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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 27, 2006 17:09:28 GMT 12
On April 1st 2007 the RNZAF will turn 70.
I see they are to hold a two day open day and airshow at Whenuapai to mark the event.
Does anyone know whether any foreign air forces will visit to help NZ celebrate?
Any rumours circulating?
Also, I wonder will there be a special aircraft painted up like the 50th Golden Scooter?
Perhaps you can send in your suggestions here... what would you really like to see at the Whenuapai 70th airshow, apart from our own Air Force and the NZ Warbirds, etc?
And which aircraft would you select to paint in special colours?
Will there be airshow events to mark the anniversary at Ohakea, Woodbourne or Wigram too?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 27, 2006 17:10:36 GMT 12
Hey, I just clicked - RAAF jet/s at Omaka this Easter - just after this event. Maybe there will be the Roullettes or the Hornet display team, etc?
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Post by phil on Aug 27, 2006 17:22:45 GMT 12
I doubt you will see any jets.
Even RAAF ones, don't want to remind the masses what we no longer have.
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Post by lesterpk on Aug 27, 2006 19:40:52 GMT 12
Have heard nothing about a 2 dayer, you might find its pencilled in for both as a weather option. Last year it was show on the Saturday with Sunday being the rain date. I'll try to remember to have a look through the 701A (RNZAF Annual Plan) tomorrow and see if there is any mention of it.
Les.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 27, 2006 20:05:28 GMT 12
Thanks Les. I was making that assumption byt the two days on Stu's NZ Warbirds page but you may be right. I hope they at least put a bit of effort in for the 70th. Phil - too late, we've seen the F-111 at Wanaka... WE WANT JETS, WE WANT JETS.....   |
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Post by phil on Aug 27, 2006 20:25:50 GMT 12
Yes, but Wanaka was not an RNZAF event now was it?
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Post by Calum on Aug 27, 2006 22:27:43 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 27, 2006 22:36:04 GMT 12
Do Govt and Air Staff feel that strongly that have to censor combat jets out of the history of the RNZAF? I mean, a few years ago shielding the RNZAf staff was one thing (and bad enough) but anyone who wanted to work with jets would have 717'd by now and those left know they have a snowball's chance of getting any. So why the hell would they not take the opportunity to welcome some allies with interesting jets that might be great airshow performers. It'd be really good public relations in terms of bonding with allies.
I guess if this policy of no jets is true this means no Vampires, no Hunter, no Dragonfly allowed either? After all, they're just as likely to make the public think jet fighters are cool as an F-111 or whatever overseas air forces might bring.
They could however invite one of the Russian Sukhoi or Mig teams to attend as the NZ public would feel happy in the knowledge that we can't afford them.
And if they did their usual party trick of a nasty collision, that'd seal the deal in dissuading the public from wanting those noisy dangerous things that go bang back in our gentle little RNZAF.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 27, 2006 22:42:54 GMT 12
Great photos Calum!
I see Auckland put on its usual weather fo the event.
It's interesting to see the instructional airframe Vampire, I wonder if that was Herc'd up from Woody or Wigram for the day, or if it was based at Auckland then.
I spy a Caribou too.
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Post by steve on Aug 28, 2006 0:53:30 GMT 12
The last thing this labour lead govt wants to do is to encourage young men into the aspirations of being a fighter pilot in the RNZAF like their dad or Grandpa whatever..having even fighter trainers at such a display would not ecourage their social engineering plans...dropping food parcels from white painted planes (all female gay crewed if possible) would be the ideal... Back in the 1980s I was a strong labour party supporter in fact my family new Labour PM Norn Kirk very welll... he knighted my Grandfather...with a KBE..Gee...ten years on I joined the Mt Albert Labour Party (Helens Clarkes electorate) ...I knew i or them were on a different planet when we were alll asked to sit on the floor in a circle and discuss issues while the seats remained vacant beside us? stange lot exactly the same as the greens today...
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Post by phil on Aug 28, 2006 9:52:43 GMT 12
Do Govt and Air Staff feel that strongly that have to censor combat jets out of the history of the RNZAF? I mean, a few years ago shielding the RNZAf staff was one thing (and bad enough) but anyone who wanted to work with jets would have 717'd by now and those left know they have a snowball's chance of getting any. So why the hell would they not take the opportunity to welcome some allies with interesting jets that might be great airshow performers. It'd be really good public relations in terms of bonding with allies. I guess if this policy of no jets is true this means no Vampires, no Hunter, no Dragonfly allowed either? After all, they're just as likely to make the public think jet fighters are cool as an F-111 or whatever overseas air forces might bring. They could however invite one of the Russian Sukhoi or Mig teams to attend as the NZ public would feel happy in the knowledge that we can't afford them. And if they did their usual party trick of a nasty collision, that'd seal the deal in dissuading the public from wanting those noisy dangerous things that go bang back in our gentle little RNZAF. Until I see anything to the contrary I'd say you've summed things up quite well. You will note that the last two Ohakea open days have not been classed as 'Airshows' and have not had the historic jet aircraft like the Vampire present. Unlike the last real Airshow (2000 perhaps?? the date escapes me, I just remember being on carpariking..) which was timed to coincide with he presence of the RAAF Hornets and F111s, and had the vampire et al on show as well. This year's open day could have had an F111 here (it was here the week after for Wanaka) and didn't. We don't even have a vampire as a gate guard anymore...although officially that is because it is not structurally sound enough to sit on the pole! |
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Post by phil82 on Aug 28, 2006 10:16:13 GMT 12
"Do Govt and Air Staff feel that strongly that have to censor combat jets out of the history of the RNZAF?"
I doubt that anyone in any authority has anything whatsoever to do with 'censoring' Dave. Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away........air forces world-wide had pretty much a licence to do as they wished with there assets. In our case, when we decided to have a big airshow such as the opening of Mangere Airport, we simply sent out invitations to all our friends in the RAF, RAAF, and USAF, and they turned up dressed to party.
Then the peace-dividend arrived, and the bean-counters in all of those countries, including our own, started looking at ways and means of slashing spending in Defence in order to fund every other pet project politicians constantly come up with in order to ensure they stay in power. Defence spending is a dirty word in Parliament. All Western air forces have had resources slashed: the RAF will be down to less than 42,000 people in the none too distant future, and RNZAF strength at at 3200 is 1000 less than it used to be not that long ago.
So I don't think it's a case of not wnaning to encourage displays rather than the flyable assets are simply not there any more. Big air shows 'in-house', that is in NZ, with overseas perticipation, are a thing of the past, especially as Helen has put us off-side with the Americans.
Where is that Venom these days by the away? I worked with them once!
{I'm not really that old Steve! A mere lad of 66!]
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Post by corsair67 on Aug 28, 2006 10:43:38 GMT 12
I'm sure that there would be RAAF participation; let's just hope that it takes the form of some Hornets or F-111s coming across the Tasman for the event. In the end I'd hate to think that Clark is dictating to the NZDF what sort of aircraft that they can have visit an airshow: but nothing that bitch does surprises me anymore! Maybe she'll send Harmeet Sooden and Keith Locke along to keep an eye on things?  Anyway, looks like I should plan to be home around the end of March then? ;D |
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Post by phil on Aug 28, 2006 12:20:06 GMT 12
I doubt that anyone in any authority has anything whatsoever to do with 'censoring' Dave. ! Guess again. having spent the years 2001-2005 involved deeply with the NZDF PR machine I can say that this is what went on. Do a search for my posts and you will find a fine example of this in action. And a fine example of getting around it too. |
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Post by skyhawkdon on Aug 28, 2006 15:35:54 GMT 12
The Vampire in Calum's photos would have been from 1TTS which in those days was at Hobby.
As for the comments about the RNZAF PR machine the "smoke and mirrors" it is still going on - I and others have been trying to get answers (the truth) about the sale of the Skyhawks and Macchi's for a couple of years and all we are getting is BS. It seems that the Air Combat Force is now a dirty word amongst most senior Officers in the NZDF. To publically mention it or admit you actually disagreed with the decision to scrap it is not good for ones career. Instead you will get carefully worded sentences like "... agree with the rationale... or ... the RNZAF has moved on..."
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Post by phil82 on Aug 28, 2006 16:52:40 GMT 12
That's probably the senior 'head-shed' policy rather than 'PR' Don, and it's been in vogue since none of them had the balls to stand up and say what they really thought! Even in the article on Lintott on Saturday, he said he was annoyed by people asking "have we got an air force?", when "we've moved on from that". Had he said " we have an air force without teeth" he'd be looking for a job on Monday. That's not PR, it's Policy, and the two should not be confused. You won't get a definitive answer on what's happening to the Skyhawks, because it is as politically sensitive as is any cock-up which cost millions every year, and Helen doesn't want bad press. My guess is they'll never be sold as aircraft, but may end up as crates of useful spare parts for some one the Americans like.
A guy by the name of Trenchard once stated the sole and only purpose of an air force was to project power, and to a man, all of our senior people at the time bowed their collective heads to Helen in denial of that edict. All those that did stand up were retired and were labelled "geriatrics" by Helengrad in a deliberate attempt to discredit them. There were at least two former Chiefs of Defence Staff in there, one of them Sir Richard Bolt!
I've said it before, and I'll say it again; the very best brains the air force produce leave at Sqn Ldt/Wg Cmdr level, because you have to be a political animal to become an airship!
Why did I leave as a Sqn Ldr with a Permanent Commission? I didn't like what was happening to "my" air force, and that it was been driven by far too many "direct entry" jobsworths waving MBAs but who had absolutely no idea of air force ethos. The RNZAF was simply a job, nothing more, nothing less.
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Post by phil82 on Aug 28, 2006 17:22:22 GMT 12
The Greens are today's Luddites Steve, and they practice the same policy: that cultural change necessarily involves resistance to change. The term Luddite has been resurrected from a previous era to describe one who distrusts or fears the inevitable changes brought about by new technology. The original Luddite revolt occurred in 1811, an action against the English Textile factories that displaced craftsmen in favor of machines. Today's Luddites continue to raise moral and ethical arguments against the excesses of modern technology to the extent that our inventions and our technical systems have evolved to control us rather than to serve us and to the extent that such leviathans can threaten our essential humanity
The Greens leader was on Wellington Railway Station last week collecting signatures to keep the Northerner running, despite the fact that I would out money on the fact that Fitzsimons has never ever used it! Keith Locke is an idiot, and living proof that not everything in life has a purpose!
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Post by corsair67 on Aug 28, 2006 22:18:26 GMT 12
Colin, I couldn't agree more with some of your comments. The NZDF HQ seems to be full of "prostitutes" who will do anything to appease Clark, so long as she tickles their tummies every now and again! It makes me sick to think that they can remain loyal to her while she pisses on the RNZAF. Mind you, I think there are plenty of those types over here in the ADF too, but at least Howard isn't trying to get rid of sharp end of the ADF! |
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Post by Bruce on Aug 28, 2006 22:41:43 GMT 12
Regarding the Whenuapai photos (sorry to sidetrack from the important discussion to hand...  ) I was at that show, and a dern good one it was. there was an example of every type of RNZAF aircraft in the static park, and I had a walk thru an Andover, F27, Herk and Orion. I also had a look inside the RAAF caribou - there were two of those, plus 4 each (or thereabouts) F18s and F111s. The RAF contigent had a Tristar and VC10 (complete with a stuffed Lion in looking out the cockpit window). This was the first outing for the warbirds DC3 - still in its BPA colour scheme! The rain was memeorable too - it came through several times throughout the day and everyone crowded underneath the aircraft wings - looked really funny! Was the USAF C141 Starlifter at this show or the 1982 show my Mum and Dad took me to? |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 28, 2006 22:58:34 GMT 12
There's a point, why not have some of the US aircraft from Harewood present? It'd be rude not to invite them at least, they're already here. I suppose by April they'll be back home?
Back the the main point of the thread (not the politics), which aircraft should be painted up to represent the RNZAF's 70th? I think a CY/4E could make a great one as it could be used to lead the Red Checkers plus it is NZ designed and built and the Airtrainer type has been in RNZAF service for more than 30 of those 70 years.
Or maybe a temporary scheme on the Harvard NZ1015?
Does the Historic Flight's Tiger Moth get out much these days? I have heard nothing more of it since it left Wigram or Ohakea. Does it still do airshows? Or even just get used as a pilot trainer like it used to at CFS, Wigram?
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) I was at that show, and a dern good one it was. there was an example of every type of RNZAF aircraft in the static park, and I had a walk thru an Andover, F27, Herk and Orion. I also had a look inside the RAAF caribou - there were two of those, plus 4 each (or thereabouts) F18s and F111s. The RAF contigent had a Tristar and VC10 (complete with a stuffed Lion in looking out the cockpit window). This was the first outing for the warbirds DC3 - still in its BPA colour scheme! The rain was memeorable too - it came through several times throughout the day and everyone crowded underneath the aircraft wings - looked really funny! Was the USAF C141 Starlifter at this show or the 1982 show my Mum and Dad took me to?