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Post by corsair67 on Mar 10, 2012 19:41:23 GMT 12
On the 3 news article I watched a RNZAF Top Brass say that the NH-90 will be used only when needed and spareingly so does mean that 8 NH-90s will still do the job that 14 or so Hueys do and will the NH-90 hours flown over a year be less than the Hueys hours??? I can understand the small Huey sniffing around for the green weed grown in the bush but I cant see a near on $100 million NH-90 being used for such task or will that be up to the smaller Mako??? If they're going to be used sparingly, then what was the point of buying the damn things then? They need to be used to the maximum, by crews who can almost operate them with their eyes closed - not sitting idle in a hangar, gathering dust, having systems go off-line and for seals to dry out for God's sake. Who's running the Air Force now: men and women with a can-do attitude and a bit of fighting spirit, or spineless, faceless nervous-nellies in Wellington?
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Post by saratoga on Mar 10, 2012 19:58:54 GMT 12
On the 3 news article I watched a RNZAF Top Brass say that the NH-90 will be used only when needed and spareingly so does mean that 8 NH-90s will still do the job that 14 or so Hueys do and will the NH-90 hours flown over a year be less than the Hueys hours??? I can understand the small Huey sniffing around for the green weed grown in the bush but I cant see a near on $100 million NH-90 being used for such task or will that be up to the smaller Mako??? Or maybe they're worried about the simulator gathering dust?
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Post by Peter Lewis on Mar 11, 2012 8:00:51 GMT 12
Who's running the Air Force now: men and women with a can-do attitude and a bit of fighting spirit, or spineless, faceless nervous-nellies in Wellington? Um . . . er . . . That's a really hard question. Can I have something easier?
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Post by jonesy on Mar 11, 2012 8:27:08 GMT 12
Who's running the Air Force now: men and women with a can-do attitude and a bit of fighting spirit, or spineless, faceless nervous-nellies in Wellington? Um . . . er . . . That's a really hard question. Can I have something easier? Actually its easier than you think. There seems to be a huge difference between who we WANT to be running the show, and who we've GOT. The most difficult thing to deal with is that, as a nation with incredibly limited financial resources we're having to do the best with what we've got...there just isnt a huge bottomless pit of cash to dig into when we need something and so priorities have to be made. Sooooo then-are we getting the best bang for our buck? Cannot fault the guys working on the coal face, theyre giving it their all.....its these administrators in WGTN that are causing grief! PS-anyone running a a sweepstake for how long till the first one is broken/needs major warranty repairs??
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Post by adzze on Mar 11, 2012 10:03:51 GMT 12
Actually its easier than you think. There seems to be a huge difference between who we WANT to be running the show, and who we've GOT. The most difficult thing to deal with is that, as a nation with incredibly limited financial resources we're having to do the best with what we've got...there just isnt a huge bottomless pit of cash to dig into when we need something and so priorities have to be made. Sooooo then-are we getting the best bang for our buck? Cannot fault the guys working on the coal face, theyre giving it their all.....its these administrators in WGTN that are causing grief! Somewhat off topic, but I wonder if the rising costs of military kit will make this more and more of an issue in future: that to maintain a credible capability in certain areas requires a level of investment that cannot be replaced except through the natural life of the product - leading to 'over-protectiveness' of what are essentially assets designed to be put in harm's way?
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Post by strikemaster on Mar 11, 2012 10:15:41 GMT 12
I guess when you consider the A109 has more parts and more expensive parts at that, than a Sioux, its going to happen. Especially as they get more sophisticated. This happens with any product. Same can be said for the Huey and the NH90.
Who were the suits in the cockpit of the NH90? Pollies parading?
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kiwirotorwrench
Warrant Officer
"Silent gratitude never did anyone any good"
Posts: 37
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Post by kiwirotorwrench on Mar 11, 2012 12:18:18 GMT 12
@ Beagle "Not sure I like all the black checkers around the windows and doors."
That would be your "NATO Standard" requirement for emergency access doors/windows. More likely a requirement due to it's weight class and certification standard v's a smaller type like the 109. Will check and see if 109 has similar or not.
Cheers KC
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Post by Chris F on Mar 11, 2012 13:25:34 GMT 12
Having seen both the News and Stuff artical of the new NH-90 I must say how close it is to the AB-139 that Helicopters NZ operate out of New Plymouth to the offshore rigs.Having the AB-139 over flying several times a day they sound almost the same as the NH-90 and the looks are similar when viewed in the air. Apart from the red/white colour scheme verse the overall grey the looks are incredibly similar. One thing I must say is I hope the NH-90 are used for why we purchased them,to simply cover them in cotton wool to prolong their life cycle or to use the smaller more economical A109 to avoid the higher operating cost of the NH-90 that would have been fully known at purhase time to me beggs the question....why did we buy in the first place? If the cost limited numbers and the cost to operate are an issue then the machine was not the right fit surely. No one buys a Holden or Ford V8 if there budget only allows the running costs of a Suzuki Swift? The machines have been purchased and they have to be operated to full use no matter how small a numbers we have or how big the cost to operate is.....other wise they will end up as simple hangar lemons we bring out at special occasions with the A109 been the NZDF's main rotary machine. Helicopters NZ say the AB-139 is both a pleasure to fly and maintain compared to the Bell 412's....one must wonder why the cheaper off the shelf AB-139 was not purchased over the NH-90...was it even considered? If it is capability that one the day for the NH-90 then surely those that pay the bills must accept the higher costs and limited numbers for the capability they wanted. To me they purchased what looks a good machine that only future days can prove.
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Post by Naki on Mar 11, 2012 14:39:46 GMT 12
AW-139 = civilian specs. NH-90 = militarys specs.
I believe the AW-139 was looked at but I guess the RNZAF wanted an aircraft built to military specs. I think it came down to the UH-60 and NH-90 in the end. A military version of the AW-139 is proposed (the AW-149) but so far there are no firm buyers
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Post by htbrst on Mar 11, 2012 14:41:37 GMT 12
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Post by richard1098 on Mar 11, 2012 16:52:07 GMT 12
Not sure I like all the black checkers around the windows and doors. Yep, it does look a bit odd on the light mono colour Kiwi aircraft. But if you look at a camouflaged NH-90 painted in dark colours (and black) that hide the gaps between panels it makes more sense. Check out an Australian army example. In low ambient light conditions, or when your eyes are adjusting between bright and low light levels, I think those checkers would serve a useful purpose.
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Post by corsair67 on Mar 11, 2012 16:59:54 GMT 12
Not sure I like all the black checkers around the windows and doors. Yep, it does look a bit odd on the light mono colour Kiwi aircraft. But if you look at a camouflaged NH-90 painted in dark colours (and black) that hide the gaps between panels it makes more sense. Check out an Australian army example. In low ambient light conditions, or when your eyes are adjusting between bright and low light levels, I think those checkers would serve a useful purpose.
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Post by beagle on Mar 11, 2012 17:00:40 GMT 12
AW-139 = civilian specs. NH-90 = militarys specs. I believe the AW-139 was looked at but I guess the RNZAF wanted an aircraft built to military specs. I think it came down to the UH-60 and NH-90 in the end. A military version of the AW-139 is proposed (the AW-149) but so far there are no firm buyers Yeah, I think we made the right decision. Blackhawks would have done the job, but the "Warrior" has the few extras that will make it a more flexibale machine. ie, rear ramp, composite materials. Anything else would be either going back to Iroquois size and the next size up is say the merlin but with 3 engines, operating costs would have ruled it out. Give it ayear and some rescues performed and other civil duties etc and the crowd will be happy.
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Post by Chris F on Mar 11, 2012 17:19:19 GMT 12
The AB-139 has been in service with the Irish Air Corps since 2006! Not sure if this is a dedicated military version or not but the way the NZDF is heading a non military version would have been fine...just good search and rescue capability is all that is needed. Lets hope the NZDF use the NH-90 to its fullest!
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Post by richard1098 on Mar 11, 2012 20:11:16 GMT 12
and
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Post by beagle on Mar 11, 2012 21:46:40 GMT 12
apart from the serial number what is the major difference between these 2 almost same mrh-90's
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Post by richard1098 on Mar 11, 2012 22:12:43 GMT 12
apart from the serial number what is the major difference between these 2 almost same mrh-90's Reflecting the changes NHI introduced through the early build airframes, the initial 12 or so delivered to the Aus army and navy were built to three different build standards Once the final spec is developed all the early build aircraft will be returned to Australian Aerospace (the local subsidiary of Eurocopter and assembler of the ADF's MRH-90s and Tigers) for remanufacture to the final spec, meaning all 46 aircraft will be the same. With the NH-90 recently receiving its NATO certification, that final spec shouldn't be too far off.
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Post by beagle on Mar 12, 2012 4:32:52 GMT 12
oh ok i was referring to engine inlet installation
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Post by ngatimozart on Mar 13, 2012 12:18:40 GMT 12
I guess when you consider the A109 has more parts and more expensive parts at that, than a Sioux, its going to happen. Especially as they get more sophisticated. This happens with any product. Same can be said for the Huey and the NH90. Who were the suits in the cockpit of the NH90? Pollies parading? The Governer General Lt Gen Sir Gerry was in the port side seat and our illustriuos Minister of Defence was in the pilots seat.
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Post by strikemaster on Mar 13, 2012 18:27:29 GMT 12
I can imagine the banter, "look what we bought, pretty swish, eh?". "What's it called, then?".
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