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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 27, 2015 8:44:37 GMT 12
Bill is very good and generally onto these things, That is a narrow deck engine and the governor speeds for the Islander engines are different. You can't fit a wide deck governor to a narrow deck engine and expect it to work, at least on the Islander installation. Indeed I know they work, kindish, but I have experience of an engine actually feathering during slow speed cruise. I don't recall that particular Cherokee running with narrow deck engines so the governor P/N may have to be checked. This is a Cherokee governor you are talking about though and may well be applicable to both versions of the O-540. Did you have two engines , - what is the other one ? *** EDIT *** Here we are. Lycoming actually have a SL for it. www.lycoming.com/Portals/0/techpublications/serviceletters/SL%20L220C%20(08-02-2011)/Wide%20Deck%20Cylinder%20Configuration%20on%20Lycoming%20Engines.pdf |
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Post by craig on Jan 27, 2015 13:12:17 GMT 12
The other engine had been removed prior and disassembled. We don't have the cylinders, crankshaft or crankcase but seem to have most of the rest (inc log book). Though we are light on mags (only have 1). Cheers for the heads up on the governor will have look into this.....
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 27, 2015 13:35:44 GMT 12
Ok, not so much of it then. Well you are dealing with a narrow deck engine so that will limit your choices for cylinders and things. The rear case and mags will be the same though although you may to look into the type of retard you will be using on the mags. I am guessing you would be using the retard points with a vibrator box. (Shower of Sparks). www.csobeech.com/files/TCMIgnitionVibratorManual.pdfThe Lycoming is a good choice of engine and parts should be easy to come by, especially for private use. The 0-360 narrow deck cylinders should be the same I believe. Have some older mags here, I think a few may be 6 cylinder jobs. I will have a look and see what I come up with. I sold a lot of Islander stuff 25 years ago so I think most went then. |
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Post by craig on Jan 27, 2015 19:30:32 GMT 12
Cheers that would be great. The one mag I have is Bendix impulse and I understand the vibrator boxes are pretty pricey. So will try to get another impulse.
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 28, 2015 11:48:00 GMT 12
The impulse units are difficult to keep up with. They have been subject to product improvement and a series of bulletins so trying to find an airworthy example could be an effort.
If the one you have is reasonably new then you may be okay but I doubt very much I would have a good impulse.
The second mag need not be impulsed anyway so it should make the search easier. What is the model of the one you have ?
If that engine has not been inhibited then it is going to need some action. I personally would be spraying it with CRC Marine 66 asap.
It gets sprayed everywhere, internally through the plugs, exhaust, intakes etc. Also I would be spraying a fine mist through the breather or rear cover somehow. Pulling a mag is good and it seems you may have a blanking plate on anyway.
You can also spray through a rocker drain to get into the sump. There is no easy way to get the cam or crankshafts though, short of pulling a cylinder.
Spraying the engine externally is much easier of course. Give it heaps.
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Post by oj on Jan 28, 2015 21:10:42 GMT 12
Good Chaps,
You can't just swap Impulse mags for Vibrator "Shower of sparks" mags at will.
The engine type designator is certified for operation with a particular type of magneto.
If for example you have an IO-540-E4C5 Then from memory that is certified with Bendix/TCM S1200 series starting vibrator magnetos
An IO-540-A1B2 would have a different magneto set and so on.
Conversions can be done, but you have to submit a mod to convert the engine to a different type designator.
Those type designators do not only define the magnetos; they may also affect the fuel controls, governors, accessory voltages and brands (such as for alternators & starters).
So rush into it very carefully of you might not get airworthiness clearance.
What is your engine's full model number?
Have you got access to the Avco Lycoming manuals applicable?
Starting vibrators should not be too hard to come by. They become available whenever wrecks are salvaged. Contact any of the main general-aviation electrical overhaul shops or back-water hangars with wrecks in the yard. They are very robust items and easily tested and re-certified. Just ring around.
With regard to the starting vibrator type magnetos versus impulse couplings, both have different advantages, but the vibrator system is lower maintenance and performs well provided you keep the retard points in proper timing whenever you adjust or check the main timing. The vibrator is very reliable as it is a simple electro-mechanical device.
Please do not hesitate to seek further advice on this topic. I specialised in running a very busy aircraft electrical/ignition overhaul shop for many years, with hundreds of magnetos repaired and overhauled each year.
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 28, 2015 23:49:08 GMT 12
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Post by noooby on Jan 29, 2015 6:35:35 GMT 12
Slightly off topic, but is this engine out of a very early Islander? The engine we used that was out of an Islander was an IO-540K1B5, this engine is an O-540.
I just assumed all Islanders were injected, till I saw the photo above.
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 29, 2015 7:39:24 GMT 12
All Trislanders had the O-540 as did most of the Islanders. The 300 hp Islander had the injected engine and I am not so sure there were that many of them in NZ.
The Islanders at Kaikoura, Wanaka and Invercargill were all 260 HP but when Sounds Air had JSB it was a 300 HP.
Basically the same engines as the Cherokee Six, 260 and 300 versions.
I think the injected aircraft were found in the hot and high areas, OZ had many.
I am pretty sure most of Sunflower's in Fiji were O-540 also though.
The O-540 is a very good engine. I hope Craig gets a good run out of his.
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 29, 2015 8:05:28 GMT 12
Some pics showing how difficult it can be to get into these engines. These are 4 cylinders but you will get the idea. The oil tank is basically removed from the engine, well if compared to a car engine. The splash within the engine will be much the same and probably dictated more by engine rpm etc than anything related to oil level. The sump is nowhere near any moving parts and indeed is down amongst the induction tubes. There are only a few narrow drainage slots between the sump and the rotating parts. The breather is at the top of the accessory cover and has a baffle minimising spray thrown from the various gears making it's way out. I have seen a Lycoming O-540 with 19 quarts in it trying to run and yes the oil level was up around the crank throws on that occasion. The engine was sluggish and blowing smoke, all pretty obvious clues of what had happened.     If we look at the breather on the O-235 as fitted to the Tomahawk we can see that oil level in the sump is going to be irrelevant. The breather outlet in this case is at the left front case half, the bottom right corner of the lower pic.   The camshaft lobes are splash lubricated only and that is why we need a thin oil at start up that can get thrown about the engine interior. We would normally go straight to 1500 rpm on start just to ensure that. The splash in this case is coming from the pressure fed oil to the camshaft bearings oozing out along with the crank journal bearings. The O-235 is a good example of just how far removed the breather is from the oil sump. The only oil inside the 'engine' is the excess dripping out of the various journals. Even the rocker drain oil is routed by external pipe-work back to the very top of the sump cavity.   This last pic is a great example. It is of an O-320 but an H2AD model with the 6 Quart capacity. We can see the absence of moving parts in the oil storage area, the pick-up screen and the dipstick. The drain can be seen and is the low point in the sump. The oil pump inlet is directly next to it and not far off the same level. We can see the inlet is at the rear of the engine so gets oil in nose up attitudes and we can see the reason for cleaning the suction screen at the oil change. The dipstick clearly does not extend all the way to the bottom of the sump, even with nothing on the stick the engine may still run satisfactory. That would depend of course on how much oil drains back to the sump on shutdown. The oil level just needs to be sufficient to keep the pick-up immersed at all times. Well at least as far as oil pressure is concerned. For lubrication purposes we may want more oil for cooling and contamination considerations. We can also see that the oil heats the incoming air, or rather the air is used to cool the oil. I run a Tomahawk without any form of oil cooling, no shroud and no cooler. The engine oil temp needs to be hot and from my experience having variable quantities in the sump makes little difference. With a lowish utilisation engine such as my Tomahawk I would have little hesitation in operating the engine at the 4 quart level, the oil runs hot enough and there is little discolouration if you do 4 monthly oil changes. |
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Post by noooby on Jan 29, 2015 17:25:37 GMT 12
Thanks baronbeeza. Soundsair also had ZK-SFE with the IO-540, which is where the engine that I worked on came from.
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Post by oj on Jan 29, 2015 20:49:27 GMT 12
Looks like you are fully on to it.
Wise to choose Bendix/TCM mags over Slick.
Good luck with it all.
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Post by baz62 on Jan 29, 2015 21:01:17 GMT 12
Well looks like a major bit of the rebuild is getting sorted. Good to see. Oj I suppose the shop you worked for did a few Mags for the Gipsy major. I've read a few people have gone to a Slick conversion although some say a well maintained original GM magneto is still fine. Probably parts might be an issue these days although I saw Stan Smith's huge pile of mags one day so maybe not!  |
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 29, 2015 21:09:28 GMT 12
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Post by oj on Jan 29, 2015 21:43:23 GMT 12
My experience was almost solely at AESL/NZAIL/JAL/PACL. We did not service any vintage engines or magnetos in my time there except one Menasco Pirate engine with Bendix mags (out of a Ryan monoplane).
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Post by craig on Jan 30, 2015 19:15:53 GMT 12
 Not something you see every day |
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Post by baronbeeza on Jan 30, 2015 19:39:03 GMT 12
Wow, what a trailer.
You could land and take-off on that. Thanks for the pic.
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Post by suthg on Jan 30, 2015 20:53:25 GMT 12
I agree, front tandem is a turntable, nice! 14" wheels at the front and 13" at the back (maybe 14" too). If you had much weight on that, I would use 6Ply or 8Ply light truck tyres at 60psi to stop wallowing and fishtailing but the length would negate that and light load too. Looks perfect for the task.
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Post by TS on Jan 30, 2015 21:00:33 GMT 12
who cares!!!! it must be road legal
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Post by craig on Jan 31, 2015 6:32:15 GMT 12
Elec brakes with wireless controler in cab. Deck 10m x 2.5m. Automatic breakaway brakes should it become uncoupled. Pulls and tracks very well. Just need to watch the tight corners as you would expect. $150 for half day. Oh and the draw bar can extend if you need even more length! I can't tell you what it cost to build but must have been easy 5 digits.
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