flash
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 2
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Post by flash on May 13, 2013 7:32:57 GMT 12
Hi guys, just found this forum this evening and am very impressed with the amount of information on here.
I am researching Sgt Mcvicar, a flight engineer with 75Sqn. He was a flight engineer on Stirling BF513 which was lost on a raid over Stuttgart overnight 14th 15th April 1943. He was my father in laws cousin.
My father in law has visited his cousins grave and is planning a final visit next year. In preparation for this trip I would like to lay my hands on any info, photos of the aircraft or of Angus and the other crew members. Hope you can help. Keep up the good work.
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Post by errolmartyn on May 13, 2013 11:54:49 GMT 12
From my trilogy For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume Two: Fates 1943-1998):
Wed 14/Thu 15 Apr 1943 BOMBER COMMAND
Raid on Stuttgart, Germany (by 462 aircraft - 25 lost) . . .
75 (NZ) Squadron, RAF (Newmarket, Suffolk - 3 Group) Stirling III BF513/E - took off at 2132 and shot down by a night-fighter over Belgium at 0225, crashing near Regniéssart, 27km south of Florennes, where the seven crew are buried. Captain: NZ413573 Plt Off Donald Gordon McCASKILL, RNZAF - Age 19. 444hrs. 7th op. Navigator: NZ42295 Plt Off James Kennedy GRAINGER, RNZAF - Age 21. 249hrs. 4th op. Rear Gunner: NZ415378 Sgt Ronald Alexander SMITH, RNZAF - Age 21. 168hrs. 4th op.
And from Vol Three (Biographies & Appendices):
McCASKILL, Pilot Officer Donald Gordon. NZ413573; b Wgtn 11 Oct 23; Nelson Coll; student. RNZAF Ohakea as Aircrafthand (AMD) 23 Jun 41, ITW 6 Nov 41, remust as Airman Pilot u/t 11 Nov 41, 2EFTS 20 Dec 41, 3SFTS 7 Feb 42, 1SFTS 8 Mar 42, Pilots Badge [wef 4.4.42] & Sgt 13 Jun 42, att RAF & emb for UK 22 Jun 42, 3PRC 30 Jul 42, 3(P)AFU 18 Aug 42 [att 1519BATF for c.1 wk in Sep], 11OTU (Wellington) 27 Oct 42, 1657HCU (Stirling) 29 Jan 43 [att 90 Sqn (Stirling - 1 op) c.18-25 Feb, att 214 Sqn (Stirling - 1 op) c.26-27 Feb], Comm 21 Feb 43, 75(NZ)Sqn (Stirling - 5 ops) 14 Mar 43, kao 15 Apr 43. Florennes Communal Cemetery - 2.27, Namur, Belgium. Son of Lt Col Gordon Milton McCaskill & Mrs Gwendolyn Lillian McCaskill (née Rogers), Palm Nth. [OHT2 & phot. TWN 7.7.43].
Note: ‘TWN’ refers to the New Zealand publication The Weekly News. There is a small photo of McCaskill featured in its illustrated pages of 7 Jul 43. A scan of the photo can be obtained from the Air Force Museum of New Zealand for a small fee – info@airforcemuseum.co.nz
GRAINGER, Pilot Officer James Kennedy. NZ42295; b Shannon 1 Jan 22; Napier BHS; clerk - NZ Police, Wgtn. NZ Army/TF (NZ Scottish Regt) 9 mths; RNZAF Levin/ITW as Air Observer u/t 24 Jan 42, emb for Canada 5 Apr 42, att RCAF 30 Apr 42, 5 M Depôt 1 May 42, 1AOS 10 May 42, remust as Air Navigator u/t 7 Jun 42, Air Observers Badge [in lieu Air Navigators Badge] & Sgt 11 Sep 42, 1 Y Depôt 22 Sep 42, att RAF & emb for UK 25 Sep 42, 3PRC 9 Oct 42, 11OTU (Wellington) 28 Oct 42, 1657HCU (Stirling) 31 Jan 43, Comm 21 Feb 43, 75(NZ)Sqn (Stirling - 4 ops) 14 Mar 43, kao 15 Apr 43. Florennes Communal Cemetery - 2. coll. grave 22-26, Namur, Belgium. Son of William Kennedy & Ida Grainger Thomasina (née Main), Napier.
SMITH, Sergeant Ronald Alexander. NZ415378; b Lauriston 29 Oct 21; Ashburton HS (1st XI/XV); clerical cadet - 'NZ Govt', Wgtn. NZ Army/TF 10 mths; RNZAF Levin/ITW as Airman Pilot u/t 30 Sep 41, 1EFTS 8 Nov 41, emb for Canada 8 Jan 42, att RCAF 3 Feb 42, 1 M Depôt 5 Feb 42, 14SFTS 15 Feb 42, pilot trg terminated, KTS, remust as Air Observer u/t 29 May 42, remust as Air Gunner u/t 10 Jun 42, 4BGS 21 Jun 42, Air Gunners Badge & Sgt 14 Aug 42, 34OTU (Ventura) 11 Sep 42 [cancelled?], 1 Y Depôt 15 Sep 42, att RAF & emb for UK 25 Sep 42, 3PRC 9 Oct 42, 11OTU (Wellington) 28 Oct 42, 1657HCU (Stirling) 1 Feb 43, 75(NZ)Sqn (Stirling - 4 ops) 14 Mar 43, kao 15 Apr 43. Florennes Communal Cemetery - 2. coll. grave 22-26, Namur, Belgium. Son of David Watson & Agnes Adelaide Smith (née Doyle), Ashburton.
The crew were buried at 1900hrs on the 16th.
Errol
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Post by phil82 on May 13, 2013 12:31:00 GMT 12
I have a copy of the excellent book "Night After Night", which has a full chapter on [NZ] losses in 1943, but there is no mention of a Sgt McVicar as RNZAF, so presumably he was British?....sorry!
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Post by fwx on May 13, 2013 15:12:59 GMT 12
Yes, he was RAF:
McVICAR Sgt Angus, RAF, (1371651) FE 14 Mar to 15 Apr 1943. c/w D G McCaskill.
From the official 75 history:
BF513 was shot down by an enemy night-fighter (Lt Fritz Graef, I. /NJG4) over Belgium at 02.25hrs, crashing at Regniéssart, (Namur), 3 miles SE of Couvin.
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waynem
Pilot Officer
Posts: 46
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Post by waynem on May 13, 2013 16:13:56 GMT 12
Hi Flash,
Sgt McVicar was lost on his 4th op with the McCaskill crew.
27/28 March 43. Berlin. P/O McCaskill 2nd Pilot with P/O Lowe.
28/29 March 43. St. Nazaire. First op with own crew.
8/9 April 43. Mining In The Gironde Estuary.
10 April 43. Frankfurt. On return attacked by a single engine enemy aircraft.
14/15 April 43. Stuttgart. Missing from operations.
Thats all I have at the moment. Cheers, Wayne.
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Post by errolmartyn on May 13, 2013 16:58:54 GMT 12
Yes, he was RAF: McVICAR Sgt Angus, RAF, (1371651) FE 14 Mar to 15 Apr 1943. c/w D G McCaskill. From the official 75 history: BF513 was shot down by an enemy night-fighter (Lt Fritz Graef, I. /NJG4) over Belgium at 02.25hrs, crashing at Regniéssart, (Namur), 3 miles SE of Couvin. There is no 'official' history that I am aware of, but from the latest research per Dr Theo E W Boiten's 2007 Nachtjagd War Diaries - An operational history of the German night fighter force in the West, Volume One, September 1939-March 1944: "Lt. Friedrich Graeff [note spelling]: 4[thvictory credit] Stab I./NJG4, Stirling, Régniéssart, 5 km. S.S.E. Namur: 3400 m, 02.23, 75 Sqn Stirling BF513" Errol
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Post by Luther Moore on May 13, 2013 19:12:56 GMT 12
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Post by phil82 on May 14, 2013 9:29:45 GMT 12
Bloody hell..... it always gets me... but a 19-year-old pilot of a four-engined bomber...... For comparison I looked long and hard at my 19-year-old grandson...
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Post by fwx on May 14, 2013 13:15:08 GMT 12
Hi Errol, thanks for the correction.
Sorry, I was referring to "A History of No 75 Squadron, RAF/ RNZAF 1916-1919 1939-1945 1946-2001", the history and nominal roll produced by 75 Squadron Association of New Zealand, Editor Stewart Boys. The history is based on the Operational Diaries, but is available only on disc at this stage I think.
Thanks Luther for the Cenotaph links - McCaskill's entry says the crew was "A" Flight, so the aircraft was probably coded "AA-E".
3 Group Bomber Command, an Operational Record, by Chris Ward & Steve Smith, records BF513 as "AA-E".
Cheers, Chris
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Post by Luther Moore on May 14, 2013 20:25:32 GMT 12
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Post by Luther Moore on May 14, 2013 20:36:56 GMT 12
Bloody hell..... it always gets me... but a 19-year-old pilot of a four-engined bomber...... For comparison I looked long and hard at my 19-year-old grandson... You can't fly a four engine bomber with an Iphone app or Xbox controller,so they might struggle ;D
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Post by stanford on Sept 25, 2013 2:53:42 GMT 12
Hello, I allow to contact you concerning a research for informations, for contacts, for documents and for photos about the crash of the bomber Short Stirling BF513 coded AA-E shot down on April 15th, 1943 in Belgium, in the Forest of Nismes, near the hamlet of Regniessart. My approach joins in an inquiry formulated by the Municipality of Viroinval; the information, the testimonies and the photos being intended to feed the exposures and the diverse activities which will be programmed, from 2014, within the framework of the remembrance of the 100th anniversary of the 1st world war and the 70th anniversary of the end of the Second World War. You will find, in attachment, the documents which I was able to gather by means of the Museum of the Air of Brussels. The Bomber was shot down during a raid on Stuttgart on April 15th, 1943 at 02:25 am by Lt. Fritz GRAEF of I. / NJG 4 based to Florennes. The crew which 3 New Zealanders always rests in the municipal cemetery of Florennes: P/O D.G. McCASKILL RNZAF Sgt A. McVICAR P/O J.K. GRAINGER RNZAF Sgt B. ELWELL Sgt R.T.C. GREEN Sgt E.D. COOK Sgt R.A. SMITH RNZAF I may ask you to open an entry on your blog about this bomber hoping that members of your group can enrich our documentation and help us, maybe to find desccendants of the members of this crew Stirling AA-E exploded during flight and fragments fell in a 300 meter shelf approximately. maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=215837952421140314776.0004e707a35a0a435c11fThank you already for the help which you can, I hope for it, bring me. Best Regards
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Post by stanfordtuck on Oct 17, 2013 20:52:00 GMT 12
Hello, I tried to contact "Flash" by private message. He looked for her part further information on the crash of the short Stirling BF513. From my part I live in the municipality on which the plane fell and the municipal authorities intend to organize a commemorative ceremony in 2014. Get in touch with "Flash" would be very interesting. If anybody knows "Flash" or is capable of contacting him, he could inform him about the initiative undertaken in Belgium and communicate him my address and phone number ?
Guy Lapaille 23, rue du Château 5670 VIROINVAL (Belgium) +3260390838 guy.lapaille@skynet.be
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buffalo
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 1
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Post by buffalo on Oct 18, 2013 0:31:10 GMT 12
Hi Guy,
It seems we are following the same pad for searching informations about Short Stirling MkIII BF513!
I hope that Flash will give news quickly!
Best Regards.
Sylvain
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Post by stanford on Oct 18, 2013 20:40:37 GMT 12
Hi buffalo, Yes, the memory of these young men who gave their life for our freedom was never honored in my City.
We prepare a remembrance in 2014 and I participate in the researches to reconstitute the fate of this crew.
Have you a family ties with one of the members of this crew or do you know descendants who would may come in Belgium to participate in this remembrance? Thanks
stanford
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Post by 75nzsquadron.com on Oct 20, 2013 21:09:08 GMT 12
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Post by stanford on Oct 22, 2013 20:34:15 GMT 12
Thank you Simon
I hope wholeheartedly that "Flash" is going to show itself quickly!
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Post by stanford on Mar 21, 2014 5:52:07 GMT 12
Until now, no contact with "Flash" which would have been able to be the link with Angus McVicar's family; it's a pity. At this stage, I was able to find and to get in touch with the family of four crew members of the BF513. Among three others is Officer Pilote James Kennedy GRAINGER (R.N.Z.A.F. 42295) I thus allow to request the help of the members of the New Zealand site to open a track ... James GRAINGER was born on the 1st January, 1922 at Shannon, and received his secondary education at Napier. At the time of his making application for aircrew training with the R.N.Z.A.F. -on the 12th March, 1941 - he was employed as a clerck by the Police Department, Wellington. He served for 9 months in the Territorials, as a member oh the N.Z. Scottish Regiment. P/O Grainger was enlisted at Levin on the 25th January, 1942, and, on satifactorily completing his initial training embarked for Canada on the 5th April, 1942. At that time, the parents of James Grainger lived 207, Carlyle Street NAPIER. I have just this photo of James
www.dropbox.com/s/hj9bspoxvk2qdsx/James%20Grainger%20portrait.JPG
Many Thanks
Stanford
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flash
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 2
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Post by flash on Mar 31, 2014 22:18:16 GMT 12
Hi guys, sorry for dropping out of contact, I lost all info on this site and just stumbled across them this morning. If you want I can PM you my father in laws details and you can speak to him directly Regards Flash
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Post by fwx on Apr 1, 2014 12:28:27 GMT 12
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