably because there was an awful lot of simmering rivalry in there over gold claims or dope plots. One bloke even promised to take us to the wreck if the Air Force took us all in on a helo; the Air Force - understandably when this guy wouldn't elucidate any further! - declined his offer and I am left wondering if he really knew something; he certainly described what could only be an F4U quite unprompted.... I only went in twice looking, and watched as the Army and Air Force did a joint op., ostensibly for training in the area, with a full work up on what they might find. It is tiger country and I'm too old and too fat to be wandering around in there now, so it gladdens my heart to see others taking up the search, though I feel that the only way it will ever be found is when someone actually stands on it! I still have all of my maps and stuff from the searches we did, and transcripts of the witness statements etc.; also went and had a yarn with Bob Reynolds which was a very odd experience; I got the feeling that there was something he was keeping back, but we'll never know now... Nice fella, but very guarded....
This may need a new thread of it's own if this story develops. The question was asked here though and my search didn't reveal any other discussion on the matter.
I listen to The Sound radio station. Music is great but the 'news' casts are abysmal. They will mention something obscure and then never refer to it again. If you are only half listening in the first place it leaves you wondering what it was all about. Yesterday I heard mention of aircraft wreckage being found near Karamea.
I had to do a Google to find out what it could have been about and came upon this. Gavin will be the man and he may want to start a new thread. In the meantime I will post this.
Aviation enthusiasts hope that an engine once spotted on a bluff south of Karamea may belong to the lost plane Aotearoa, a discovery that would change history if confirmed.
Nelson aviation buff Andrew Mackie and his Hastings counterpart Gavin Grimmer have discovered that two people saw a radial engine on a rocky bluff, as well as a plane tail in a different location.
Coupled with reports from local people who recalled stories about hearing an engine cutting out, a crash, and smoke pouring out of the trees in 1928, they felt the find warranted further investigation.
"It's very unlikely to be two crashes in the same place," Mr Grimmer said. He did not want to reveal who had seen the engine.
Mr Mackie did not think the engine could have come from any other downed aircraft.
"It's very likely to be a much earlier plane like the Aotearoa, so that's why I'm personally quite interested in it. There may be a few different bits strewn through the bush there."
The Aotearoa's engine had external pushrods and would be quite distinctive, he said.
New Zealanders Lieutenant John Moncrieff and Captain George Hood attempted to make the first trans-Tasman flight in the Aotearoa, a Ryan B-5 Brougham monoplane, in January 1928, but disappeared somewhere between Sydney and Upper Hutt.
Despite many sightings and searches over the years, including a big Land Search and Rescue operation at Awaroa in January 2013, no trace of the wreckage or the lost aviators has ever been found.
If the plane was found on land, it would prove that Hood and Moncrieff had beaten Charles Kingsford-Smith and the Southern Cross across the Tasman by eight months, despite dying in the attempt.
Mr Mackie was still researching the information and topography, and was considering going to Karamea to try to find the engine.
The terrain was rough and the people who had found the engine had not been able to find it again, he said.
"The information I have is quite preliminary, [and] there's no point in getting all excited about it unless we have some serious facts to go on," he said.
"We've got to find something. That's the proof of the pudding."
Mr Mackie was also working on a remote-control drone that would carry a metal detector underneath it to make searching for aircraft easier in remote locations.
But searching was expensive, Mr Grimmer said. "If we had unlimited finance to draw on, then I'm sure we would find them."
Nelson search and rescue volunteer group training officer Sherp Tucker, who co-ordinated last January's unsuccessful search in Awaroa, said a find would be great. "They should be able to identify the engine. There's only one of those that ever came out here and crashed," he said.
Aviation historian Richard Waugh said a confirmed find would be hugely important.
"Not only in terms of trans-Tasman relationships but in aviation history," he said. "It would rewrite the history books [and] would be a huge story both in New Zealand and Australia."
He said Hood and Moncrieff were Kiwi heroes. "It would be amazing if they were found."
Contact firstname.lastname@example.org if you have information on lost aircraft.
As for the Corsair, well no new developments that I am aware of. It seems a strange thread though, - we had two first time posters and after their respective posts that was it. Never heard from again. Courthouse and F28.
Last Edit: Jan 30, 2014 9:52:40 GMT 12 by baronbeeza
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: Corsair NZ5517 Hi, As I stated in the General Forum, that I would contact some of the people that had written to me with information to see whether they were happy for me to publish their letters in these Forums for all to see, and here is the first one that I've received permission for.
Hello Have studied your website with much interest as a group of friends and I have found three local historic crashed aircraft ,an Auster near Mount Duppa ,the Electra on Mount Fell,and the Dragon at Kawitiri.. I have heard very recently that a elderly possum hunter is convinced that he found the lost Corsair in the top of the Mohikinui some years ago which is also the area I believe somebody claimed to have seen Moncrieff's downed aircraft.Will let you know when I hear more. Regards Terry Coleman
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Hi, Here's another letter:
Hello Gavin Found your website after googling for any info on the missing corsair, good to find it. I was today at the Murchison Area School 125 reunion and got talking to a fellow who reckons his father heard this plane at his somewhat isolated farm in the mid Maruia Valley just North of Mt Rutland. He said his father paid attention to it because he was worried it was a Japanese attack! The sound of the planes engine(s) suddenly grew much louder and then it ceased. He reckoned his father had not told anyone at the time, and he, the son, had only mentioned it to a couple of other people before. His theory is that the plane flew south down the Deepdale Valley and then came over low saddle into the Maruia. I wondered whether aerial photos of this area exist and whether it has been considered before. Cheers Roger Frost
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:08 pm Hello Rodger,
Many thanks for passing on this information. I would totally agree with this information as on the stated heading of 120 degrees magnetic from Westport, that the leader (Bob Reynolds) said that they were flying on, and they were flying in a cruise climb for about 10 minutes - would place the Corsairs at around 30 nautical miles away from Westport, which would be exactly in the area that this fellow's father heard it! Bob Reynolds at the time calculated the position to be 3 - 4 miles west of Inangahua Landing, and all I can say to this is that he wasn't very good at maths. The sound of the planes engine getting louder and then ceasing can be explained in many different scenarios, the easiest being that it simply was coming closer to the observers spot and then flying over a range. Personally, I think Brian Barstow was quite likely in a steep dive (probably uncontrolled in cloud) and then pulled the power off to reduce the speed and may well have been well over the ranges before he applied more power. - I say this based on my findings of what I have on a 1947 aerial photo in the Paparoa Ranges. Have you read the "News April 2009" pages on my website? I have included the aerial photo, with an explanation to it there. Many regards Gavin Grimmer
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:09 pm Thanks for your reply Gavin
I have had another look at your site and this time managed to find the aerial photo - pretty impressive! But is that the location west of Inangahua Landing? Are you able to give me NZMS 260 grid references for the site in photo? I take it that Bob Reynolds saying they turned back to Westport when they 30 nautical miles away from WEstport? At 55.56km and a bearing of 142 degress true north that would put them over the Victoria Range in the vicinity of Mt Victoria, which is remarkably close to where Len's father lived. The question now is did he hear one plane or more? I live close to the confluence of the Maruia and Buller Rivers and get out into the bush quite a bit, and with an interest in local history. I was not previously aware of this missing plane in our local area. Cheers Roger
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:10 pm Hi Roger, The location of the photo is up in the head waters of the Blackwater River in a place known as King Solomon Stream. There is no point in giving you grid references as it is no longer there in the spot that is shown in the photo, however it maybe broken up and further down the river due to heavy snow falls in the area or even buried due to the 1969 earthquake. Hopefully, Geoff Collis and his team will find the remains of it next summer when they go in and do a thorough search - I may go in with them, but I'll have to wait and see. Maybe you might be interested in going in with them? The story about the disappearance of this Corsair can be found in Chris Rudge's Book "MISSING" and you can find a link to be able to buy it by 'clicking' on the picture of his book on the 'HOME' page in my website, or you can quite often find it on Trademe as Chris sells it direct also from there - just type "missing" in Trademe's search box. Bob Reynolds calculated that they were 16 miles away from Westport. The Corsair cruised at 180 knots which is 3 nautical miles per minute. He said that they had been flying for about 10 mins since leaving Westport so using simple maths 10 mins @ 3 nautical miles per min = 30 nautical miles. They were in a cruise climb of 800'/min (8000' in 10 mins) so the speed would have been a little less than 180kts, so to keep it simple = 30 statute miles - So you see, that for Reynolds to say they had only travelled 16 miles (3-4 miles west of Inangahua Landing) was bizzare to say the least! They were somewhere in the region of Mt Victoria at 9000', quite likely further north as the Corsair was seen at low level heading up New Creek Valley and he was quite likely very disorientated and lost. Now using your information, it appears that he may have flown out of there and flown down the Deepdale Valley, climbing over the range at the headwaters of that valley just east of Mt Pelion and then followed the Awarau River coming out just north of Reefton. (he was seen flying over the Reefton area) By the time he got there, he should have been able to get his "bearings" back again and set course for Westport. King Solomon Stream, where I believe he ended up, is in a direct line between Reefton and Westport! When he flew over the range just east of Mt Pelion, would be the point that Len's father thought the motor, or at least the noise from it had ceased. This would have been because he would have descended into the Awarau (otherwise known as Larry River) River Valley. This obviously is only a possible scenario that I have dreamed up trying to fit all the pieces together. There is nothing like having local knowledge, as you would have, so what is your opinion on this scenario? Regards Gavin
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:14 pm Hello Gavin THanks for this email Gavin and for your previous one with so much more information that was of course all new to me. Yes, by all means use my letter to encurage discussion. If a single plane was lost in the New Creek area I doubt it would then find its way up the Deepdale as the mouth of the Deepdale Valley is pretty narrow. It's more likely to follow the Buller to Inangahua Junction and then the Inangahua valley to Reefton. There are so many questions about the episode that keep coming to mind, I don't know how many you would have answers to. I am away from home at a conference in Chch, so will reply more fully when I get home. Cheers Roger
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:19 pm Many thanks Roger, I look forward to your many questions as it is this sort of discussion that makes a person think it through very thoroughly - and something that I thrive on! It also helps a person (meaning me) to keep an open mind! Regards, Gavin
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:28 am Hi Roger,
I've been reading Bryan Cox's book "Too Young To Die" which talks of his experiences during the 2nd World War flying Corsairs (and others) and from information that I found in there, I've come to realise that I could have made an error in my calculations. The distance travelled by the Corsairs that I used was based on a cruise climb (180 mph) rate of 800 ft/min whereas in Bryan's book it appears as though it was more like anything up to 2000 ft/min! By using the position that Bob Reynold's said that they turned back shows that he had calculated it at a rate of 1600 ft/min - and only he would know at what rate they climbed at that day. This puts the position that they turned back obviously where he said it was - 3 to 4 miles west of Inangahua Landing using that climb rate. However there is another difficulty in that he said that they arrived over Westport at 10.40 am, circled the town for 5 minutes (10.45) and at 9000' he decided to turn back (at 10.55 am). Now if they had climbed at 1600'/min for 10 minutes then that would have put them at 17000' - working on the assumption that they were over Westport at 1000' when they left and that they had held a constant 1600'/min climb rate. If the position that they turned back was where Reynolds calculated it to be, then it would appear that they turned back at 10.50 and not 10.55 - either that, or they were a further 15 miles further east than his calculation. This does point out the difficulties that there is trying to work things out with only the availability of conflicting information, and although I've had "egg on my face" a couple of times now, I suppose at least, hopefully, we get there in the end!
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:13 pm From your sightings page: Quote: 4/ There is a rumour of an elderly possum hunter who was convinced that he had found Corsair NZ5517 in the headwaters of the Mohikinui / New Creek area some years ago. This is also the area somebody claimed to have seen the Moncrieff / Hood Ryan G-AUNZ aircraft.
I have scoured some maps and it found that New Creek is NNE of Inangahua and Mokihinui River is even further North. Ohikanui River is just East of King Solomon Stream. I wonder if Chinese Whispers have led to Ohikanui becoming "Mohikinui"? But then New Creek is nowhere near Ohikanui.... Confused
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:31 am Yes I agree, going by some of the reports that I've had, that there appears to be some confusion with Mokihinui and Ohikanui Rivers getting mixed up. If said quickly, they almost sound the same. The Mokihinui River starts at the coast and carries all the way down, on what is quoted on the map I use, as the "Mokihinui River (South Branch)." If you go one ridge over to the west of the headwaters of this river, you have the headwaters of New Creek. Interestingly, I now have a copy of a map sent to me from Brian Gough showing a position marked on an old 1943 map, in Slate Creek, of where a gold prospector claimed he had found the Corsair. Slate Creek is at the headwaters of the Mokihinui. If you or anyone is interested in going in there and checking it out, then let me know and I'll give you all the help I can - on the condition that you let me know so that it can be documented to save someone else looking in the same place again in the future!
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:32 am Post subject: Gavins take At the beginning of 2009 I contacted Gavin to congratulate him on the release of this Website and for help to clarify some points made about NZ5517 from "Missing" by Chris Rudge. I am not a pilot and really have no qualifications to produce my own theories, I'm just very interested and keen to help if I can. Thanks again Gavin for putting this Website together and for your effort and commitment.
SC - Why would the court of inquiry dismiss the oil on the windscreen? Would this not compound the (lack of) visibility factor in the turn?
GG - The oil on the windscreen was only a theory and even if there was, then it would only have been a matter of flying on instruments to get back to Westport. Oil on the windscreen would only have become a problem when you needed visibility to land the aircraft. Lack of flying experience was the most likely cause of this accident.
Gavins play-by-play: I was very fortunate today in that I was given all the landing charts for NZ dated 1/11/1945 and on the Westport Chart it states that the magnetic variation then was 17.5 degrees and that it was changing at a rate of 1/2 degree per year. This puts the variation on the day NZ5517 disappeared at definitely 17 degrees, so added onto the magnetic heading of 120 degrees makes it 137 degrees true. Another interesting fact that needs to be taken into account was that when the Corsairs left Westport, they were on a heading off 159° true (direct course for Christchurch) and when they reached a height of 3000 feet, the leader (Reynolds) gave the other pilots a direction of 120° magnetic to steer, which of course makes it 137° true - presuming that there was no wind at the time. Reynolds had noticed that there was thick cloud coming in from the Southwest and hence the reason they had changed direction, so then presumably, there was a Southwest wind blowing. Presuming that they were at 1000 feet when they left Westport. That would mean that they climbed a further 2000 feet. I would estimate that they were climbing at roughly 800 ft./m at a cruise climb of roughly 3 mi./m which equals out to 2 1/2 minutes, which equals 7 1/2 miles. Now, if you place a line on the map from Westport heading in a direct line of 159° true and then at 7 1/2 miles change to 137° true and then head in that direction for a distance of 22 1/2 miles, then that point should give you a reasonably correct distance out and the furtherest point south that Reynolds, the leader decided to turn back. The 22 1/2 miles is based on the 3000 to 9000 feet @ 800 feet per min which works out to 7 1/2 minutes, and at 3 miles per minute, of course, is 22 1/2 miles.
The image (1947 Aerial): GG - The object that I have in the photo could be explained as just an unusual position of fallen trees that just happen to measure out correctly the same as the Corsair (stranger things have happened) but the gouge mark in the limestone cannot be. The gouge is so intense that originally I thought it to be a fault on the negative but on closer examination I was 'blown away' to find that there was also what appears to be the Corsair linked in with it.
SC - The only thing that puzzled me about the corsair image is that the white patch in the bush suggests impact damage to the vegetation and the aircraft seems to have stopped quite suddenly and remained remarkably intact? Do you have a different interpretation? I still can't get over how Corsair'ish it looks! I can't imagine it as anything else.
GG - The Corsair image photo was three years old and on the original you could see signs of damage to the trees over a 500 ft path - so this to me, meant that it took about 500 ft for it to come to a halt and then over the three years, the trees had recovered. - It's very easy to dream up these theories and who knows whether I'm correct or not?
Oil on Windscreen, re-visited: GG – If you put yourself in the position of the Corsair pilot that had just lost sight of the other Corsairs that were in close formation in cloud, where would you go? I know, that if it were me, I would turn away from where they were -otherwise you might end up colliding into them. This would place NZ5517 south of their position and this is where I found it on the aerial photo.
(current discussion) SC - I guess this is the point where I thought the oil on the windscreen might compound the issue, In the turn. On pg72 of Missing Reynolds mentions that just prior to turning Barstow transmitted that his windscreen was covered with oil and that he could not see out of it ahead.
-Why would Barstow make this transmission especially if at the time he had no idea they were about to turn? or did he make the transmission because Reynolds had just mentioned the turn? (if he could not receive he would not know about the turn) was Barstow concerned about the oil?
-How long does it take to have a windscreen covered with oil? They had recently been flying over Westport conducting maneuvers, was he oil free at this point?
-Was it not until this point in the Journey that the others seem to think Barstow could transmit but not receive. Is it typical for the leader to speak and the others to stay quiet? Might he have had Radio trouble only at the turn?
-If he did turn away to avoid a collision would he have intended to initializing and complete a starboard turn? or initialize another port turn in time?
-Did he widen the turn radius to dramatically increase the distance from Reynolds?
-Were the 3 aircraft side by side or in a V pattern?
I just realized that its the anniversary of Brian Barstow's disappearance today. Thinking of you all, missing but not forgotten
Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 11:29 pm Post subject: Corsair NZ5517's markings for a model Hey guys
Currently in the process of making a model of NZ5517 but I'm having abit of trouble ,could anyone help me out with its personal markings? also would anyone know if it was carrying its drop tank at the time it was lost?
Any help would be much appreciated!
Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:10 am Or if anyone could point me in the right direction of where I maybe able to find them ,would also be much appreciated
Post by baronbeeza on Mar 25, 2020 11:53:28 GMT 12
No, I always thought Del Powick took the photo but she passed away a few years ago. This came from Peter Sheppard's collection and I think all the copies may have been the same. This one has been colourised so I doubt the colours would be anywhere near correct. I can ask the Reynolds boys to see if they have anything similar.