Post by denysjones on Feb 10, 2013 20:49:53 GMT 12
The big thing I worry about on these topics is the input from all sorts of people who put their bit into project in the expectation that it is for the good of some concern that is long term for NZ.
I know heaps of people gave stuff to Wanaka in the various iterations of the collection down there and now it's almost 100% gone offshore.
The Hurricane was the subject of a lot of input from Air NZ, what have they to say?. We at Ferrymead lent one of our Merlins from our Mossie project to the team at Harewood working on the Hurricane so they could use it to fabricate cowl fit, only to have it return with damage to it, and no apology for that.
Somewhere sometime a reality check is needed on the conservation of local heritage versus the "oh whoppee we saw it fly, how sad our descendants won't even get to see it because it then got sold off offshore but that's ok because it's in the interest of it flying but we'll now move on because such and such else is now coming down track".
Isn't that really another instance of "all for me now and who cares what else"?
This is especially relevant if we have raped and pillaged our museums to get the stuff out of there for these projects so the voyeurs could have their times of enthralment on the flight lines at the airshows.
Denys, good points, and people do get poorly served as you mention, at times. However it's a question of balance, and the good people trying to do the right thing to keep the roundabout revolving. If you put volunteer effort into an artefact it is going to be at risk of moving on, more if there's private finance / ownership, less if it's national / public owned - and those things that are really precious is what we have national (usually static) collections for.
And we must recognising that it's a global game.
I've no time for those who expect the mountains of preservation to come to their patch, or (in unrealistic cases) be sequestered for them 'at home' forever. In general (and this isn't directed at Denys, but is a general observation) support you nation's collections and tie the important stuff down there if you care, but don't expect private money to offer a national guarantee.
Let's remember too than NZ has gained a lot of tourist dollars (mine included) because people came to see warbirds at Wanaka, Omaka and so on.
NZ is a different warbird environment than it used to be in the early Wanaka days, as that was different to the sparse warbird days before then. You can put 'preservation' for 'warbird' in that sentence and it applies again.
Like many other things each place has something to offer, they grow and decline, and with luck many different places get their time in the sun, but none of it's forever, not even the Louvre, British Museum, Smithsonian or IWM Duxford - or Wanaka, Skyfame or the Deutsche Luftfahrt Sammlung.
Agree JDK. I remember the very large numbers of aircraft that went out of Australia in the 60s and 70s and it was sad and a source of angst for the vintage and antiquers and those, like myself, who loved the old wartime machines but could do nothing about it. Remember, at that time the warbird movement did not exist. I can proudly also say at that time that I was directly involved in the 'retention' of a number of warbirds that were seized as a result of overseas owners who thought that they had a right to something simply because they had the cash. One owner in particular comes to mind who stated that "This aircraft deserves to be in the UK as you will never be able to rebuild it in Australia". Another involved in a similar attempted export was tipped off and just managed to get out of the country before the AFP could nab him. He later sent his son out to try and justify how the illegal export was to take place and to get the aircraft back. People went to all sorts of ruses at that time to export aircraft from Oz without attracting attention like one case in which the address of the exporting party was a terrace house where, when the AFP arrived, the occupiers of the place had no connection with or knowledge of the party who was to receive the aircraft overseas. It happens.....
What about a Spitfire that was illegally exported from Australia as "Scrap aluminium sheets and strip" on its Australian export documents and, miracle of miracles, became a Spitfire aircraft on its UK import documents....... What, nothing strange in that to the UK authorities? That again was one of a few instances where the dollar was considered to make the person sacrosanct and his so-called track record putting him above the law..... Fortunately such cases were very restricted.
There were a large number of aircraft, vintage and warbirds exported from Australia but the ebb and flow of this 'industry' has seen many others return.
Of course there is outrage when something is lost that everyone enjoyed. A Spitfire that moved across the ditch was one in point. I remember a certain MC at a dinner post Wanaka stating - without the slightest bit of humour - that "Those rotten Australians have taken our Spitfire!" when, unknown to him, those rotten Australians were sitting less than 10 feet in front of him..... even after Sirt Tim had stated that he believed that the aircraft was going to its real home. This is just life in the warbird world.
As I have said, the warbird industry is one full of ebb and flow. It does even itself out over time. Collections grow and collections diminish for a plethora of reasons. Those reasons can be unfathomable at the time but over time become crystal clear to the long-term observer. After all we - even those cashed up individuals who are fortunate to temporarily hold these aircraft in posterity for us (and by that I mean us now and us future) - are still human and subject to the vagaries of fortune.
I doubt that I shall ever see a Tigerkitty flying in the West Island, but then, I never thought I would see a B-25 or a PV-1 Ventura here either. Did anyone in NZ apart from Glyn ever really think they would see a Mossie flying over Auckland again?
Denysjones makes a good point about collections and individuals contributing to 'flying' aircraft and how sometimes that action results in upset for whatever reason to the lending party. That does happen and sometimes the donor becomes a victim. Then again, do we want to follow the addage "Neither a borrower nor a lender be...."? I myself lost a P-40 chin cowl in perfect condition when someone accidentally included it in a bunch of parts that were exported to the USA. I was very upset at the time but there was nothing I could do to retrieve it. Ensuring that it was not lost or damaged was in part down to me as well. If individuals do loan or donate parts to a project they should ensure that the agreement is watertight. Then at least there is recourse to 'compensation' in another place. On the other hand, do we also want to see individuals or collections hoarding parts that are'multiples' owned by those individuals or collections that could help an aircraft fly again. Swings and roundabouts again.
In the West Island we have certain laws that are supposed to govern items of moveable heritage. They are a real joke. They have never been adequately funded so that owners can be compensated when they wish to export an item that is refused export approval on the grounds of its heritage significance. Equally, the records associated with this 'law' show that those governing it considered an aircraft that was located in the ocean and had been there for many years was considered of grater heritage vallue than one of the same type that, albeit somewhat incomplete, was in otherwise 'perfect' condition sitting on dry land. It is an imperfect world.
Now off that white horse so that the windmills are safe and I can get back on thread.....
Let's see...... why would you disassemble a Hurricane and then wrap it in plastic and put it on the back of a truck? Its either going a short distance where minimal protection is required or a long way where its mode of transport is both quick and 'clean'. Possibilities, a quick trip across Cook Strait to somewhere like, Ohakea for a new owner or a syndicate of owners - anyone checked if its off the NZ civil register yet...... and no you would not fly it there after such a long time out of action without a thorough inspection and engine check...........or its onto a jet for a trip overseas.............. isn't there another twin engined machine leaving around 15th for Virginia Beach.......... anyone see Jerry at Wanaka? That's my two bob's worth anyway.....
Let's see...... why would you disassemble a Hurricane and then wrap it in plastic and put it on the back of a truck? Its either going a short distance where minimal protection is required or a long way where its mode of transport is both quick and 'clean'. Possibilities, a quick trip across Cook Strait to somewhere like, Ohakea for a new owner or a syndicate of owners - anyone checked if its off the NZ civil register yet...... and no you would not fly it there after such a long time out of action without a thorough inspection and engine check...........
I was going to say pretty much the same thing!
I think it's very unlikely that it would go overseas without being containerised and that would have been easier to do at Wanaka.
And secondly, the fact that it hasn't flown in a long time, I would have thought that it would need some fairly serious checks and possibly a bit of engineering before anyone even thought about trying to fly it.
And no, it's not off the register yet but that often doesn't happen until it registered somewhere else.
Then again, what do I know....maybe I'm being too optimistic that it's staying in NZ.....
Post by JamesStokes on Feb 11, 2013 16:17:36 GMT 12
Just read a post on facebook that confirms that P3351 has been sold to a customer in Europe... So sad to see her go but hopefully she'll have a bit more flying over there rather than sitting around as she has for years.
"Flying is a way of life; I could not and would not live without it."
- Fred Ladd
Platinum even posted a picture of the aircraft wrapped in plastic, sitting on a trailer. I posted this in response: "Congratulations to the new owner/s, I feel fortunate to have seen this aircraft at three airshows and I hope she is well looked after at her new home."
I well remember the howls of outrage that erupted when Wallis pranged his Spitfire at Waipukurau about how it shouldn't be flown etc etc.: I remember thinking at the time, it's his bloody airplane and if he wants to fly it - and crash it! - then that's his prerogative! I still feel that way; it's his gear and his to do with what he will, legalities notwithstanding.
Except in this case (as with all the other aircraft sold from this collection) "he" hasn't had a say in it! I'm sure Sir Tim will be very sad that she is leaving NZ.
No, but you can see the aircraft that go there at Christchurch airport. ;D
Yes things like C17s, C130s and B757s and in days gone by C5s, C141s, Connies etc. Got to see the odd twin engined Huey as well. Not ice bound but remebr the odd AN124 departing and every second Easter until 2008 F111s heading for Wanaka. Then there was Concorde more than once.
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ― George Orwell
Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 11, 2013 21:31:50 GMT 12
I think it would be nice to see people's photos of the Hurricane from over the years. I only got to see it flying at one airshow, Warbirds Over Wanaka 2006, and my photography wasn't too great sorry, but here are my photos. I'm sure many of you can do better:
It was always nice seeing her in formation with the Spitfire, reminded you of the Battle of Britain and those scary dark days in 1940. I have some photos of the Hurricane somewhere, i'll see if i can dig them out.
The Auster should be recognised for what it is: a gentleman's aerial touring carriage and a nice aeroplane.