The RNZAF P-40 Pile

[Antonio]

What an amazing photo.
The puzzles of roundels and codes plus, I noticed, two different sized serial.
I guess the 'Christchurch"? small serial and the standard (later) sized serial.

[Dave Homewood]

Here is a pic from RNZAF: The First Decade

That is probably a Rukuhia repaint.

[davidd]

Yep, October 1944, Rukuhia. test pilot F J Adams.

[planecrazy]

Took a tighter shot of this area, fascinating image of her history.
What I have also noticed is the blue went past rather than exactly
over the green and brown, artistic licence?

[planecrazy]

Bit of a Walk around NZ 3043 "Bess" thanks and most grateful to John and Mike.

Bit of workshop noise here and there.

[A4k]

G'day guys.

Researching Rukuhia again for a number of dioramas I have wanted to build for a long time.

One is a small dio planned of the 2nd from front row of Corsairs (from runway) with 2 P-40s in front (no idea how to post photos to show what I'm talking about). As such, trying to identify the serials...

I think I *may* have finally identified the 'OD - ?' P-40 on an angle, but would like to see what you guys think...

After study of available notes, sites, and deduction, I think she may be P-40E-1 NZ3096, coded OD-23.
This is one of the 'incomplete information' birds at the bottom of Charles Darby's and Phil Hanson's 'Warhawk' list. (I matched the code to the serial by searching the USAAF serial no. on the nzdf-serials site)


Can anyone confirm or deny?

Cheers,
Evan

[A4k]

This is her, and a correction:

3 possibilities (IMO) -
P-40E-1 NZ3096 'OD-23'
P-40K-10 NZ3052 '?'
P-40K-15 NZ3060 'OD-9?'

I'm now leaning towards NZ3060, see post below.

Another question: Does anyone know the date these photos were taken?

Cheers again.

[Dave Homewood]

That date would be sometime in the 1950s I'd guess, because the aircraft all look fairly weather-worn, but they all retain their engines, which were all removed by the early 1960s I believe.

What factors lead you to think it is NZ3096, please?

[A4k]

Cheers Dave.

Rechecking my process, I think I forgot about or overlooked two possibles (bugger!)

I don't profess to be an expert on P-40s. I'm not. But my deduction/ elimination process went like this, checked from different angles as I went:

- Used Charles Darby and Phil Hanson's 'Warhawk' list (courtesy of this forum - cheers!) to list the P-40 identities present at Rukuhia at that time.

-then used Ivan Prince's NZDF-Serials page to list other P-40s that ended up at Rukuhia, but were smelted or sold before the time of the 'Warhawks' list.
(by combining the two, I was able to identify two of 'Warhawks' 'incomplete information' birds: P-40E-1 NZ3096 'OD-23', and P-40M-5 NZ3180 'OD-18', using the USAAF serial nos.)

-I shortlisted all 4 OTU aircraft, as 'OD' codes are visible in both photos.

-Using detailed (Russian) drawings I have, showing the differences between all the variants and sub-variants, I started eliminating what she 'couldn't' be.
Here I confess my deduction is only as good as the plans- these are however the best I have to go on at this time.

-So, starting to look at features, enclosed rear canopy section (and unarmoured canopy hood?) excluded late model P-40s: -N-5, N-15, N-20 and N-25.

-Front windshield sans-armoured 'triangle' eliminated -M and N-1 models. 3 MGs per wing also eliminates the N-1.
As far as I can make out, no grill panels are visible (though the prop blade covers most of this in the port side view unfortunately), which would also eliminate all M/N models.

-This leaves us with the E-1, K-10, and K-15 models, of which only one E-1 at Rukuhia (NZ3096, 'OD-23'), one K-10 (NZ3052, 'OD-?'), and one K-15 (NZ3060 - 'coded 9'- nzdf-serials) were assigned to 4 OTU. The K-10 and K-15 were gone by the time Charles Darby did his list.

-This is mind, plus a nagging doubt about the position of the tailplanes in the available images, I think I may have been wrong to surmise she was NZ3096 after all.
I even thought I could make out a faint '3' to the left of the roundel in the stbd view, but no '2', so maybe my '3' is actually a '9', and she's P-40K-15 NZ3060?

If anyone is able to see that stbd side image clearer, it may clarify if I'm correct with the '9' or not.

David Duxbury supplied Warren P. Russell with a stbd view on a slightly different angle for his 'Chance Vought F4U-1/ F4U-1D and Goodyear FG-1D Corsair' book too (p.180).
I would love to see a high resolution copy of that.

What do you guys reckon anyway?

Cheers,
Evan

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks Evan,

Good research.

Oct 13, 2024 11:21:50 GMT 12 A4k said:

plus a nagging doubt about the position of the tailplanes in the available images

No I am sure you're correct that it has a short tail, so likely a P-40E, or P-40K.

I cannot make out the numbers at all.

David Duxbury supplied Warren P. Russell with a stbd view on a slightly different angle for his 'Chance Vought F4U-1/ F4U-1D and Goodyear FG-1D Corsair' book too (p.180).
I would love to see a high resolution copy of that.

I would LOVE to see a high resolution scan of it too. David, do you still have the print?

[A4k]

Cheers Dave.

Yeah, I was certain she was the P-40E-1 too, but the position of the tailplanes kept nagging at me.

It's a funny thing, but as long as the long tails look, if you put a model P-40M or N on the angles seen in the photos (no dear, I'm not playing with my models again - it's research...), that long gap between tail fin and tailplane leading edges disappears, and the tailplane starts about where you see in those shots.

The P-40E tailplane starts in line with the tailfin in plan, but if put on those same photo angles, starts 'behind' the leading edge of the tailfin.
(The K-1 had a tailfin fillet, and our sole example, NZ3108, was written off at Espiritu Santo)

Not ruling out NZ3096 entirely, but personally leaning more towards K-15 NZ3060 'OD-9', or possibly the K-10 NZ3052 'OD-?'

I do hope David has that photo still, it seems clearer than the one posted here. (It is almost the same angle, just very slightly lower. The prop blade covers the '23' of the Corsair behind.)

[davidd]

Sorry chaps, I had no part in collecting and studying original prints for the book under discussion, just provided my thoughts after studying copies of the images sent to me by Malcolm Laird via my computer. So am in pretty much the same situation as anybody else studying the published book.

[Dave Homewood]

Bugger. I wonder where the original photo is these days.

[A4k]

No worries, cheers David.
I wonder if Malcolm Laird has the original, or knows where it is.

[Dave Homewood]

Oct 13, 2024 11:21:50 GMT 12 A4k said:

David Duxbury supplied Warren P. Russell with a stbd view on a slightly different angle for his 'Chance Vought F4U-1/ F4U-1D and Goodyear FG-1D Corsair' book too (p.180).

Or perhaps Warren P. Russell may have it?

[Dave Homewood]

Oct 12, 2024 1:18:48 GMT 12 A4k said:

This is a slightly different angle of the same scene, undoubtedly from the same photographer at the same time.

[A4k]

Beauty, cheers Dave!
Can't see any cooling panel in front of the exhausts, so I'd say we're on the right track eliminating all the Ms and Ns atleast. Down to 3 birds :-)

Warren P. Russell credits the photo as 'via D. Duxbury', yet David said he just studied copies on the computer from Malcolm Laird.
Would it be rude/stupid/whatever to ask Malcolm Laird if he has it, or has access to it??

[Dave Homewood]

David are you mixing up Malcolm's much more recent Corsair book with Warren's book from the 1980s?

[A4k]

To clarify, yeah I'm referring to 'NZPAF/ RNZAF Aircraft Colour Schemes Vol.3: Chance Vought F4U-1/ F4U-1D and Goodyear FG-1D Corsair' by Warren P. Russell, 1984. Photo is on P.180.

[A4k]

Scouring the net and found clear photos of P-40K-15 NZ3060 in theatre (Black '9' on nose, flown occasionally by Geoff Fisken). Pacific bands as our Rukuhia bird. If she had still had her lower cowl when that photo was taken, it would have clinched it - very distinctive wavy camo on nose, not to mention the Black '9'. Oh well...

...and also found a beautiful shot of P-40K-10 NZ3052 at Ohakea - with a lovely number '12' on rear fuselage! She was 'OD-12' then.
She also sports her pacific stripes, but with a full White tail, so not our bird.

Down to 2, I believe :-)