mags
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 2
|
Post by mags on Feb 24, 2012 18:49:01 GMT 12
sorry didn't mean to steer the convo in a different direction I'm genuinely concerned with the lowering morale Defence wide... And Dave yep we've got transgender pers currently serving.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 24, 2012 18:57:34 GMT 12
Thanks mags. I was not trying to drag it into the gutter either, it just seems somewhat unfathomable to an old timer lie me I guess. But in the modern world things have changed completely - after all we had a PM for nine years that was a man in a dress so why not in the NZDF?  |
|
|
|
Post by meo4 on Feb 24, 2012 19:13:36 GMT 12
"Basically the frigates are NZ only line of defence all two of them," While one is on cocktail party duty and the other sits at Devonport getting repaired, the country is very safe with their pop guns protecting us. Not worth even having if it's about defence. The real best defence in NZ is every farmer and gang member has a personal rifle. Dont think giving gang members guns is a safe option might wipe each other out . Heres a clip of a 5 inch pop gun same found on the anzacs you talk bout on a yank ship. |
|
|
|
Post by harvard1041 on Feb 24, 2012 23:39:15 GMT 12
Having only done 9 years myself - got out a week after my Return-of-Service expired, I tend to think once the 'fun' has gone out of the Military life - it is time to go do something else anyway. In my case being posted away from A-4s was enough to make me leave - that, and seeing several good friends getting out.
I think our politicans & senior military brass have let NZ and the good hard working Military people down badly over the last 30 years... we used to have a reasonable well equipped modern air arm ... now, I'm not so sure sadly ... and the recent cost-cutting fiasco seems to have been especially poorly handled. Agree with the comments about severely trimming HQ - man alive is the RNZAF 'top-heavy' now days !?!
Best morale I remember was on the flying Sqns ... and ARS at WB.
Two best days are the day you join, and the day you leave. Plenty of good exciting rewarding aviation jobs out there - many overseas of course.
Cheers
Hvd1041
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 24, 2012 23:58:47 GMT 12
I remember Wigram as a place that had great morale, even after we were told the place was closing down. It took two years for them to finally move flying training and Tech Wing out of the base but in that time there was a great esprit d'corp there, it was a happy base and nothing was ever an issue or a problem when you wanted something done. I did not experience such spirit at Whenuapai or Ohakea. They were bigger places, busier perhaps, and you became just another face in the crowd. Wigram was a family atmosphere for base siders. Everyone knew everyone. I still think of that place as the heart of the RNZAF, and the politicians stuck a knife right through it. It was the beginning of the end.
|
|
|
|
Post by jonesy on Feb 25, 2012 0:42:31 GMT 12
I also remember Wigram being a nice place to be-even tho I was just at TTS. Dave, Ohakea was good, and we had a blast there when we wanted to, I think the fact that we were a good 20 min away from town (not Bulls!!) contributed to that, somehow a sense of isolation? Auckland gave me the shits when I visited, I'm just a small town boy, and AKL seemed like the big scary place...I shouldve given it more of a chance I spose? When I visit friends on base now it doesnt seem so, I dunno, unfriendly??
I certainly look back on my time spent at OH with fond memories.
In fact, we were packing up things in our house the other day when I found a pottery beer mug with "Beerfest, Ohakea, 1992" painted on it. It had all the memories I kept from my time in, stuffed inside it- some rank slides, squadron and Project Kahu badges, and my 2 Sqn name badge. Thats it. I thought I'd lost all that stuff, so was pretty stoked to have found it again!! Just sat down with it and remembered what a great time we all had.
I'll lay odds theres not many of those beer mugs left in existance, could be worth an absolute fortune 1 day on Antiques Roadshow!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 25, 2012 7:39:26 GMT 12
I guess my time at Ohakea was tainted by the fact that most of the people I mixed with were friends who's also been shafted up there from Wigram and most of us were jaded by the move, and really didn't like Ohakea after Wigram. I guess they either got used to it or did what I did and got out.
|
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on Feb 25, 2012 10:28:24 GMT 12
Well this news has caught me totally by surprise, and what a shock it is to hear that the NZDF's morale could be at such a low point.  Maybe it the little things like: "Labour defence spokesman Iain Lees-Galloway said morale would have dropped even further after Defence Minister Jonathan Coleman's recent comment that people in defence needed to drop the attitude that it was a job for life." I mean, NZDF personnel have had virtually had no moral support from either the Greens or Labour for the past 20+ years, and now they have to listen to absolute stupidity like the above from the National Party's Defence Minister about not expecting a job for life - mind you, the same person will be expecting service personnel to be prepared and willing to potentially put their neck on the chopping block if his Governement choose to send them off to some world hellhole to do the Government's work! What a bloody joke - and it looks like National holds the Defence portfolio in the same 'high' regard as the previous Labour government.  I hope that The Right 'Honorable' Jonathan Coleman was a better Doctor than he is Defence Minister - and if he was, maybe he should go back to that profession. |
|
|
|
Post by phil on Feb 25, 2012 11:23:07 GMT 12
Why do we need a third frigate? The two we have do bugger all. Just like the Skyhawks did bugger all. So say those that are ignorant of what they actually did. |
|
|
|
Post by phil on Feb 25, 2012 11:30:01 GMT 12
Maybe it the little things like: "Labour defence spokesman Iain Lees-Galloway said morale would have dropped even further after Defence Minister Jonathan Coleman's recent comment that people in defence needed to drop the attitude that it was a job for life." I'd like to see him try telling the families of Andy Forster, Tim O'Donnel, Doug Grant, and all the others that have been killed while serving that the Defence force isn't a job for life. It was for them, they gave their lives in service. There's a reason people stay in for 20+ years. Loyalty. A trait that is quite highly thought of in the military, but not it seems in the offices of ministers of the crown. |
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on Feb 25, 2012 12:04:06 GMT 12
I'd like to see him try telling the families of Andy Forster, Tim O'Donnel, Doug Grant, and all the others that have been killed while serving that the Defence force isn't a job for life. It was for them, they gave their lives in service. There's a reason people stay in for 20+ years. Loyalty. A trait that is quite highly thought of in the military, but not it seems in the offices of ministers of the crown. +100000000! |
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on Feb 25, 2012 19:55:13 GMT 12
My sister lives in the Pilbara (Port Hedland) and has been there for 23 years. It is not all beer and skittles in the mining industry. you are not told about the lack of job security and that you can turn up at work and "window seated". That means you are on the next plane out and the company packs up your gear in your donger (single mens quarters) and forwards it on to you. This time of the year it's 40 plus degrees C and in December January 50. If you can get accommodation it's expensive. Last year my niece was over the moon because she found a 3 bedroom house for AU$1200.00 per week in rent (she thought she'd be looking at AU$1500 - 1800). Everything is expensive up there from your water to your beer. You can get treated like shit at work and have no comeback. My sister has just rented out a room in her house for AU$500.00 per week and that's the going rate. My other niece is building a house there and shes going to rent it out and that will bring in AU$120k per year. She has a work house subsidised by the Shire because she works for the Pilbara Shire. Having said that if you can get the right jobs the money is big but you start at the bottom for a shit company and the large companies like BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto cherry pick. So you could be working outside for the first year in the heat mentioned above. My ex bro in law was a mechanic and ended up working on machinery over there in a 5m deep hole where the temp could be 60 degrees. They used to put their tools in water to keep them cool. It is an amazing place and the ore trains are 2.75km long - 2 locos 112 ore wagons, 2 locos 112 ore wagons. One driver & that's it. They travel about 500km from the mine to the port and there are about 12 trains a day. They don't have hopper doors on the wagons so have to tip the wagons to disgorge the ore. They run the train into a building and empty 4 wagons at a time without disconnecting them from the train. It's quite ingenious. The train pulls 4 wagons through a drum at a time and stops. The drum clamps the wagons & then rotates the wagons 180 degrees pivoting around the wagon connection, emptying the ore then another continues rotation to 360 degrees; driver pulls another 4 wagons through and the process is repeated. Each wagon has about 105 - 110 tonne of iron ore. They have a conveyor belt system that is an engineers nightmare. It's like a tin of spaghetti with belts going everywhere and that's how they move ore from the trains to the stockpiles and then to the ships. They also mine the ore for stainless steel, salt and manganese. The ore ships are 300,000 tonne vessels, take 30 hours to load and they can load 6 at a time. When I flew in there were 12 - 15 ships at anchor offshore waiting to load. |
|
|
|
Post by corsair67 on Feb 25, 2012 20:25:32 GMT 12
Most of the problems with housing, services and infrastructure in the mining areas of WA has been caused by a total lack of willingness by the WA State government to spend any money on improving anything in those areas, while at the same time spending billions made from the mining boom on improving services and infrastructure in Perth. |
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on Feb 25, 2012 20:32:07 GMT 12
Maybe it the little things like: "Labour defence spokesman Iain Lees-Galloway said morale would have dropped even further after Defence Minister Jonathan Coleman's recent comment that people in defence needed to drop the attitude that it was a job for life." I'd like to see him try telling the families of Andy Forster, Tim O'Donnel, Doug Grant, and all the others that have been killed while serving that the Defence force isn't a job for life. It was for them, they gave their lives in service. There's a reason people stay in for 20+ years. Loyalty. A trait that is quite highly thought of in the military, but not it seems in the offices of ministers of the crown. Bravo Zulu. Well said, very well said. |
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on Feb 25, 2012 20:51:43 GMT 12
Most of the problems with housing, services and infrastructure in the mining areas of WA has been caused by a total lack of willingness by the WA State government to spend any money on improving anything in those areas, while at the same time spending billions made from the mining boom on improving services and infrastructure in Perth. Port Hedland is BHP town no matter that they have a 'shire governance'. What BHP says basically goes. Of course the WA state govt take all the taxes and levies they can from the mining and spend it all in Perth. That's where the votes are, not in the outback. They never had that great kiwi export that Queensland had, Joh Bielke Petersen who gerrymandered the electoral system in Queensland so that a rural vote was worth 2 urban votes. That's what it all comes down to. Having said that my sister's a nurse and the RFDS is a big part up there but I think that is funded by the Federal Govt. I remember her saying a few years back about the state govt building all these nice new houses/ flats for the local resident population of Aboriginals. Well the Aboriginals went in and took the furniture and wooden doors outside and used it to build a fire to cook their tucker. Some tried to wash their clothes in the flushing toilet bowl. It was very well intentioned providing them the housing but no one in the state govt thought to actually sit down with the Aboriginals and ask them what they wanted or explained to them the functions of the house and its utilities. Things we take for granted. The state govt had another scheme where they gave the Aboriginals money to buy a car. After they bought the car they then took receipt into Centrelink who paid out another sum rewarding them for buying the car. Different cultures different world views and different priorities. I was staying over there in 2009 when they had the referendum on daylight saving in WA. Funny as a cart load of monkeys. Heard all the strangest of reasons why daylight saving should not occur like it'll put the cows off their milking because the time will change. Absolute rubbish because delineation of time into hours is a human construct. The no votes won. |
|
|
|
Post by gunny on Feb 25, 2012 22:24:48 GMT 12
Most of the problems with housing, services and infrastructure in the mining areas of WA has been caused by a total lack of willingness by the WA State government to spend any money on improving anything in those areas, while at the same time spending billions made from the mining boom on improving services and infrastructure in Perth. Port Hedland is BHP town no matter that they have a 'shire governance'. What BHP says basically goes. Of course the WA state govt take all the taxes and levies they can from the mining and spend it all in Perth. That's where the votes are, not in the outback. They never had that great kiwi export that Queensland had, Joh Bielke Petersen who gerrymandered the electoral system in Queensland so that a rural vote was worth 2 urban votes. That's what it all comes down to. Having said that my sister's a nurse and the RFDS is a big part up there but I think that is funded by the Federal Govt. I remember her saying a few years back about the state govt building all these nice new houses/ flats for the local resident population of Aboriginals. Well the Aboriginals went in and took the furniture and wooden doors outside and used it to build a fire to cook their tucker. Some tried to wash their clothes in the flushing toilet bowl. It was very well intentioned providing them the housing but no one in the state govt thought to actually sit down with the Aboriginals and ask them what they wanted or explained to them the functions of the house and its utilities. Things we take for granted. The state govt had another scheme where they gave the Aboriginals money to buy a car. After they bought the car they then took receipt into Centrelink who paid out another sum rewarding them for buying the car. Different cultures different world views and different priorities. I was staying over there in 2009 when they had the referendum on daylight saving in WA. Funny as a cart load of monkeys. Heard all the strangest of reasons why daylight saving should not occur like it'll put the cows off their milking because the time will change. Absolute rubbish because delineation of time into hours is a human construct. The no votes won. I love this backward country but best i heard was daylight savings will cause your curtains to fade!! sheesh Aussies are dumb (sorry to any naturalized aussies on the board) but coming here in 2001 Qld was like 1987 compared to N.Z, don't get me wrong i love it here i feel so much brighter than the locals hahaha sorry but when you talk to someone and they say "yeah yeah naah" i'm just at a loss, laugh and walk away. Side note Sir Joh was a kiwi i love telling that to aussies they still rever him to this day |
|
|
|
Post by gunny on Feb 25, 2012 22:45:14 GMT 12
All i can add to this after 1yr in B-coy 2nd cantab R.N.Z.I.R and 4yrs in C-coy 1bttn R.N.Z.I.R it is a sad sad day for society that disipline can not be enforced and P.C bulderdash rules over mil rules the tree huggers win again.. i remember being taken behind the barracks at waiouru and given a good hiding by a cpl with a staff sgt watching for speeking out of turn.
Society is going to hell in a handbasket, at work the othernight i caught a couple having intimate relations in public...problem was "he" was dressed as a female and having sex with a female but identified himself as a female lesbian trapped in a males body and waiting on Queensland health to give him gender reassignment, police and i had a laugh about it after they ticketed them and moved them on.
Bottom line, till western society gets back to majority rules and minoritys dont, goverments will spend millions on appesing nobodys!
I'm stepping down from my soapbox now, but interested as to how many ex-service people see how the majority have lost power.
|
|
|
|
Post by Andy Wright on Feb 25, 2012 23:14:39 GMT 12
Port Hedland is BHP town no matter that they have a 'shire governance'. What BHP says basically goes. Of course the WA state govt take all the taxes and levies they can from the mining and spend it all in Perth. That's where the votes are, not in the outback. They never had that great kiwi export that Queensland had, Joh Bielke Petersen who gerrymandered the electoral system in Queensland so that a rural vote was worth 2 urban votes. That's what it all comes down to. Having said that my sister's a nurse and the RFDS is a big part up there but I think that is funded by the Federal Govt. I remember her saying a few years back about the state govt building all these nice new houses/ flats for the local resident population of Aboriginals. Well the Aboriginals went in and took the furniture and wooden doors outside and used it to build a fire to cook their tucker. Some tried to wash their clothes in the flushing toilet bowl. It was very well intentioned providing them the housing but no one in the state govt thought to actually sit down with the Aboriginals and ask them what they wanted or explained to them the functions of the house and its utilities. Things we take for granted. The state govt had another scheme where they gave the Aboriginals money to buy a car. After they bought the car they then took receipt into Centrelink who paid out another sum rewarding them for buying the car. Different cultures different world views and different priorities. I was staying over there in 2009 when they had the referendum on daylight saving in WA. Funny as a cart load of monkeys. Heard all the strangest of reasons why daylight saving should not occur like it'll put the cows off their milking because the time will change. Absolute rubbish because delineation of time into hours is a human construct. The no votes won. I love this backward country but best i heard was daylight savings will cause your curtains to fade!! sheesh Aussies are dumb (sorry to any naturalized aussies on the board) but coming here in 2001 Qld was like 1987 compared to N.Z, don't get me wrong i love it here i feel so much brighter than the locals hahaha sorry but when you talk to someone and they say "yeah yeah naah" i'm just at a loss, laugh and walk away. Side note Sir Joh was a kiwi i love telling that to aussies they still rever him to this day Yeah, those excuses for not voting daylight savings in Western Australia have been rearing their stupid heads since the 1970s. I still don't understand why WA keeps saying no but it's not, as you suggest above, because of those small-minded, uneducated reasojns mentioned. Before we left in 2008, the state was having a three-year 'trial' and I worked with a few people who didn't like it. The main reason was the darkness in the morning when they were up exercising etc. Not great to do in the evening during a Perth summer but when it's still light at 2030 and the heat has eased a little, it's heaven. I still can't believe they keep voting it down. Same applies with Queensland. Our regional office is in Perth and being three hours behind their only eastern states operation always ends up in delays at this time of year. Err, yeah, right. As corrupt as the day is long and completely rooted the state so, no, not revered ... but that's getting into politics which I abhor and doesn't belong on here. :-) |
|
|
|
Post by gunny on Feb 25, 2012 23:42:19 GMT 12
Ahhh my last rant on low morale in the N.Z.D.F this has been ongoing for years, i remember being sent on exercise against 40south in 89, we held ambush positions for 3 days (with no B.F.A's or blank ammunition) on the 3rd day we were told that the powers that be did'nt even bus 40south up!!! and were expected to shout "GUNS GUNS GUNS".
Next was flight to waiouru from Harewood, turns out 40south took our boarding passes and we had thiers (imagine that these days)on that induction of basic we were told present in uniform civies uniform civies uniform so we left King Edward Barracks at 10:00 3hrs late, flew out on a fokker to wellywood arriving just after lunch on a sunday. Thats when we were told the busses had'nt even left waiouru, long story short 2nd cantabs in uniform 40south in civvies abd bars shut, we found out if we pooled togeather 1 member in the kuru club could have 4 guests so thats where we were when the busses arrived.
My limited experience too many chiefs, not enough indians and NO ONE knows whats going on! worst position i had was a uni grad lieutenant trying to override stf/sgt Mahuta who was right and we lost the exercise
|
|
|
|
Post by ngatimozart on Feb 26, 2012 13:10:01 GMT 12
Ahhh my last rant on low morale in the N.Z.D.F this has been ongoing for years, i remember being sent on exercise against 40south in 89, we held ambush positions for 3 days (with no B.F.A's or blank ammunition) on the 3rd day we were told that the powers that be did'nt even bus 40south up!!! and were expected to shout "GUNS GUNS GUNS". Next was flight to waiouru from Harewood, turns out 40south took our boarding passes and we had thiers (imagine that these days)on that induction of basic we were told present in uniform civies uniform civies uniform so we left King Edward Barracks at 10:00 3hrs late, flew out on a fokker to wellywood arriving just after lunch on a sunday. Thats when we were told the busses had'nt even left waiouru, long story short 2nd cantabs in uniform 40south in civvies abd bars shut, we found out if we pooled togeather 1 member in the kuru club could have 4 guests so thats where we were when the busses arrived. My limited experience too many chiefs, not enough indians and NO ONE knows whats going on! worst position i had was a uni grad lieutenant trying to override stf/sgt Mahuta who was right and we lost the exercise You'd be right. I remember flying to Whenuapai from Harewood in May 1990 on C130 for Navy basic training. They'd already picked up Dunedin contingent. Next stop Wellington & then Ohakea then Whenuapai. Ee weren't flight rationed so all of us Mainlanders hadn't had anything since breakfast. I the Loadie who as a Flt Lt because I had served with him when I was in RNZAFabout flight rations and he said none had been ordered for pax. Navy balls up so no scran for matelots until dinner at Tamaki. I used to think food at Hobbie or Whenupai airmens mess was bad, but Tamaki JRs was rough. Yep we waited for about an hour in air movements at Whenuapai for Navy bus to pull alongside. She must have travelled via Hastings. After basic they flew us back Air NZ. |
|
