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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 22, 2012 20:13:51 GMT 12
I've sent you an email Dave.
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Post by davelochead on Jul 23, 2012 14:42:14 GMT 12
The plot thickens, I have been sent a pic of reg during his training, as you can see, he doesnt feature in the pics at all Attachments:
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jul 23, 2012 15:09:38 GMT 12
Hmm
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Post by davelochead on Jul 23, 2012 17:38:13 GMT 12
My aunt will catch up with reg in the next day or so with the pics to see if he can put names to the faces.
His memory is failing and he is far too frail to travel to Armore unfortunately :-(
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Post by davelochead on Jul 23, 2012 19:45:27 GMT 12
could the guy in the middle of the pic of 3 officers be Ian Medwin? Attachments:
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Post by davelochead on Jul 23, 2012 19:48:44 GMT 12
W/Cdr I Smith, 487 Squadron 1944 Attachments:
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exile01
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 7
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Post by exile01 on Jan 9, 2013 10:29:43 GMT 12
Imagine my surprise on seeing the great photos at the start of this thread. I can confirm 100% that the officer in the middle of the group portrait is indeed Sqn/Ldr Walter Jack Runciman AFC DFM. I have a copy of the first photo, showing the nose art, in my family snaps folder, since he was my father - but the group portrait is new to me - great! It's sobering to think that he was 23 at the time.
No-one has yet commented on the nose art above the bombs, which seems to begin the "Ch and possibly end with "ff" - could it be "Chaff", "Chuffed"? What do the white bombs mean? Were they for leaflet drops?
As to the date of the photo, it can be placed between 18th June 1944 and 2nd Feb. 1945, when 487 Sqn. was based at Thorney Island (apart from a period in December, when spent some time at Rosières-en-Santerre in Northern France). If W/Cdr. Porteous is indeed shown in the photos and was OC No. 487 at the time, then this would narrow it down to between Aug. 44 and Jan. 45, when he was in charge. According to the Squadron ORB for July (which I ordered from the UK National Archives just yesterday - wonderful same-day service, the pdf files arriving as soon as the order had been placed!), my father was promoted to Squadron Leader between 19th and 24th July (although the London Gazette announced his promotion to Acting S/L on Jan. 14, 1944). Can anyone determine his rank at the time of the photos? Are there more photos from the same day, showing his rank?
Another snippet from the ORB summary for July: Ernest Hemingway dropped by for a visit one day!
Happy New Year to all!
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philr
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 9
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Post by philr on Jan 13, 2013 8:53:53 GMT 12
The photograph may have been after the raid on the Gestapo barracks at Bonneuil Matours on July 14th or those at Poitiers on August 1st. My father's log book has an aerial photograph of the latter after the raid.
His tour finished at the end of September 44. He first flew with 487 on 2nd May 1944. A few days before his friend Phil Lamason went missing over France. I was named after him.
Phil Runciman
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 13, 2013 10:59:10 GMT 12
Thanks for that guys.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 13, 2013 19:49:03 GMT 12
Phil, I just tried to respond to your latest email and it bounced back twice, not sure why, so I'll send a Personal Message via the forum here, hopefully you will get it ok. Look at the very top right hand side of the forum next to the picture banner (currently Hudsons) to see the link to your inbox.
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exile01
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 7
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Post by exile01 on Jan 15, 2013 1:45:01 GMT 12
A minor correction to philr's post: Wally Runciman joined No. 487 in March 1944 after attending an air gunnery course (on Mosquito IIIs) with 1482 Gunnery Flight, Swanton Morley (20 - 24 March 1944).
His first logbook entry with No.487 at Hunsdon is dated 27 March 1944 and is described as L.F.P. (low flying practice?) without a navigator, after which he and E.R.G. Jones teamed up for the rest of his tour . His first enemy operation was on April 11 to Montdidier (a patrol, nothing seen) followed on 18 April by a Noball operation (location 106) with 4x 500lb. and "fireworks".
After more ops he went (with F/O Jones) in May to Swanton Morley for a week, to 1508 Radar Flight, for a Radar course (i.e. G-H) on FBVIs.
When he joined 487 the CO was W/C I.S. Smith (he performed a "C.O.'s check flight" with him on April 22); as already mentioned, W/C R.C. Porteous to over as CO in August. Porteous signed off the logbook summary at the end of the tour of 43 operations on Sept. 30 1944.
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exile01
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 7
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Post by exile01 on Jan 16, 2013 1:48:18 GMT 12
There's a 'new' piece of information which might sort out the identification of the Mosquito in the background of the above photos from Thorney Island: I have just reached a point in the analysis of the ORBs from June - August 1944 at which it has become clear that the squadron reassigned the letter codes in early August '44, assigning 'A' to HP933; 'U' was assigned to HR177 at the same time. This is confirmed by an end-of-tour photo (late Sept. '44) showing EG-A in the background. I'm still not 100% convinced that the upright stroke of the letter on the ladder is part of an 'A', but it's now at least a possibility. They could even have borrowed a ladder from another crew, so it would be circumstantial evidence anyway. And we're still no wiser about the Nose Art!
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philr
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 9
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Post by philr on Jan 16, 2013 7:42:40 GMT 12
I should have printed out the pages of the log book after I scanned them and sent them to Tracey! The actual log book is starting to have the stitching fall apart with all this referencing. It is getting more use than during the war.
This is not the first time Tracey has corrected me. :-)
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philr
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 9
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Post by philr on Jan 17, 2013 6:57:01 GMT 12
Do you know from your data the start and finish dates of the posting to 487 Squadron? The log book does not state these and I do not trust the final service record in the log book. I think that squadron records would be more accurate even if they were less official. :-) Phil
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 17, 2013 7:34:07 GMT 12
Phil, is there not a list of his posting on the inside back cover? There usually is.
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exile01
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 7
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Post by exile01 on Jan 18, 2013 8:24:49 GMT 12
The notice of posting must have preceded the logbook entries by some time, so that e.g. the Gunnery Flight course at Swanton Morley could be arranged. The first entry there, 20 March 1944, might well be the de facto first day on the squadron's payroll. If there was any OCU time on Mosquitos prior to that, that would also have been preparation for joining 487.
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philr
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 9
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Post by philr on Jan 18, 2013 11:42:05 GMT 12
You are correct. Swanton Morley 19/3/44 to 27/3/44. 487 Hunsdon 27/3/44 to 17/4/44 487 Gravesend 17/4/44 to 18/6/44 487 Thorney Island 18/6/44 to 16/10/44
The latter date begs the question about his last operation with 487 being 22/9/44 Roger Porteous's assessment being 24/9/44 and there being entries in the log book for Stirling and Lancaster flights between 12/10/44 and 28/10/44 at 31 Base F.I.S. and No.3 L.F.S. Feltwell. There is some overlap.
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philr
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 9
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Post by philr on Jan 18, 2013 12:07:37 GMT 12
His very last flight with the RNZAF was on 1/3/1946 in TA342 with S/L Johnson AND F/O Jennings from and returning to HCU Cottesmore. It was a return flight to Spitalgate. Maybe swapping Johnson & Jenning?
Today I saw Mosquito EG-Y take to the air for Wings Over Wairarapa. It returns on Monday before being sent to the USA.
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philr
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 9
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Post by philr on Jan 24, 2013 8:31:29 GMT 12
In the interests of accuracy my father's posting began in March 1944 and ended in October 1944 and he had two ops in April 1944. May-Sept were very busy months. I missed the two April 1944 ops because there was a logbook page with no ops preceding it.
We have a set of 4 photographs of which 2 were taken on the same day. The other two were with "ERGO" Jones at the end of his tour. The nose art on this mosquito is different to the one in question, which suggests that one of them is not HP933. This is a shame because I wanted to find out what the white bombs meant. I could have counted back through from the final operation back to that concerned to find out. Were they incendaries?
Phil Runciman
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Post by skydancer on Mar 15, 2013 21:39:40 GMT 12
Hi Phil,
I've just joined the forum, have dropped you a PM.
All the best, Michael
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