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Post by jimtheeagle on Oct 14, 2011 21:05:20 GMT 12
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Post by ngatimozart on Oct 14, 2011 23:52:19 GMT 12
As well as the Mistral the army has the Browning M2 .50 cal MG, the MAG 7.62mm MGs and the 5.56mm C9s. Also they can use the 25mm Bushmasters on the LAV IIIs at a pinch so I have been told. That would depend on gun elevation limits and the gunners MK 1 Eyeball. The RNZN has the SAM missile system and main gun in the frigates Browning M2 .50 cal MGs and at a pinch the MAG 58 7.62mm MGs. The old Leander class did have a couple of 20mm as well as the twin 4.5 inch forward mounts. I think it was the Southland that had the 40mm Bofors. But typical Kiwi defence approach no AAA of repute and no decent AA. The Russian ZSU 23mm system is one of the best light AAA around and especially evil if it is a triple or quad mount. People think of AAA as only for use against aircraft, but it is also good against ground targets like troops trucks and such things as light armoured vehicles. It's a real good direct fire weapon system & gonna ruin somebodies day.
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Post by ngatimozart on Oct 14, 2011 23:58:54 GMT 12
The Wanaka-based P-40 has firable guns Shorty. That's about it I guess, the Government even banned skyrockets.  Actually if they are heading for the Beehive wouldn't it be better to give them some guidance so that they don't get lost and crash into the wrong place. Be a shame to waste a perfectly good opportunity  What was the old saying used to drive the powers that be cranky: "Come the glorious day of the revolution". Talking of cranky people I was at Wigram when the God Squad raids at Waipara went down. Sqn Ldr B G Anderson was Base Adj then and he definitely had no sense of humour around that time. Very entertaining it was. |
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Post by curtiss on Oct 15, 2011 17:21:01 GMT 12
It looks like the Army was involved with Anti Aircraft Defence at some stage. See this item for sale on Trade Me. This could be wartime or early post war.
ww2 anti aircraft pennant Listing: 414165458
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 15, 2011 18:39:15 GMT 12
My old friend Jack Robinson, who Brice also knew, here in Cambridge, was an anti-aircraft gunner in the Thurd Division in the Pacific and he related the story several times of his gun shooting down a Zero over a beach.
The Army also had many AA guns on buildings in Auckland and I suppose in other coastal cities.
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Post by rone on Dec 29, 2013 15:47:23 GMT 12
I know this thread is 2 years old, but I am even older. I was a gunner in LAA in 1956 through to 1957 when the government ceased CMT for Navy and Airforce. We Were based at Hobsonville in No1 hangar, actually only half of the hangar, the other half was where the Vampires were assembled. The Bofors were painted blue, 2 of the guns had anti-flash shields with airforce roundels painted on them. The gun tractors were 6x4 Chevrolet, same looking as GMC but were short wheelbase vehicles. We also had Series1 Landrovers, also blue naturally. After doing basic training trainees split up, most becoming gun crew, some drivers and the rest wireless operators. We mostly all had been waiting to go into aircrew training, and following the RAF practice were shoved into LAA, or Airfield Defence, based on the RAF Regiment model. We were taught unarmed combat as part of this training. The LAA SQN's were self contained units, part of a very mobile task force able to travel to a set up at any airfield in a short time. We had gunnery practice at Muriwai with the Avenger towing a drogue, similarly at the end of Whangaparoa peninsula trying to hit a drogue towed behind a Navy vessel. OC was S/L Fraser, supposedly a Berlin Airlift pilot who mistook the lights of Grafton Bridge for Whenuapai and nearly came to grief. He was definitely a bit gung-ho, on one occasion at Muriwai using HE they were exploding not too far out, it was raining heavy at the time, and he ordered "keep firing" until it was pointed out to him it was getting dangerous. Guess that's what the anti-flash shields were for. All in all a great time was had by all.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 29, 2013 16:07:12 GMT 12
I recently met two other RNZAF LAA gunners. Les Marshall (who talks about it in his interview in the Wings Over New Zealand Show series I made) and Clive Estcourt. I also recorded an interview with Clive and some of that will appear in a forthcoming episode down the track.
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Post by davidd on Jan 20, 2014 11:12:28 GMT 12
The answer as to when the Light AA Squadrons (and other Task Force units) received their new numbers is as follows: this is a direct quotation from RNZAF Routine Orders of 1954.
26/2/54; Nominal identification of RNZAF units, including Task Force ancillary units. “For ease of identification and to provide a basis on which to build individuality and tradition, the following identification numbers have been allotted to units of the RNZAF.”
Wings:
No.21 Fighter Wing.
Task Force Ancillary units (Block numbers 51 to 60):
No. 51 LAA Squadron.
No. 52 LAA Squadron.
No. 53 Air Stores Park.
No. 54 Aviation Fuel and Ammunition Park.
No. 55 Motor Transport Light Repair Unit. (Note, "Motor", not "Mechanical" as previously.)
No. 56 Repair and Salvage Unit.
No. 57 Mobile Field Hospital.
No. 58 Casualty Air Evacuation Section.
(Ref. ADO A16/1954; cancelled by ADO A40/1958).
Incidentally, in case it has not been spelled out fully, the Task Force units were never intended to be deployed for operational purposes in New Zealand, except for training, as their entire existence was predicated on their being available for rapid deployment to an overseas theatre, and to be used to fit into the Commonwealth air forces in that theatre (originally "Middle East", later "Far East"). The Task Force was meant to provide all the ancillary forces required to support one mobile Vampire or Venom-equipped DF/GA wing (three squadrons) "in theatre", although two of the units (AFAP and RSU) were designed to support two Wings (airfields) comprising six squadrons. Each airfield would also require its own HQ and the squadrons and aircraft servicing crews, etc over and above the ancillary units, and there was also the possiblity that the units could be split up among several airfields, but that had no impact on their training or organisation so far as I can see.
David D
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Post by rone on Aug 9, 2014 15:17:23 GMT 12
I had thought that by now there might be other ex 51/52 LAA SQN erks on here, be great to discuss events of the past and lost youth. The last post by Davidd mentions the units were never intended for use in NZ,I can give a example of what nearly was (for want of a better way of description). While we were part way through training in 1956, we were all rounded up one morning and had Queens Regulations read to us and all had to sign papers agreeing to serve o/seas at short notice. It was during the Suez Crisis when President Nasser sunk all the ships in the Canal, the big stick was being waved about Empire and all, but he called their bluff and nothing eventuated, bugger, I didn't get a trip to Egypt. Seriously though, a good time was had by all, I have a few brownie photos of map reading exercises around Waimauku and shoots at places like Seagrove, Ardmore, Muriwai and Whangaparoa. Dave, I haven't a clue how to post photos on here, maybe if I sent them to you, you can post them.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 9, 2014 16:22:51 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 12, 2014 19:25:49 GMT 12
Here are Ron Elliott's photos, with his comments:  A few of unarmed combat training in the concrete hangar cum gym at Hobsonville  Instruction in making sure your opponent does not walk away, instructor on right was highly skilled  And again, easy eh?  More of the same  Another Waikato boy  Front end bottomed out in the drain, use the winch  More of the same |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 12, 2014 19:32:28 GMT 12
More of Ron's photos and his comments:  Winching training at back of Hobsonville, Greenhithe Hill in background  A look around the Army Bay at end of Whangaparoa Peninsula  Chevrolet Gun Tractor at Muriwai Beach, bloke on right is John Kneebone, well known Waikato identity  Same place, same time  How to bury Air Force Property and then learn how to recover it. Taken at Muriwai Beach 1956 |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 12, 2014 21:56:07 GMT 12
More from Ron Elliott  Rugby game at Hobsonville, Wednesday afternoon was sports day if my memory is correct.  Two well dressed fellows at far side of Hobsonville Airfield  Spot the two in front, axes at the ready  The great cover up, obviously no OSH back then, Dave Balfour from Palmerston North almost touching the power lines  Another bit of pruning with a spade  Now you see it, now you don’t. Note Doug smoking on the job, and the gumboots of GSI Sergeant Stone  A couple of shots of the boys relaxing in the hot pool a Parakai Domain, Hellensville   A view of Army barracks, Army Bay, Whangaparoa Peninsula, we practiced gunnery at a sea target towed by a Navy vessel. Guns were set up on the cliffs overlooking the gulf. Firing at the target was generally in the direction of Tiri Island |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 12, 2014 22:39:41 GMT 12
  More of the same, cockies had their trees trimmed for free  Setting up camouflage of guns and vehicle prior to playing hide and seek with a pair of Harvards, Taupaki/ Waimauku area  2 of the many Vampires assembled at the opposite end of our hangar, they were brought to our end to park on the concrete apron for initial engine runs  Two Bofors 40mm guns set up on the apron in front of the hangar, note the blast shields fitted to these  Ardmore again, most of our gun crew  Ardmore Range again, on the borer riddled light tank remains  A couple of the boys in the scrub and teatree at the far side of Hobsonville facing Auckland  On the range at Army range Ardmore, Bren Gun target practice, GSI Pilot Officer Peter Barbour making sure everything is as it should be |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 13, 2014 21:25:53 GMT 12
More from Ron Elliott:  General view, gun at ready, looking towards Manukau Harbour across to Mangere  Seagrove, still waiting, note the gun wheels hidden with hay, courtesy the haystack  Seagrove again, waiting, Flt.Sgt Stone busy reading  Looking down the old runway at Seagrove Airfield  All of the weapons outside  Cleaning the gear after a day out  Tracking on a Harvard after setting up after surprise attack, guns were set up on side of main highway, Dairy Flat area, other road users must have wondered what was going on. The barrel muzzle is visible at picture bottom. These drivers sure came in low.  Map reading exercise Waimauku  Same again  Bofors and crew set up waiting for target towing Avenger and orders, up on cliffs at south end Muriwai Beach 1956  Cross country exercise and set up, Waikuku Valley, Waimauku north east of Kumeu |
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Post by rone on Aug 14, 2014 9:58:15 GMT 12
I am keen to read the article concerning the LAA Squadrons mentioned in the first post. Any chance of being pointed in the right direction or where the book? may be founf
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Post by rone on Aug 14, 2014 9:59:18 GMT 12
should be found, sorry sir
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Post by 30sqnatc on Aug 14, 2014 18:46:20 GMT 12
At the start of this thread (page 1) or I can email you a copy - I wrote it.
I have also been in contact with another LAA member who sent several pictures. He was actually very pleased to read the article as he was being accused of being crazy at the local RSA when he claimed he was part of an RNZAF LAA unit. Slowly the info is coming out of the woodwork.
Paul
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 14, 2014 19:33:57 GMT 12
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Post by rone on Aug 14, 2014 20:31:48 GMT 12
Paul,(30sqnatc), I read your thread at the start, the book you mentioned, if it is available, I would love to get my hands on it for a read and squizz at the photos. As I am not up with the play with the workings on here, perhaps Dave can pass on my email to you. And any chance of a name for the bloke you mentioned, I might just know him
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What was the old saying used to drive the powers that be cranky: "Come the glorious day of the revolution". Talking of cranky people I was at Wigram when the God Squad raids at Waipara went down. Sqn Ldr B G Anderson was Base Adj then and he definitely had no sense of humour around that time. Very entertaining it was.
