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Post by baz62 on Oct 24, 2012 14:17:09 GMT 12
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Post by TS on Oct 24, 2012 14:41:28 GMT 12
Wow that is sobering isn't it .... Great find there baz62
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Post by Gary. on Oct 24, 2012 18:29:42 GMT 12
Yeah nice one baz62....... I like how the map is still in great condition after all those years in a bog......Amazing...  |
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Post by ngatimozart on Oct 24, 2012 19:27:11 GMT 12
Very sobering and a good find baz.
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Post by sparrow on Oct 25, 2012 8:44:46 GMT 12
Sobering alright. Topical to me at the moment, as I just found out last week that my 2nd cousin also died in a Lancaster, although his is believed to have collided with another, a few weeks before this one. Yet to do more research, but have the book 'Bomber Barron' on the way from Amazon, Wing Co James Barron was the pilot of my cousins Lanc.
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Post by errolmartyn on Oct 25, 2012 9:28:57 GMT 12
Sobering alright. Topical to me at the moment, as I just found out last week that my 2nd cousin also died in a Lancaster, although his is believed to have collided with another, a few weeks before this one. Yet to do more research, but have the book 'Bomber Barron' on the way from Amazon, Wing Co James Barron was the pilot of my cousins Lanc. From my For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume Two: Fates 1943-1998): Fri 19/Sat 20 May 1944 BOMBER COMMAND Raid on railway yards at Le Mans, France (by 112 Lancasters and 4 Mosquitoes - 5 lost) 7 Squadron, RAF (Oakington, Cambridgeshire - 8 [PFF] Group)Lancaster III ND845/C - took off at 2222 and brought down over the target area while acting as ‘Master Bomber’, crashing in the vicinity of the Renault works, 3km NW of the Le Mans airfield. All eight crew died, the captain and four others being buried at Le Mans on the 20th. The RCAF mid-upper gunner was later reinterred in the Canadian War Cemetery at Bretteville-sur-Laize, while the wireless operator, air bomber and rear gunner have no known graves and are commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial. ND845 was last heard stating its intention to descend below cloud to join Deputy Master Bomber 7 Sqn Lancaster JB653, which had descended earlier, and it is thought the two collided. However, 115 Squadron Lancaster HK547 is also a possibility as it crashed in the same area as the Master Bomber, whereas the Deputy came down several kilometres away. There were no survivors from any of the three Lancasters. Captured German documents claim that ND845 was brought down by flak and the other two ‘presumably’ and ‘probably’ so, respectively. It is possible that flak damage to one Lancaster led to loss of control followed by a collision with one of the others. A measure of the experience of ND845’s crew may be gained from the glittering array of nine awards held between them - four DSOs, 2 DFCs and 3 DFMs. Captain: NZ401749 Wg Cdr James Fraser BARRON, DSO* DFC DFM, RNZAF - Age 23. 1264hrs. 79th op. Wireless Op: NZ404106 Fg Off Jack William WALTERS, DFC, RNZAF - Age 23. 51st op. Barron, having returned to 7 Sqn the previous December after nine months instructional duties, was on his third tour. He had also flown ops with 15 Sqn, and 1651 HCU, RAF.
This was Walters’ second tour, his first being flown with 75 (NZ) Sqn, RAF. The CWGC register incorrectly records him as being with 180 Sqn, RAF, with which he never served.And Vol Three (Biographies & Appendices): BARRON, Wing Commander James Fraser, DSO*, DFC, DFM, (pff). NZ401749 (prev A401749); b Dunedin 9 Jan 21; Waitaki BHS, Oamaru; clerk - Mines Dept, Wgtn. RNZAF Levin/GTS as Airman Pilot u/t 2 Jul 40, 1EFTS 29 Jul 40, 1st solo 9 Aug 40, 1FTS 28 Sep 40, Pilots Badge [wef 12.12.40] & Sgt 18 Jan 41, att RAF & emb for UK 30 Jan 41, 3PRC 6 Mar 41, 20OTU (Wellington) 10 Mar 41, e/f & ditched (uninj) 17/18 Jun 41, 15 Sqn (Stirling - 44 ops) 28 Jun 41 [att 4BATF (Wellington) 5-8 Aug, att 1651CU (Stirling) 11-27 May 42], c/ldg on return from op to Ruhr (uninj) 25 Nov 41, Comm 23 Mar 42, 1651CU (Stirling - 4 ops) as instr 14 Jun 42, 7 Sqn (Stirling - 16 ops) 21 Sep 42, PFF Badge 8 Dec 42, 16OTU (Wellington) 2 Mar 43 [att 92GIF (Wellington) for cse c.4-12 Mar], 11OTU (Wellington) as instr 14 Mar 43, 7 Sqn (Lancaster - 19 ops) 28 Dec 43, kao 20 May 44. Le Mans West Cemetery - 21.C. joint grave 20, Sarthe, France. Son of James & Winifred Ellen Barron (née Fraser), Palmerston. Note: rose from Flt Sgt to Wg Cdr in 23 mths, also flew as Master Bomber on several raids. First RNZAF airman to win triple awards of DSO, DFC & DFM. [OHT1, OHT2, BSD & phot. TWN 24.6.42, 7.4.43, 11.8.43 & 4.10.44]. WALTERS, Flying Officer Jack William. DFC, (pff). NZ404106; b Gisborne 5 Jan 21; Marist Bros HS, Gisborne; postman - P & T Dept, Gisborne. RNZAF Levin/GTS as Air Gunner u/t 26 Oct 40, emb for Canada 5 Dec 40, att RCAF 23 Dec 40, 2WS 24 Dec 40, 5BGS 26 May 41, Air Gunners Badge & remust as Wireless Operator/Air Gunner & Sgt 23 Jun 41, 1 M Depôt 30 Jun 41, att RAF & emb for UK 6 Jul 41, 3PRC 29 Jul 41, 2RS 6 Aug 41, 12OTU (Wellington) 21 Oct 41, 75(NZ)Sqn (Wellington - 30 ops) 14 Jan 42, 11OTU (Wellington) as instr 28 Aug 42, Comm 1 Jun 43, 7 Sqn (Lancaster - 21 ops) 27 Dec 43 [att PFFNTU (Lancaster) 28 Dec-c.10 Jan 44], PFF Badge 14 Mar 44, kao 20 May 44. Runnymede Memorial - Panel 263. Son of Jack Vernon & Cecelia Constance M Walters (née Lister), Gisborne; h of Julia Rosina Walters (née Enefer, later Plumpton) & f of 1s, Hockwold, Norf., England. [BSD & phot. TWN 23.8.44]. Errol |
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Post by sparrow on Oct 25, 2012 9:37:32 GMT 12
Many thanks Errol, I had planned on putting up a seperate thread asking for info, I had seen a bit you put on RAFcommands about the incident, but not as much as you have added here.
My cousin was indeed Jack 'Buster' Walters. I have discovered several family members were involved in the 2 wars, this last week, including one who went down on the HMS Black Prince at Jutland. Fascinating stuff when you start searching, and getting their papers which were scanned online.
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Post by kiwipathfinder89 on Oct 25, 2012 21:09:46 GMT 12
Thanks for posting this Baz and that is very sobering indeed.
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sparkie
Leading Aircraftman
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Post by sparkie on Jan 13, 2014 10:59:29 GMT 12
I am researching all on the Hockwold War Memorial and Jack Walters is one of the names, his wife was here. It will be added to www.lakenheath-remembers.co.uk when complete. Is there anything about Jack that Sparrow would care to share, and Errol, may I have permission to use your information on the demise of that Lancaster. |
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Post by errolmartyn on Jan 13, 2014 13:54:25 GMT 12
Sparkie,
Yes, that's OK by me.
Cheers,
Errol
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Post by fwx on Jan 13, 2014 19:42:09 GMT 12
Interesting, Jack Walters started his tour at 75 (NZ) Sqdn as a Front Gunner (I J McLachlan crew), but changed halfway through to Wireless Operator, with the occasional swaps back to Front Gunner.
Then he swapped crews for some reason, flying W/Op with the G E F Bradey crew up until his tour expired with his last op' on 31 July 42. Bradey and all his crew were lost on 11/12 August.
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Post by corsair5517 on Jan 13, 2014 19:45:13 GMT 12
Wow.... I like that someone's still looking for - and finding these lost airmen!!
We stayed at a chateau just outside St-Come-du-Mont, near Carentan 3 years ago and even just wandering about the countryside there are bits of metal laying about, particularly in the hedgerows where the French farmers have dragged them from the fields; sobering stuff.
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sparkie
Leading Aircraftman
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Post by sparkie on Jan 14, 2014 6:14:12 GMT 12
Thanks Errol, I will add the usual acknowledgement when I get the rest of the website finished. I won't be adding Hockwold live to the Lakenheath site until I have done more working it. Anyone care to elaborate on Jack Walters,(I have not come across his DFC citation yet) please let me know, my sites are not just WW1
Have to visit Feltwell graveyard some time as I don't think the Kiwi's resting there have been done for the Dolores Cross project. I will have to get a mate to do that one as the place is not wheelchair accessible.
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sparkie
Leading Aircraftman
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Post by sparkie on Jan 14, 2014 7:56:57 GMT 12
Another one for Sparrow, I have just been told that Jack Walters wife re-married and may still be alive in the Lakenheath area. I am sending out search parties ! maybe a source of a photo or two.
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Post by machpants on Jan 14, 2014 7:57:18 GMT 12
Great link, thanks
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Post by errolmartyn on Jan 14, 2014 9:15:22 GMT 12
Thanks Errol, I will add the usual acknowledgement when I get the rest of the website finished. I won't be adding Hockwold live to the Lakenheath site until I have done more working it. Anyone care to elaborate on Jack Walters,(I have not come across his DFC citation yet) please let me know, my sites are not just WW1 Have to visit Feltwell graveyard some time as I don't think the Kiwi's resting there have been done for the Dolores Cross project. I will have to get a mate to do that one as the place is not wheelchair accessible. From Colin Hanson’s By Such Deeds - Honours and Awards in the Royal New Zealand Air Force, 1923-1999 : WALTERS, Flying Officer Jack William, DFC, (pff). NZ404106; Born Gisborne, 5 Jan 1921; RNZAF 26 Oct 1940 to (kao) 20 May 1944; Wireless Operator-Air Gunner. Citation Distinguished Flying Cross (14 Dec 1945 to date from 19 May 1944): [7(PFF)Sqn RAF (Lancaster)] Flying Officer Walters has completed, as Wireless Operator, many successful operations against the enemy, in the course of which he has invariably displayed high skill, fortitude and devotion to duty. Fg Off Walters served with 75(NZ)Sqn RAF (Wellington) Jan-Aug 1942, joining 7(PFF)Sqn on 27 Dec 1943, following a ‘rest’ tour with 11 OTU RAF (Wellington). Kao during a raid on the railway yards at Le Mans, France, 20 May 1944, with 7(PFF)Sqn while flying with Wg Cdr J F Barron (qv) on his 51st sortie. No known grave. Commemorated on the Runnymede Memorial. And from Vol Three (Biographies & Appendices) of my For your Tomorrow trilogy: WALTERS, Flying Officer Jack William. DFC, (pff). NZ404106; b Gisborne 5 Jan 21; Marist Bros HS, Gisborne; postman - P & T Dept, Gisborne. RNZAF Levin/GTS as Air Gunner u/t 26 Oct 40, emb for Canada 5 Dec 40, att RCAF 23 Dec 40, 2WS 24 Dec 40, 5BGS 26 May 41, Air Gunners Badge & remust as Wireless Operator/Air Gunner & Sgt 23 Jun 41, 1 M Depôt 30 Jun 41, att RAF & emb for UK 6 Jul 41, 3PRC 29 Jul 41, 2RS 6 Aug 41, 12OTU (Wellington) 21 Oct 41, 75(NZ)Sqn (Wellington - 30 ops) 14 Jan 42, 11OTU (Wellington) as instr 28 Aug 42, Comm 1 Jun 43, 7 Sqn (Lancaster - 21 ops) 27 Dec 43 [att PFFNTU (Lancaster) 28 Dec-c.10 Jan 44], PFF Badge 14 Mar 44, kao 20 May 44. Runnymede Memorial - Panel 263. Son of Jack Vernon & Cecelia Constance M Walters (née Lister), Gisborne; h of Julia Rosina Walters (née Enefer, later Plumpton) & f of 1s, Hockwold, Norf., England. [BSD & phot. TWN 23.8.44]. Errol |
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sparkie
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 4
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Post by sparkie on Jan 20, 2014 9:30:34 GMT 12
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Post by errolmartyn on Jan 20, 2014 11:47:40 GMT 12
Tony, Corrections in bold. With regard to ranks for crew, I suggest you standardise for all on either the abbreviated version or the rank in full rather than a mix of the two. RNZAF Levin/ Ground Training School [attached Pathfinder Force Navigation Training Unit \ Wing Commander J.F. BARRON DSO & bar, DFC DFM (RNZAF); Sqdn Ldr J. BAKER DSO; Flt/Sgt D.W. WOOD; Sqdn Ldr P.R. COLDWELL DSO, DFM Pilot Officer O A. PRICE, Flying Officer J.W. WALTERS DFC (RNZAF); Flying Officer R.L. WEATHERALL DFM (RCAF) and Warrant Officer J. LAMONBY. Errol |
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Post by spongebob206 on Jan 20, 2014 17:14:10 GMT 12
Thank you Baz
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Post by jackyemery on Mar 3, 2020 3:25:32 GMT 12
Bonjour de France,
J'habite Le Mans je sais maintenant où est tombé l'avion du Lt BARRON.
Préparant une cérémonie pour rendre hommage à cet équipage, je serais heureux de pouvoir rentrer en relation
avce les familles de ces héros. Merci de votre aide.
A vous lire.
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