The RNZAF in the Korean War

[Dave Homewood]

Was the RNZAF involved with the Korean War at all? The Army was heavily involved there, so I assume they must have had air transport in support of their efforts? Were troops, supplies, mail etc transported from home by No's 40 and 41 Sqn's? Were any RNZAF men attached directly to foreign squadrons there as was the case in the Viet Nam War?

[Dave Homewood]

I note from Wikipedia that New Zealand sent, along with the volunteer Army force called Kayforce, six frigates into battle in the Korean conflict. They were HMNZS Pukaki, Tutira, Rotoiti, Taupo, Hawea and Kaniere, as well as smaller naval craft! Amazing, I never realised we ever had six frigates at one time. One sailor was killed in the Battle of Inchon.

Wiki also states "A New Zealander flying with the Royal Air Force was also captured when he was shot down near P'yongyang, and was repatriated at around the same time."

Does anyone know who this airman was and the story behind it?

[FlyNavy]

Vaguely I am aware that New Zealand aircrew were involved in the Korean War with either the RAN or RN FAA. Somewhere or other I have a PDF about the NZers from a magazine article a few years ago in "FlyPast"? or similar magazine. Was a little annoyed at the time because no mention was made of RAN involvement. Sigh. ;D

Now that I have pondered some more I think the article was about RAAF aircrew in Korea while RNZAF or similar Kiwi aircrew were mentioned. Of course I'll have to find the info. You may recall a biography of a former Kiwi turned RAN FAA pilot Jimmy Bowles who served in Korea as CO of 805 Sea Fury Squadron from HMAS Sydney.

[corsair67]

The only Kiwi pilot that I can think of that flew in Korea with another air force was Vance Drummond who was shot down while flying F-8 Meteors and spent several years in a POW camp in North Korea.


www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A140042b.htm


Drummond, Vance (1927 - 1967)
Birth: 22 February 1927, Hamilton, New Zealand
Death: 17 May 1967, at sea
Cultural Heritage: New Zealander
Occupation: air force officer
prisoner of war (Australian)


DRUMMOND, VANCE (1927-1967), air force officer, was born on 22 February 1927 at Hamilton, New Zealand, third of six children of Leonard Henry Vance Drummond, office manager, and his wife Dorothy Josephine May, née McKnight, both New Zealand born. Educated at Hamilton West Public and Te Awamutu District High schools, Vance left early to help his father farm. Leonard's four sons were all interested in flying; Fred, the eldest, was killed in 1941 while serving in the Royal Australian Air Force. In May 1944 Vance joined the Royal New Zealand Air Force. His training ended in September 1945 and in October he was demobilized as sergeant navigator.


In March 1946 Drummond enlisted in the New Zealand Military Forces. He was sent to Japan in July with 'J' Force and qualified as an interpreter. Back in New Zealand in October 1948, he left the army and applied to rejoin the R.N.Z.A.F., hoping to train as a fighter pilot. When he was rejected as being too old, he moved to Australia and was accepted by the R.A.A.F. on 29 August 1949.


Graduating top of his course as sergeant pilot in February 1951, Drummond was posted to No.78 Wing at Williamtown, New South Wales, and in August to No.77 Squadron in Korea with which he flew Gloster Meteor jets against superior Soviet-built MiG-15s. He was recommended for the American Air Medal (gazetted 1953) and commissioned on 30 November 1951. Next day his aircraft was shot down and he was captured by the North Koreans. On Good Friday, 1952, he and four companions escaped from Pinchon-ni prisoner-of-war camp, but all were recaptured and punished. Drummond was repatriated in September 1953.


After completing courses in advanced navigation and fighter-combat instruction, in 1954 Drummond became an initial member of the R.A.A.F.'s Sabre Trials Flight at Williamtown. In St Peter's Anglican Church, Hamilton, Newcastle, on 9 September 1955 he married a law clerk Margaret Hope Buckham. He was posted to headquarters, Home (Operational) Command, Penrith, in 1959 and attended the R.A.A.F. Staff College, Canberra, in 1961.


By December Drummond was a flight commander in No.75 Squadron. He was promoted squadron leader in January 1962 and in October took charge of the unit's 'Black Diamonds' aerobatic team, the official R.A.A.F. squad. The team's Sabres became a familiar sight at functions around Australia. They gave displays at the Seventh British Empire and Commonwealth Games in Perth in November, the Royal Hobart Regatta, attended by Queen Elizabeth II, in February 1963 and in Port Moresby in June 1964 to celebrate the opening of Papua New Guinea's House of Assembly. Drummond was awarded the Air Force Cross (1965) for his work in No.75 Squadron and his leadership of the 'Black Diamonds'.


From December 1964 he carried out staff duties at the Department of Air, Canberra. Twelve months later he was promoted acting wing commander (substantive January 1967) and sent to the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam) where he was attached to the United States Air Force. On 8 July 1966 he joined the 19th Tactical Air Support Squadron as a forward air controller. He flew in a Cessna 0-1 'Bird Dog', a two-seat observation aircraft, nicknamed 'Snoopy'.


On the night of 24-25 July Drummond and his American pilot went to the aid of an army company which was surrounded by troops of the People's Liberation Armed Forces (Viet Cong). Despite heavy anti-aircraft fire, they kept low, dropping flares, illuminating enemy positions, and calling up support from fighter-bombers and helicopter-gunships. They flew for a total of eleven hours in four sorties, in addition to the five hours which they had flown in daylight on the 24th. By dawn on the 25th the soldiers had been saved. Drummond was to be awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. For similar work on 27 October, he won the Republic of Vietnam's Cross of Gallantry with Silver Star. He flew a total of 381 operational missions and set a high standard for Australian F.A.C.s who followed him.


Returning home, on 20 February 1967 Drummond assumed command of No.3 Squadron at Williamtown. On 17 May that year he and three other pilots were engaged in training exercises off the New South Wales coast. At 4.20 p.m., about 50 miles (80 km) north-east of Newcastle, his Mirage went into a dive and plummeted into the sea. Neither his body nor the aircraft was recovered. Margaret took their only child, 9-year-old David, to Government House, Canberra, to receive Vance's D.F.C. on 5 April 1968.

Select Bibliography
G. Odgers, Across the Parallel (Melb, 1952); G. Odgers, Mission Vietnam (Canb, 1974); Mirage, June 1967; D. Newton, 'Black Diamond Leader', Australian Aviation, Dec 1982; Age (Melbourne), 13 Sept 1967; Courier-Mail (Brisbane), 13 Sept 1967; Sydney Morning Herald, 18, 19, 23 May 1967; New Zealand Herald, 23 Sept 1967; private information. More on the resources

Author: Dennis Newton

Print Publication Details: Dennis Newton, 'Drummond, Vance (1927 - 1967)', Australian Dictionary of Biography, Volume 14, Melbourne University Press, 1996, pp 40-41.

[FlyNavy]

With the Carriers in Korea - The Sea and Air War in SE Asia, 1950-1953

Author John R.P. Lansdown
Publisher Crecy
ISBN # 0947554645

"Although within living memory of those who took part, and their families, the Korean war has been largely neglected in publishing. There have been only a small number of books available and these have tended to detail the actions of the British, Commonwealth and US Armies. The fact that the British and Commonwealth navies, and particularly the Fleet Air Arm, were heavily involved has been largely overlooked. This imbalance has at last been redresses by an author who, as a Lt. Commander, served with the Fleet Air Arm (FAA) in Korea on board the aircraft carrier H.M.S. Glory. In this book, John Lansdown has produced the definitive record of this era, including a historical perspective of the period leading up to the conflict and a full and detailed history of sea and air operations in South East Asia from 1950-1953. All Royal Navy and United States ships involved in the conflict are mentioned, and all the carrier which saw action are detailed in the text. This vital work of reference is enlivened by a stunning photographic content and extracts from the Squadron Diaries and Line Books, covering every day that aircraft flew into battle. A Unique and absorbing book."

Might be useful?

[FlyNavy]

The list of references at the end of the HTML pages at URL below might be helpful?

www.navalofficer.com.au/navav.htm

RAN aviation rarely mentioned
With rare exceptions, e.g. George Odgers (2000).
Australian naval aviation contributions to the Korean War
receive short shrift in the British, American and even Australian historical records, e.g. Ben Evans (2000), James Field mentions Sydney just twice in parts of six lines in his 457-page official USN history of Korea. Cagle and Manson award Sydney two lines in their 555 pages.
Even relatively careful and sympathetic authors like Odgers have been led astray. Although five were destroyed, only one, not four, aircraft were lost overboard from HMAS Sydney during Typhoon Ruth. Odgers and many others also neglect an interesting international/interservice RAN-related rescue, discussed later, of the co-pilot of an American B-29 shot down in the Battle of Namsi on 23 October 1951.

[FlyNavy]

New Zealanders are likely to be mentioned here:
www.awm.gov.au/korea/ausinkorea/contributions.htm

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks for the info.

I hope to soon do a filmed interview with an ex-NZ army officer who was in Korea. He has agreed to do it, just have to arrange it with him now. I look forward to it because I think perhaps it might be NZ's least recorded war in terms of info and personal stories. Even the Boer War has several books on the NZ commitment but I have not seen more than a few pages in books on our Korea efforts.

[FlyNavy]

Article found but not scanned yet to PDF. 5 pages in "FlyPast" magazine February 2006 "Kiwis over Korea" pp61-65. I'll e-mail the PDF to you Dave. What is a maximum e-mail attachment size for you please?

[Dave Homewood]

Actually, I believe I have that article. I'd forgotten all about it, but I bought that issue at the time I think but never got round to rerading it. So don't email yet, I'll have a hunt.

[FlyNavy]

OK. Let me know. I'll scan it anyway for my own use. Probably the other moderator will threaten me with a handgun for a copy. ;D

Sent to both moderators now - let me know if at 1.1Mb if the PDF is unreadable onscreen.

[corsair67]

Probably the other moderator will threaten me with a handgun for a copy

Too bloody right! ;D

[tbf25o4]

Dave,

there were several ground crew who were attached to N0.205 Squadron at Seleter (Sunderlands) who flew on operational patrols over the Japanese inland sea protecting convoys from Japan to Korea. They had "volunteered" to become gunners at the RAF were short of crews at the time. This will be revealed in Ian Gibbons new book on New Zealand in the Korean War

Paul

[paddy]

admin said:

Thanks for the info.

I hope to soon do a filmed interview with an ex-NZ army officer who was in Korea. He has agreed to do it, just have to arrange it with him now. I look forward to it because I think perhaps it might be NZ's least recorded war in terms of info and personal stories. Even the Boer War has several books on the NZ commitment but I have not seen more than a few pages in books on our Korea efforts.

Hi Dave,
My father was in the Army (Artillery) during the Korean War. I've only been able to find 1 book that mentioned K Force (2 pages) and that was about Australian involvement.
Two things I remember Dad saying about it. He flew from NZ to Australia on a noisy slow Sunderland and the day before the Armistice they fired a 24 hour Fire Mission. Dad said that was the hardest he had worked in his entire life and, if you knew my father, that's saying something

[Dave Homewood]

tbf25o4 said:

Dave,

there were several ground crew who were attached to N0.205 Squadron at Seleter (Sunderlands) who flew on operational patrols over the Japanese inland sea protecting convoys from Japan to Korea. They had "volunteered" to become gunners at the RAF were short of crews at the time. This will be revealed in Ian Gibbons new book on New Zealand in the Korean War

Paul

Interesting stuff Paul, great to hear a book by a decent historian is going to cover that often forgotten period. The RNZAF groundcrews attached to No. 205 Squadron is rather reminiscent of the Singapore Ferry Flight ground crew members ten years before, eh.

[corsair67]

......and the day before the Armistice they fired a 24 hour Fire Mission. Dad said that was the hardest he had worked in his entire life and, if you knew my father, that's saying something

Yeah, but at least they didn't have a whole heap of unused ammo to pack up and move out with them when they left the position. ;D

[smithy]

Apparently one Kiwi serving with the RAF was shot down and captured during the Korean War but I was wondering whether any other Kiwis served with 77 Sqn RAAF or were serving on exchange from the RAF with the USAF during the war.

Thanks for any help,

Tim

[Dave Homewood]

It's generally known that the only member of the NZ Armed Forces who was taken prisoner in the Korean conflict was Gunner Graeme Garland, Royal New Zealand Artillery, from Cambridge.

Vance Drummond was a kiwi flying with the RAAF and taken prisoner so I assume that's who you're referring to?
rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/3379#

John Gard'ner was a kiwi in the RAF who was on exchange to the USMC and served in Korea in Skyknight night fighters. John wasn't shot down though, he never saw an enemy aircraft.

[errolmartyn]

Just some of those who so served:

From my For Your Tomorrow - A record of New Zealanders who have died while serving with the RNZAF and Allied Air Services since 1915 (Volume Three: Biographies & Appendices):

DRUMMOND, Wing Commander Vance, AFC, DFC(US), Air Medal (US), Bronze Star (US), Cross of Gallantry (Rep of Vietnam). O33624 (NZC443032 in RNZAF, 813617 in 2NZEF/J Force, prev A33624 in RAAF); b Hamilton 22 Feb 27*; Te Awamutu DHS; farm hand - father's farm Tahura, Morrinsville. ATC 2 yrs; RNZAF Delta ACH (Aircrew) 12 May 44, remust as Aircrew u/t & ITW 11 Nov 44, Taieri [for Grading School?] 29 Dec 44, remust as Air Navigator u/t & OTP 5 May 45, SoN&R 26 May 45, Air Navigators Badge & Sgt 30 Aug 45, Res 3 Oct 45, discharged 1 Mar 46; NZ Army ('J' Force) 8 Mar 46, emb for Japan 30 Jul 46, arr 19 Aug 46 [after 5mth cse at Kure, served as Japanese-English linguist on special investigation & intelligence duties and cypher operator], Sgt 1 Apr 47, rtd to NZ 5 Oct 48, discharged 27 Nov 48; to Australia; RAAF Point Cook/1FTS as Trainee Pilot 29 Aug 49, Pilots Badge & Sgt 22 Feb 51, 78 Wing (Mustang, Vampire) 26 Feb 51, to Korea & 77 Sqn (Meteor – 50 ops) 21 Aug 51, Comm 30 Nov 51, shot down by MiG-15 & PoW 1 Dec 51, 'released to unit' 1 Sep 53, by air Japan to NZ via Australia 10-15 Sep 53, rtd to Australia, Laverton 9 Nov 53, CFS 18 Nov 53, SAN 25 Jan 54, 2OTU [redesignated 2OCU 1.9.58] (Vampire) as staff pilot 1 Jun 54 [att 1AFTS 27 Sep-5 Nov, att ARDU 6-15 Nov, att Sabre Trials Flight 10 Dec-1 Apr 55, att AAS 2 Jul 56-31 Aug, att Fighter Combat Instructors Sch as OC c.Feb 57-Jan 59], PComm 5 Aug 54, HQ Home Command/Fighter Ops for staff duties 27 Jan 59 [att 1 Control & Reporting Unit 2 Feb-24 Apr, att Air Support Unit 2-22 Mar 60, att Guided Weapons Instructional Unit 16-27 May], RAAF Staff Coll 23 Jan 61, 81 Wing 11 Dec 61 [att CFS (Vampire) for r/cse 8-19 Jan 62, att 2OCU (Sabre) 2 Feb-16 Mar], 76 Sqn (Sabre) Mar 62, 75 Sqn (Sabre) Jul 62 [leader of Sqn's Black Diamonds aerobatic team from Nov 62, to Malaya/att 78 Wing & rtn 12 Sep-5 Oct 64], Dept of Air/Fighter Ops 14 Dec 64 [to Korea (Pusan) & rtn on temp duty 19-29 May 65], to South Vietnam & att USAF/7th Air Force 17 Dec 65 [att Tactical Air Control Centre, later att Direct Air Support Center & FAC (O-1F), att 25th ARVN Div as ALO 8 Jul-24 Nov 66; flew 381 ops as FAC], rtd to Australia & Dept of Air 9 Dec 66, HQ Williamtown 9 Jan 67, 3 Sqn (Mirage) as CO 20 Feb 67 [att 2FOCU (Mirage) 10 Apr-death], kaa 17 May 67. Mirage Memorial, RAAF Base Darwin, NT, Australia. Son of Leonard Henry Vance & Dorothy Josephine May Drummond (née McKnight), Hamilton; h of Margaret Hope Drummond & f of 1s, Williamtown, NSW, Australia. Note: * gave date of birth as 22 Nov 25 on enlistment in RNZAF and NZEF. First NZer to use ejection seat in emergency, 1.12.51. Brother of Frederick, above [not quoted here in this post] .

COWPER, Pilot Officer Lionel Henry Cadogan,* Air Medal (US).
O33831 (prev A33831); b Auckland 4 Nov 26; to Australia by 1937; Hampton HS, Melbourne, Vic. & Geraldton HS, WA; cadet engineer - Government Aircraft Factory, Fisherman's Bend. ATC 1 Sqn 1943-1944; RAAF Point Cook/1FTS as Trainee Aircrew 27 Feb 50, remust as Trainee Pilot 26 Aug 50, Pilots Badge & Sgt 2 Aug 51, 78 Wing 6 Aug 51, 76 Sqn (Mustang), 75 Sqn (Vampire), by air to Korea 2 Jan 52, 77 Sqn (Meteor - 72 or 73 ops) 3 Jan 52, SSComm 29 Mar 52, kao 30 Mar 52. United Nations Memorial to the Missing, Pusan, South Korea. Son of Gerald Audrey Cadogan & Irene Estelle Cowper, Melbourne, Australia. Note: * birth reg as Lionel Harry Cowper.

MacPHERSON, Lieutenant (A) Cedric Alexander.
(no No.) (NZ432980 in RNZAF); b Dargaville 8 Oct 23; ed?; student. NZ Army/TF (NZE & Auckland Regt) 1 Apr 42 to 27 Feb 43; RNZAF Whenuapai ACH (AD) 1 Mar 43, Seagrove 30 Apr 43, Whenuapai 27 May 43, New Plymouth 25 Jun 43, remust as Aircrew u/t & Rotorua 19 Aug 43, remust as Airman Pilot u/t 11 Nov 43, 2EFTS 13 Nov 43, 1SFTS 15 Jan 44, Pilots Badge [wef 3.4.44] & Sgt 11 Jun 44, att RAF & emb for UK 1 Jul 44, 12PD&RC 8 Aug 44 [att Whitley Bay for NCOs cse 18 Oct-15 Nov], ctba & discharged 13 Mar 45; RNZNVR & Comm & loaned to RN/FAA & HMS Macaw/Bootle for flying trg cse 14 Mar 45, HMS Macaw/Bootle for fighter cse 16 Jul 45, HMS Gannet/Eglinton 30 Oct 45, HMNZS Cook/Wellington for rtn to NZ 10 Jan 46, rtd to NZ Mar 46, HMS Philomel/Auckland 19 [22?] Mar 46, Res 19 May 46; RN/FAA SSComm & by air to UK 15 Oct 51, HMS Heron/Yeovilton 25 Oct 51, 799 Sqn (Firefly/Seafire) 29 Oct 51, HMS Phoenix/Portsmouth for cse 26 Nov 51, HMS Victory/Portsmouth for cse 3 Dec 51, Rochester (Oxford) for IF cse 2 Jan 52, HMS Siskin/Gosport 28 Jan 52, HMS Fulmar/Lossiemouth (Firefly) for fighter cse 16 Feb 52, HMS Seahawk/Culdrose (Sea Fury) for fighter cse 28 Feb 52, HMS Pembroke/Eastchurch 27 Aug 52, by air to join Sqn 5 Sep 52, 801 Sqn (Sea Fury) 12 Sep 52 [Sqn emb on light fleet carrier HMS Glory-death], kao 11 Feb 53. United Nations Memorial to the Missing, Pusan, South Korea. Son of Alexander Joseph & Elizabeth Jane MacPherson (formerly Finlayson, née Blong).


From Colin Hanson’s 'By Such Deeds - Honours and Awards in the Royal New Zealand Air Force, 1923-1999':

Le LONG, Flight Lieutenant Roy Emile, DFC*.
NZ42419; Born Auckland, 12 Dec 1917; RNZAF 11 Jan 1942 to 15 Jun 1947; Pilot.
Later Wg Cdr R E Le Long DFC*, AFC, Air Medal (US), RAF 1947 to 13 Oct 1957, 59129. AFC NY1956. Air Medal (US) 30 Oct 1953 In recognition of valuable services rendered during operations in Korea.
Citation Distinguished Flying Cross (Imm) (14 Nov 1944): [605 Sqn RAF (Mosquito)]
also - Plt Off J A McLaren, RAFVR.
These officers are pilot and navigator of aircraft respectively. They have completed very many sorties during which they have effectively attacked numerous locomotives, sundry barges, and much mechanical transport. In October, 1944, they saw 13 Dornier 24s at their moorings at a Baltic base. Flying Officer Le Long immediately dived to the attack. His first burst of fire struck one of the flying boats which burst into flames. For ten minutes he pressed home a series of attacks frequently flying through the thick smoke and debris hurled into the air by exploding aircraft 5 of which were left in burning, broken and sinking condition; 2 more were emitting dense smoke. A little later when they were out to sea a BV 138 was encountered. A sharp engagement ensued. Following a burst of machine gun fire from Flying Officer Le Long’s guns the enemy aircraft broke away with smoke pouring from it. Some time afterwards when over enemy territory the aircraft was hit by anti-aircraft fire. One engine was put out of action but Flying officer Le Long went on to reach base. Throughout this spirited sortie this gallant and dauntless pilot was splendidly supported by his navigator Pilot Officer McLaren whose undoubted ability, great coolness and resolution contributed materially to the success achieved.
Citation Bar to Distinguished Flying Cross (11 May 1945): [Fighter Experimental Flight, RAF (Mosquito)] This officer has completed a large number of sorties, many of them involving attacks on airfields far into enemy territory. By the skilful execution of his most careful plans, Flying Officer Le Long has inflicted much loss on the enemy. Included in his successes is the destruction of 5 enemy aircraft in the air; he has also most effectively attacked several more on the ground. Fearless, cool and determined, this officer has set an example of a high order.
WWII Fighter Ace. Credited with the destruction of seven enemy aircraft in the air with one probable and one damaged. Also seven destroyed on the ground or water, four shared destroyed, one probable, 14 damaged and 19 shared damaged. All with 605 Sqn/Experimental Fighter Flight RAF (Mosquito). On the eve of D-Day Fg Off Le Long shot down an Me 410 over the German airfield of Évreux - the last German aircraft destroyed before D-Day. Another New Zealander, J A Houlton (qv), shot down the first German aircraft destroyed on D-Day - a Ju 88. On 2 Apr 1943, as an instructor with 8 SFTS in New Brunswick, Canada, F/S Le Long’s Anson crashed into trees due to bad weather - the aircraft immediately catching fire. Although suffering from serious head and leg injuries he walked for eight miles to the nearest road eventually reaching a hospital 13 hours after the crash. During post-war service with the RAF he flew F-86 Sabre jets in Korea on exchange with the 5th USAF, being awarded the American Air Medal. His AFC was awarded following his tour as CO 43 Sqn RAF (Meteor/Hunter) Jan 1953-Aug 1955. Also CO 257 Sqn RAF (Hunter), 1955-1957.

Errol

[smithy]

Thank you so much Dave and Errol. That's just what I was after.

I'm an absolute dullard when it comes to the Korean War so it's nice to be put in the right direction.

Thanks once again guys,

Tim