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Post by conman on Aug 20, 2013 23:07:21 GMT 12
This guy is convinced that the bush moa still exist www.auforn.com/Rex_Gilroy_10.htmI had a moa sighting in my fridge recently, definitely an endangered species ! |
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Post by smithy on Aug 20, 2013 23:34:48 GMT 12
It is generally thought that the Haast eagle died out not long after the moa because the moa were their main prey. Having said that, if they lasted until European times, then I'm quite glad Charlie Douglas shot the last one, because an eagle that is capable of carrying off a grown man does not full me with joyous abandon. I was at the Currumbun Wildlife Park in South East Queensland 10 years ago and they have a sea eagle there. The sea eagle is quite a large and impressive bird and it was perched on a 4m post above me. I think it was probably about the size of a half grown Haast eagle. The talons on the sea eagle were impressive too. They used to have a life size reproduction of a Haast's Eagle at a lookput station up in the Waitakere Ranges (west Auckland) which was impressive. NZ Geographic did a magnificent article on the eagle back in the early 90s which led to my fascination with this impressive creature. Talons the size of a tiger's claws and the impact when it struck was the same as a breeze block dropped off a five storey building! I like to think that maybe, just maybe there's a remote chance that one of the small bush moa species could still survive in one of the more inaccessible parts of Fiordland. There's bits down there where nobody has been so who knows  |
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Post by ngatimozart on Aug 21, 2013 2:38:59 GMT 12
Yet another potentially interesting thread has strayed of the topic... The Haast eagle and the Moa are closely interlinked so I don't think that the thread per se has strayed off topic. |
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Post by conman on Aug 21, 2013 8:58:34 GMT 12
Yes and the Haast eagle is 100x more awesome than any Moa, and it flies so it is more relevant to Aviation !  When gliding you often get joined by hawks etc it would be pretty amazing to be joined in a thermal by a Haast Eagle if not slightly scary  |
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Post by corsair5517 on Aug 21, 2013 9:02:40 GMT 12
At Wingspan in Rotorua there is a series of silhouettes of the NZ falcon, the Australasian Harrier and Haasts Eagle; it was an enormous bird for sure, but carrying off a man is perhaps a little bit of lily gilding!!
I've seen wedge-tailed eagles on the ground here and, boy howdy; they're BIG and to think that Haasts Eagle was more massive - not necessarily that much bigger, per se - beggars belief....
I've hunted all through South Westland as well and have seen browse lines in the bush that are much higher than a red stag could reach, and one of my hunting companions has a clump of hair that we found on a tree where it had rubbed off as the animal had brushed past which is not wapiti or red deer; he sent a sample to the DSIR but I left NZ before the results were known.
It's not inconceivable that the smaller bush moa could exist down in there, but it really is tiger country and its always wet; my personal opinion is that the moa is gone for good.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 21, 2013 9:03:47 GMT 12
Did you even read the thread Paul, it had strayed off into a 'pick on Dave as he doesn't know of any geography outside of Cambridge' bullshit topic. Frankly I'm getting pissed off with some of the "humour" focused toward me regarding Cambridge.
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Post by Andy Wright on Aug 21, 2013 9:52:08 GMT 12
After reading this thread yesterday I went off and did a google to remind myself about the Moa and the Haast's Eagle due to my general fascination with birds and raptors in particular. Very much a case of 'what might have been'.
There is some conjecture that Douglas might have shot a pair of Eyles' Harriers, IIRC, which were a larger version of the Swamp Harrier and considered more likely to have survived into the 1800s as they're diet was much more varied.
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Post by scrooge on Aug 21, 2013 11:42:27 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 21, 2013 14:34:45 GMT 12
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Post by ngatimozart on Aug 21, 2013 17:04:44 GMT 12
Did you even read the thread Paul, it had strayed off into a 'pick on Dave as he doesn't know of any geography outside of Cambridge' bullshit topic. Frankly I'm getting pissed off with some of the "humour" focused toward me regarding Cambridge. Yes I read the thread and put the non moa & eagle stuff aside. The ability of the Haast eagle to carry off a man is not lilly gilding as one person put it. There is evidence of the large moas with talon punctures in the bone structures leaving patterns that suggest lifting and those birds were estimated to be 100 plus kgs. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 21, 2013 18:11:31 GMT 12
That's not proof, though. The moa may have been long dead and the eagle scavenging.
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Post by Andy Wright on Aug 21, 2013 18:31:03 GMT 12
I don't know about the bird being able to lift 100kg plus. I'd certainly agree to its striking power being able to kill something that large and, therefore, being able to kill a human.
The Stellar's Sea Eagle, on average the heaviest raptor in the world today, weighs in at up to 9kg. I can't find anything on the weight of the prey it can take but the Harpy Eagle which, on average is a lighter bird (but bigger in some other stats), can take prey up to and over 7kg. Since the Harpy Eagle in particular is a forest bird and has shorter wings, relatively for its size, to enable it to manoeuvre among the trees, I'd say the Haast's Eagle, based on it apparently having shorter wings as well, could lift prey at least up to 14kg if it weighed up to 18kg (which is mind-blowing in itself).
That's just me applying my logic based on what birds today can do. 100kg just doesn't make sense to me. Whatever the case, the fact of the matter is the Haast's Eagle is really just beyond comprehension. A magnificent creature.
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Post by smithy on Aug 21, 2013 18:53:20 GMT 12
In the NZ Geographic article they discussed how it was believed that Haast's Eagles attacked humans out of misidentification. Maori at this time often wore Moa feather cloaks for warmth and an eagle flying spotting for prey and seeing a figure in the plumage of its usual prey would think it a moa and attack. Whether the could carry a fully grown man off is debatable but the impact from a strike would have inflicted massive damage. Maori legend speaks of the Pouakai, a large bird which could kill and it is thought that this was possibly Haast's Eagle.
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Post by suthg on Aug 21, 2013 19:43:44 GMT 12
From what I have read of the Haast Eagle and the Giant Moa - the Moa was unstable on it's legs and when knocked over sideways, it could not easily get to its feet. So the Haast Eagle only had to grip it and roll it over before it could do a death delivering attack to the head or trunk. Then the small family could all fly in and get a feed. They did not have to carry it away, that is a bit far fetched. I believe that even moa bones found in caves around Waitomo indicate they fell in holes and became trapped. Even one or to of them have shown claw marks on certain bones attributed to the Haast Eagle having travelled to the North Island as well. There were definitely Moa in the North Island, perhaps a smaller bird than found in the swampy flat lands of the South Island. I also found some research on the NZ crocodile and other long lost birds and swamp animals and presented it here with many links in another forum... www.localweather.net.nz/smf/space-science-and-nature/the-mystery-of-nz's-crocodile-and-other-long-extinct-birds-fishes-frogs-etc/msg2198/#msg2198   This lake was 9 times the size (in area) of Lake Taupo - Lake Manuherikia - 5600sqkms... before the Alps were raised Trevor Worthy was originally from Masterton... Copied links and text here... www.nzgeographic.co.nz/issue-107/st-bathansAn interview on Radio NZ with Kathryn Ryan just recently : Audio from Thursday 24 November 2011 www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/20111124www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2503330/feature-guest-trevor-worthy.asx for the interview file – 37mins long. On their website they share some images of artist Thomas Simpson in the NZ Geographic magazine - IMAGES TO VIEW: www.nzgeographic.co.nz/issue-107/st-bathans in Issue 107 Jan - Feb 2011 Some of these images are shown on the Radio NZ website : www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/galleries/stbathans Plenty about NZ's natural history to keep one researching and reading for ages!!! Cheers |
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Post by mumbles on Aug 21, 2013 22:13:07 GMT 12
I find those two presenters very annoying. The programme would be good if they just shut up. It is actually on but I have the sound down. It is okay, but would be better if so much of the "drama" wasn't so obviously staged. Like recreating and gaining firsthand insights into those expeditions isn't dramatic enough or something. |
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Post by mumbles on Aug 21, 2013 22:16:10 GMT 12
Did you even read the thread Paul, it had strayed off into a 'pick on Dave as he doesn't know of any geography outside of Cambridge' bullshit topic. Frankly I'm getting pissed off with some of the "humour" focused toward me regarding Cambridge. To be fair, you do invite a little with some of your comments about other parts of the country. Even if tongue in cheek, sometimes the nuances fail to come across due to the inherent limitations of a forum format  In deference to the rest of the thread I'll leave it at that . |
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Post by mumbles on Aug 21, 2013 22:18:02 GMT 12
It is generally thought that the Haast eagle died out not long after the moa because the moa were their main prey. Having said that, if they lasted until European times, then I'm quite glad Charlie Douglas shot the last one, because an eagle that is capable of carrying off a grown man does not full me with joyous abandon. I was at the Currumbun Wildlife Park in South East Queensland 10 years ago and they have a sea eagle there. The sea eagle is quite a large and impressive bird and it was perched on a 4m post above me. I think it was probably about the size of a half grown Haast eagle. The talons on the sea eagle were impressive too. Is it wierd that I know "Harpagornis moorei" without even looking it up? What an awesome creature it must have been to watch. Might be a bit hazardous to backpackers though |
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In deference to the rest of the thread I'll leave it at that 