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Post by phil on Dec 19, 2006 8:04:37 GMT 12
No it's not pick on Supply week.
We do work very closely with the guys in our flight store and have a very good relationship with them.
Dave - YASL is Yakka apparel Solutions Ltd or somesuch. The civy company that holds all our clothing stock.
The contracting out of consumables hasn't necessarily been a great success from our point of view, although it is better now than it was initially. Having 'Local purchase' in Auckland (hardly local) was not very helpful either. EBP has made life a bit easier in that sense, but we do wonder why we now seem to be doing a lot of the suppliers job for them. In the 'Old days' we'd go to the suppliers with a product catalogue and say we need this, then a couple of weeks later it would turn up. Now we have to get the quotes, we have to raise the request, and we have to reciept the item in.
And I still have to wait 6 months for a new buy for a hoist component that takes two weeks to arrive from America once the suppliers actually get their part of the job done.
The best working relationship in the world is no good if the system fails, which it does, every day. The only thing that keeps us ticking along is the switched on suppliers that know how to circumvent the system and get us our parts after the computer has failed to print a pick ticket, or the parts haven't arrived from mainstore three days after we order them (I mean, 3 days to travel 500m? We can't go and get the parts ourselves any more) or haven't arrived from Auckland 10 days after I've ordered them.
The individuals in supply are great, very helpful and customer focused.
Most of the time when we order something from the contractors it actually arrives, rather than what they think we might want. When we first started using the contractors we'd order a maglite bulb and get a cheap arlec knock off that wouldn't fit. I had to get an entire mini mag light just for the spare bulb. Or I'd order super strength araldite (becuase the book called for it) and I would end up getting the 5 minute variety.
Contracting out the clothing is still a PITA, you go to the clothing store to size up a pair of shoes, order them on the computer, and the ones that turn up are nothing like the ones you tried on and don't fit! There is a lot to be said for trying on the item you will be walking out the door with. Although the advantage is that as long as you can swing it past your boss, you can have anything you want.
Contracting all these services out might be saving the air force money somewhere, but it is not really helping us get the job done any better, at least not from a shop floor perspective.
The latest scheme is that now the suppliers are supposed to be allocating the maintenance work to a bay, based on the capacity within the system that is available. They have set up a supply cell dedicated to allocating the workload to the bays.
I don't want the suppliers giving me work, I want them to give me PARTS, so I can do all the work I already have! What will happen is that this new cell will allocate some work to my bay, and I will immediately change it's status to 'awaiting parts'. That will free up this theoretical capacity so the suppliers can give me more work, which will be changed to 'awaiting parts'. I forsee this going on for some time, until the two suppliers on base that are still responsible for supplying things (other than work) finally get me my parts, then bingo, I am suddenly 500% over my capacity becuase I have taken all those jobs out of 'awaiting parts' and into work in progress!
This concept was apparently thought up by civilian consultants after visiting workplaces and analysing our processes... Apparently the air force isn't efficient enough or something. Do we need to make a profit? No. Do we need to meet operational outputs? Yes. Do meet those outputs? Yes, when we have the parts to do the work.
So no, I don't really think anyone has problems with the individuals within the supply trade, we work very closely with them. Unfortunately the best ones get frustrated and leave (ours just left this week) I think it's the system that is gradually defeating us.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 19, 2006 8:35:18 GMT 12
Sean,
I often wondered what trade you are in. Apologies if this thread seems to bash the suppliers, but I think there are a lot of very fair points here of how frustrating the system - not-so-much the people - can be. And from Phil's comments above it sounds worse than before.
At least you've confirmed a long held suspicion that often supply difficulties were down to personality difficulties. I was always polite and courteous to everyone on the base, but my Sgt wasn't. In fact he was an obnoxious git. When I ordered items his signature would usually be on the forum. Hence the reason my parts would take so long I guess.
I would have thought that the operational requirements of the aircraft would always take precedent over personality clashes, but obviously not. Yes, there were some right jumped up gits on the Techo side, but lets face it, you only had to deal with them when they ordered something. We had to work in sections with them all the time!
Oh well. Carry on the good fight chaps. :-)
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Post by phil on Dec 19, 2006 8:47:06 GMT 12
There's a world of difference between providing the service you are required to provide, and providing the service to someone that has not annoyed you.
We have a particular plonker at Ohakea, in charge of a unit that uses the services of the armoury a great deal. Now this guy has made a real name for himself, like returning from a range shoot at 1615, and insisting on cleaning his weapons unitil 1745, and making the key orderly wait around. Even after having the suggestion made that he was more than welcome to come back and clean them the next morning. Nor has the suggestion that since he knows it takes more than an hour to clean the wepons, how abut planning his day a bit more efficiently?
Anyway, this guy now gets the bare minumum service that we are required to provide, we absolutely will not make any effort to do anything more for him than necessary. If he wants something from the gun room and they are not there, tough. For anyone else the hoist bay are happy to help out if there is no one next door, but for this guy, sorry - we're busy working on hoists, we aren't the gun bay, come back later.
As a rule we will bend over backwards to help out anyone who asks, but make a name for youself and you get the bare minimum. Most units now treat this guy the same way. He just does not seem to understand the concept that he relies on us for the running of his unit, yet he purposefully goes out of his way to annoy us.
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Post by SEAN on Dec 19, 2006 9:50:09 GMT 12
Hi Phil
I seem to have hit a nerve.... not intentional I assure you.
Being a Supplier, I personally feel things have got better over the years. We do not have to worry about the "rats & mice" anymore, and can get on with getting the MILSPEC parts that you guys need to do your job. I am sure that as the Tech world gets more familiar with JEMS, life should be easier for people on the floor, but not necessarily for the Techs (planners etc) that will spend a lot more time on a computer, as opposed to on the floor.
I guess form a Tech perspective EBP has meant a bit more work for you, but for the rest of the NZDF, it has meant a lot less work. I guess this is where the "savings" come in to it.
The various computer systems implemented over the years have been good, but were nothing compared to the SAP system we now have. The problem is that anyone who gets good on SAP soon finds that they can get paid $10-15K more for doing the same job as a civilian. You Techo's will soon find out this fact, it will not be long, now that you have JEMS, that your "smarter" SAP users will start disappearing to greener fields, you did not have this with ALIS, cause it was really an old system.
I too was not all that happy with the amount of contracting we now do, but like you we just do what we are told, and to use the tools we have. I know there are issues with some of the contractors we now have, but I again personally feel things are getting better on this front. There were some initial teething problems, but as things have matured the issues seem to be getting less and less. If you are not happy with a contractors performance, there are ways you can voice your concerns (the SCAR), and these are taken seriously and are reported on, and more importantly are discussed with the contractors at regular intervals, I know this for a fact, as I attend these meetings, and the contractors have to explain why what happened actually happened.
Shoot I don't blame you for not wanting Suppliers allocating work to the bays. This must be post JEMS, as I have never heard of this.... Sounds completely stupid, this is not our business. Sounds like someone is trying to make a name for themselves.
I do feel we now have to many "layers" in Defence, that can sometimes hinder progress. I was not a fan of the Log Wing concept, and am glad that they are reinventing this. We also have the LJSO coming on line, and I don't think this will help much either.
I guess what I am trying to say , is that we just have to do the best with what we have got. I feel we do now have the best computer system, and once the techs are familiar with it, we should be better than we have ever been, as you guys will then be able to see exactly the same picture as we see, and vice versa....
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Post by phil82 on Dec 19, 2006 10:06:35 GMT 12
'twas always that way Phil!
%00 metres? That's not a lot, but I recall that Te Rapa, when it held the clothing stock for the air force as a Depot, also issue to Units, including Te Rapa! If Te Rapa, the unit, didn't have what you required, it was ordered from the Depot, all of 200 meters away, and it could take two or three days!
Also, I recall Te Rapa holding a considerable quantity of Harvard spares, three years after the Harvards were sold! In 1979, there were still some Catalina bits an pieces in there!
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Post by phil on Dec 19, 2006 13:48:18 GMT 12
Hi Sean, you haven't hit a nerve, not to worry about that!
JEMS is ok, albeit way more complicated than it needs to be from our perspective, even though it is a 'new' program, it really does feel like it has been cobled together on the cheap. I think it is the randomness of the interface that bothers most people. Some pages have nicely labeled buttons, other pages need you to go to the drop down menus and other pages have little icons with no labels, and they are all used in different parts of the program to do the same thing! I was fortunate to be running a bay when it came online, and by the end of the first week had been forced to get to grips with most of our processes pretty thoroughly. I rememeber I was raising a pubs ammendment the first afternoon we had access so I'm fairly confident with it myself.
The suppliers scheduling work was something we were briefed on during our initial training, it hasn't come to pass yet (thankfully), I'm not sure what the time frame for implementing it is, the longer the better.
I admit that the contractor side of things has improved a great deal, most of the sizing issues with Yakka relate to new models of shoes coming in, and the clothing store not being able to update their sizing stock to the new styles.
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Post by corsair67 on Dec 19, 2006 14:01:10 GMT 12
Phil, what is the quality of the Yakka clothing like?
Do they supply the whole uniform to the RNZAF, or is it only stuff like overalls, workboots, etc?
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Post by phil on Dec 19, 2006 14:43:35 GMT 12
YASL (yakka apparel solutions) have the contract to supply all our clothing, where they get it all made I'm not sure, I think the overalls etc are Yakka brand, but I've just checked three different uniform items and all three have different manufacturers names on them. My current work boots are Blundstone and my combat boots are Hi-tech Magnums. One pair of wet weathers are made by arthur ellis ltd the other by Kathmandu. I guess it's who ever is the cheapest bidder at the time!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 19, 2006 16:56:41 GMT 12
I'm sure I read that Hills Hats, which made the Armed Forces hats and hats for other services like Police since before the war, closed down recently. What a shame, they were NZ's best known hat factory but foreign imports put them out of business..
I recall the two brands of parade/work shoes airmen had when I was int eh RNZAF were Monarchs and Deltas. I had Deltas. I was amused when i started to collect WWII RNZAF Contact magazines and saw regular adverts for Monarchs - so they were the same style of shoes in the RNZAF for at least fifty years.
How did this thread start again? Oh right, 75 Sqn...
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Post by phil on Dec 19, 2006 17:53:31 GMT 12
Well the shoes are one thing they have got right these days. They are very comfortable with soft rubber soles and decent padding and innersoles, and what's even better is they are shiny enough for parades right out of the box. Not patent shiny, but pretty good.
They don't last bugger all though, the soles split quite easily. But as we say, there's plenty more in the computer!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 19, 2006 18:03:00 GMT 12
My Deltas are still good as new even today though i don't shine them as much as i used to. i only wear them for special occasions, and damn they're stiff and hard. I don't know how i wore them everyday for four and a half years. Must have been tougher in those days.
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Post by Bruce on Dec 20, 2006 7:52:00 GMT 12
Would this get the prize for most off - topic thread for 2006 ?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 20, 2006 8:59:37 GMT 12
Yes.
Or perhaps "topic challenged" :-)
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Mike
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 6
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Post by Mike on Feb 16, 2007 11:54:18 GMT 12
I know it has been a while since this thread was added to but I was having a good ole larff at what has been said. Yes I agree that this should get the gong for the most of-topic thread of the year. Yes we all seem to pick on the grocers don't we, this was always true even in my day in Admin.
Anyways at one time before I was in Admin I was in the driving trade, and it was about the late 70s that I was taskd as duty refueller at 3 Sqn at Hobby. One day there was a Navy Wasp doing a few 'tricks' on the airfield. Remember it was mid winter at the time. The pilot tried for a harder than usual landing and in the process the main rotor struck the tail boom of the a/c almost slicing it off. You see the trick was to land as if on a ship, but as most pilots are a sandwich short of a picnic, he didn't realise that the ground was mud and the four wheels sunk in almost up to the belly of the a/c.
But thats not all folks !!!! the techo's were like minded and the elevator didn't reach their penthouse either. they decided to send out on this dreary muddy day the fergie tractor to tow the a/c to the hangar. The tractor died of old age out there on the field.
But thats not all folks !!!! the techo's then decided to send a tug out to retrieve the tractor and the a/c, and you can imagine what duly happens when soft mud meets extremly heavy tug. I was glad to to stay around any more that day, almost ended up in medical from cracked ribs from all the laughing.
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Post by Radialicious on Feb 16, 2007 19:34:09 GMT 12
I did my SGT's qual with the bloke with one and a half legs. I can't remember his name now either. He was one of the toughest, bravest buggers I'd ever worked with. We were up at Dip Flat running around with guns and greens on exercise. At the end of one scenario this guy passed out for no real reason. A couple of us lifted him into a 'mog and wrapped him up in blankets wondering what the hell had happened. He didn't join us for the rest of the exercises as he now had to wait for the end of his stump to heal. He had gone that hard previously that he had worn the callous off the end of it and his artificial leg was full of blood. He had soldiered on like the rest of us without a wimper in the effort to finish the course. Top effort. With regard to suppliers, I had heard that the trade was previously termed Storemen. Apparently they took this word literally and became guardians of the stores system and became harder and harder to deal with. Hence their renaming to Supplier. Anyone out there heard this too? We used to have a cartoon in one of our Koogee huts (never had to spell that word before) of a fire breathing Supplier getting in the face of a techo saying "I don't care if you can see it on the shelf, ALIS says we don't have any, so that means we don't!" Grocers were always good for a wind-up
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 16, 2007 19:40:01 GMT 12
Mike's story of the Wasp reminds me that Hercules got bogged on on the grass strip at Whenuapai when I was based there and it took about three days in pouring rain for a poor team to dig it out.
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