Otaki RSA Former president to be charged

[meo4]

Former Otaki RSA president Don Moselen will be charged in court tomorrow with wearing medals he is not entitled to after donning Vietnam War medals at Anzac Day services.

Returned and Services' Association chief executive Stephen Clarke said he did not know of anyone else who had faced the charge in New Zealand.

Under the Military Decorations and Distinctive Badges Act, it is an offence to wear medals you are not entitled to, with offenders liable to be fined $500.

Police served Mr Moselen with a summons on Friday to appear in Levin District Court tomorrow to be charged with wearing medals he is not entitled to and another charge of using a document.

He described the medal charge as political and said he would be disputing aspects of the case but would not make a plea tomorrow.

He said he would stay on as Otaki community board chairman, ''certainly'' until the case was resolved.

He resigned as RSA president and welfare officer in January after a police investigation was launched in December when they received a written complaint.

Vietnam War veterans made an official complaint to national RSA headquarters in 2010 after becoming suspicious because they did not remember Moselen in Vietnam and Defence Force records showed no-one by that name had served there or was awarded medals.

A Defence Force spokesman said even if Mr Moselen had been on a secret mission, his name would be on the official role by now. They could not find a personal file for Mr Moselen, ''therefore could not verify his entitlement to any medals''.

The RSA asked Mr Moselen to stop wearing the medals in 2010 but he was seen wearing them again at Anzac Day commemorations last year.

A medal-mounter said Mr Moselen asked for service medals to be mounted so they could be worn in 2007. He became suspicious because the medals were not in correct grouping and Moselen said he wanted them mounted for the family of a deceased serviceman named Twaddle who served in Vietnam.

There are no records of a Twaddle serving in Vietnam.

Acting Otaki RSA president Phyllis Miles said Mr Moselen was still a member and visited the club but if he was found guilty his membership would have to be ''revisited''.

www.stuff.co.nz/national/6567481/Former-RSA-president-to-be-charged-over-medals

Sounds like a fruit loop to me why would anyone claim to be veteran of conflict when they weren't even there sort takes the piss to those who put their necks on the line and those who made the ultimate sacrifice.

[dakman]

Regarding military medal tradition .perhaps some one can advise .
is it permitted to wear medals not won by the person if
worn on the righthand side?

[jonesy]

Mar 14, 2012 21:59:57 GMT 12 dakman said:

Regarding military medal tradition .perhaps some one can advise .
is it permitted to wear medals not won by the person if
worn on the righthand side?

I believe that is the case. Seen quite often by younger family members on ANZAC day.

Just to add, the guy in this article may also be wearing medals of dubious origin...
www.republicofwadiya.com/biography.html

[Dave Homewood]

By a decree passed last year by the Governor General, you may wear medals on the right-hand side ONLY if you are the DIRECT descendant. Otherwise it is an illegal act. So that means son or daughter only I guess.

[gunny]

I agree with descendants wearing them on the right side but if N.Z's Governor General has decreed for descendants wearing them on the left, does that not leave out ascendants (parents) that have lost children in service with out thier kids having the chance to bare any children?
Also here in Queensland there were several Returned Services Leagues who are against the descendant wearing them either side as they say it is swamping the few who we have left and detracting.
Not stating my opinion but that's what they said

[Dave Homewood]

Sorry Gunny, I put you crook, I got my sides mixed, it is the right side the descendant has to wear it on. To paraphrase George Dubya Bush, "The left brain didn't type what the right brain was thinking."

None of my close relatives have or had medals so I don't have the problem. I might put in for one of those ones they're handing out now and wear it with pride for my own service, when they get round to the youngsters (I hope they don't run out before).

[lesterpk]

I checked the rules out over here recently in anticipation of ANZAC Day next month. Pretty much same as NZ, accepted protocol to wear your own on the left, and family members on the right. I have my fathers WW2 medals mounted, and they will be passed on to my oldest son when I die.

Not sure how I feel though about the trend I have seen in some parades to allow family members wearing a deceased soldiers medal to march with the returned service people.

[chinapilot]

There is a web site 'outing' NZ & Oz ones...

www.anzmi.net/cases.html

The problem is endemic in the States with many web sites devoted to outing false claims.

Lesterpk - I guess you won't be anguishing over the relatives marching in a few years as they will be the only ones...

Biggest 'crime' here is the statement that "his membership will be 'revisited' ...

[flyjoe180]

I'm glad this guy got caught out.

[Calum]

Mar 15, 2012 1:55:10 GMT 12 lesterpk said:

I checked the rules out over here recently in anticipation of ANZAC Day next month. Pretty much same as NZ, accepted protocol to wear your own on the left, and family members on the right. I have my fathers WW2 medals mounted, and they will be passed on to my oldest son when I die.

In Australia (thankfully) there is no law that says where you have to wear descendants medals. You can wear them anywhere/way you want. And if anyone tells you different, then tell them to stick it. I think it’s ridiculous that NZ have a law (decree?) for where you can wear descendants decorations.

Here any descendant can wear the medals, not just direct descendants. Again it seems stupid to limit it direct descendants. There are no WW1 vets and there direct descendants are getting on as well.

That said, convention is that if you are wearing medals that aren’t yours, they are worn on the right.

Mar 15, 2012 1:55:10 GMT 12 lesterpk said:

Not sure how I feel though about the trend I have seen in some parades to allow family members wearing a deceased soldiers medal to march with the returned service people.

This practice is pretty much accepted here, although every year some in the RSL have a bitch about grandkids marching with or without their (great) grandparents ) in the parade.

The general convention I’ve observed seems to be that those with descendants medals are expected to march behind the actual veterans, which is fair enough. But I have no objection to kids marching with their parents/ grandparents if that is what the veteran wants.

Heaven forbid we go down the path having “laws” for ANZAC day marches.

Here, the whole thing is IMHO, in danger becoming an excuse for overbearing acts of nationalistic jingoism these days as it is.

I don’t bother with the march these days (unless my kids are in it for school); I can do my remembering at home whenever I want..

[Dave Homewood]

Yes there is a huge difference between a proud grandson remembering his forebears and their sacrifice, and some jerk who wears medals he's not entitled to claiming them as his own to fraudulantly find favour among others.

I'm not sure why the Governor General decided to limit it to direct descendants, and i don't know if that includes grandchildren and their children, it may do. I suspect it may have trickled down from the UK perhaps? If it does include grandkids, etc then that's fine. I'd hate to see a dumb arse medal collector wearing his bought-on-trademe medals for the sake of it, without ever having known the person who sacrificed to be awarded them.

[shorty]

I think you may find that the descendants wearing medals is only permitted on ANZAC Day and Armistice (Memorial?)Day

[flyjoe180]

Wearing of Medals by Family Members

Next-of-kin and other relatives of deceased servicemen and women wearing their relative's medals has become common at ANZAC Day services since the 1990s. The wear of deceased relatives' medals is appropriate on specific occasions and under certain circumstances. This applies to both military and civilian next-of-kin and other relatives of former New Zealand services personnel. Medals must be worn on the right breast rather than the left to differentiate between former servicemen and women and next-of-kin or other relatives. The wearing of a relative's medals is a matter of personal discretion and limited to days of remembrance. Only service medals and decorations mounted on a medal bar (full-size or miniature) can be worn by a relative; neck badges, sashes, sash badges, or breast stars cannot be worn. The occasions on which wearing of relatives medals is permitted are confined to ANZAC Day (25 April) and Remembrance Day (11 November). In addition, it may be appropriate for next-of-kin and other relatives to wear relative's medals on an occasion where either the relative's service or the unit in which they served is being commemorated.

medals.nzdf.mil.nz/info/wearingmedals.html

[ngatimozart]

Direct descendants means grandchildren great grandchildren etc. As long as you arein a direct line then it's ok. So for example my great grandfather was a Boer War Veteran and my grandson (aged 6) would be allowed to wear his medals on his right side. With regard to the comment about descendants of deceased returned servicemen marching in ANZAC parades, I am all for it because you are remembering and honouring your ancestors service, plus the sacrifice of all those who died in the service of their country. It's simple as.

As far as wearing medals under false pretences, it should be a flogging offence. There are some cases where a cat of nine tails is the appropriate punishment and this is one of them.

[kb]

Mar 15, 2012 10:32:17 GMT 12 Calum said:

[quote

In Australia (thankfully) there is no law that says where you have to wear descendants medals. You can wear them anywhere/way you want. And if anyone tells you different, then tell them to stick it. I think it’s ridiculous that NZ have a law (decree?) for where you can wear descendants decorations.

Mar 15, 2012 1:55:10 GMT 12 lesterpk said:

There are always outstanding exceptions. Take the four Bradford boys in WW1 in the order in which they died.

Lieutenant James Bradford MC Died of wounds 1917.

Brigadier General Roland Bradford VC, MC, MiD Twice. Roland Bradford was an outstanding leader who during the war rose from Lieutenant to Brigadier General before being killed in action in 1917. I believe that at the time he was the youngest person to achieve that rank.

Lt. Commander George Bradford VC. MiD. Killed in action at Zeebrugge 1918 and awarded his VC posthumously.

Major Thomas Bradford DSO, MiD Twice. Thomas survived the war but was taken out of the front line before the end of the war probably because of what had happened to his brothers.

So what is all this about you are thinking. Well the boys mother was a widow who suffered a major break down as a result of losing three of her four sons. About the only time she appeared in public after that was at every Remembrance Day in Folkestone wearing her sons medals.

Who is there to tell someone like her where to wear them?

[Dave Homewood]

Further to what Joe posted:

Fraudulent Wearing of Medals

No person, with the exception of a direct descendant of a deceased service man or woman, may wear medals which have not been awarded to him or her personally. This also applies to the wearing of miniature medals and medal ribbons. In addition, no person may wear a medal or decoration awarded to them by a foreign government unless it has been approved for wear by the Sovereign. The Military Decorations and Distinctive Badges Act 1918 and the Military Decorations and Distinctive Badges Amendment Act 1974 refer

[gunny]

THAT makes more sense Dave, i thought the N.Z Gov Gen passed the left breast, but not much would surprise me these days.
Is the R.S.A a strong lobby group there as the R.S.L is here in aus? anyone know?
Also i have 2 medals on my left and 2 on my right including my Aussie Security Service medal, does this mean my kids will have to have them all mounted as 1 set when i pass?? sheesh this is confusing.

[Calum]

Mar 15, 2012 19:40:19 GMT 12 flyjoe180 said:

Wearing of Medals by Family Members

Next-of-kin and other relatives of deceased servicemen and women wearing their relative's medals has become common at ANZAC Day services since the 1990s. The wear of deceased relatives' medals is appropriate on specific occasions and under certain circumstances. This applies to both military and civilian next-of-kin and other relatives of former New Zealand services personnel. Medals must be worn on the right breast rather than the left to differentiate between former servicemen and women and next-of-kin or other relatives. The wearing of a relative's medals is a matter of personal discretion and limited to days of remembrance. Only service medals and decorations mounted on a medal bar (full-size or miniature) can be worn by a relative; neck badges, sashes, sash badges, or breast stars cannot be worn. The occasions on which wearing of relatives medals is permitted are confined to ANZAC Day (25 April) and Remembrance Day (11 November). In addition, it may be appropriate for next-of-kin and other relatives to wear relative's medals on an occasion where either the relative's service or the unit in which they served is being commemorated.

medals.nzdf.mil.nz/info/wearingmedals.html

Apart from serving service members what right does the NZDF have to dicate when and where people can wear these medals.

If I chose to wear any of my descendants medals every day of the week thats up to me (sure I'd look like a tool but thats nothing unusual ) What would they do?

Again this is different from wearing medals you're not entitled to. Although I don't that this is really worthy of a criminal offence,(unless being used to claim allowances not entitled to).

It's just sad really.

[Calum]

Mar 16, 2012 4:01:12 GMT 12 gunny said:

THAT makes more sense Dave, i thought the N.Z Gov Gen passed the left breast, but not much would surprise me these days.
Is the R.S.A a strong lobby group there as the R.S.L is here in aus? anyone know?
Also i have 2 medals on my left and 2 on my right including my Aussie Security Service medal, does this mean my kids will have to have them all mounted as 1 set when i pass?? sheesh this is confusing.

In Australia, from what I remember (this comes up every year on the ADF intranet) If you're not a serving member of the ADF then you can wear the medals wherever you want. And if some little Nazi gets up then tell him to stick it.

The same applies to you kids. They could wear them where ever they want or wear one each. After they are wearing them to commemorate you and your service first and foremost. Anyway that does that should be fine.

However if you wanted them mounted in one set for your kids then a good medal mounter should know which order of precedence they go

but

[Dave Homewood]

Mar 16, 2012 8:00:46 GMT 12 Calum said:

Apart from serving service members what right does the NZDF have to dicate when and where people can wear these medals.

It is not, as far as I'm aware, the NZDF that dictates the rules around service medals, it is the Crown, with directives from her Majesty, and here through the Governor General. It is the Monarch who sanctions the establishment of the medals, and the approves the issuing of them, and the Crown pays for them being struck. Not NZDF. It is not just military, the Fire Service and police Service also have medals under the same rules. I think even the Prison Service has medals, does it not? And there are also civil medals like the George Medal and George Cross, etc, all under the same system.

Mar 16, 2012 8:00:46 GMT 12 Calum said:

If I chose to wear any of my descendants medals every day of the week thats up to me (sure I'd look like a tool but thats nothing unusual ) What would they do?

Again this is different from wearing medals you're not entitled to. Although I don't that this is really worthy of a criminal offence,(unless being used to claim allowances not entitled to).

It's just sad really.

Firstly you mean ancestors, not descendants, unless your children have been awarded medals?

And as I see it, if you are not the person who was awarded the medal/s, you are not 'entitled' to wear it/them. Even if it was your father's, you have no right to wear it outside of ANZAC Day and Remembrnace Day, during which you have been given entitlement to wear it on the right breats, as a mark of respect and remembrace for their service. Outside of those days under law, you have no entitlement and should not feel you do.

I agree it's sad, but that is how the system works.