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Post by phil82 on Mar 28, 2013 8:37:24 GMT 12
The last hurrah...1970  |
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Post by ngatimozart on Mar 28, 2013 19:02:33 GMT 12
"The sun was brighter back in those days" You do talk some bollocks sometimes...  "Make mine a DB thanks" DB? That explains the talking bollocks... ;D Bollocks ? I am not so sure. Baz seems to be easily convinced they are shadows. As for the sun..... well of course the atmosphere has changed in the past 50 years. The sun seems nowhere near as strong now, we don't get burnt feet on the sand or roads like we used to. How about popping tar bubbles on the road also ? We also see the pollution in the number of visible stars, admittedly much of that can be attributed to light pollution. I was visiting an atmospheric test tower on Kirimati Island, the guys from some University in the States were saying they had gone to the middle of the Pacific to try and get the cleanest air possible. Is it the Carbon Dioxide levels that affect the heat or visible spectrum rays penetrating the various layers of the atmosphere ? You just have to look at the sky in Asia or Europe to see the difference from our skies. There would not be too many days a year in the UK for example where you would get such clear defined shadows as we see in that series of pics. I realise the skies in the UK were none too brilliant 40 years ago. As for the DB, - perhaps I would not be left drinking alone. Baz has changed bar leaners..... thanks mate. From what I understand of the literature, there is suggestion of an increase over time in the incidence of solar radiation reaching the ground. This takes into account the solar cycles, short term cloud cover variations, short term changes in albedo etc. The term solar radiation includes UV, IR and that which occurs in the visible light wavelengths. However it should be noted that an increase of particulate matter in the atmosphere can decrease the amount of solar radiation that reaches the surface, because the particles scatter the radiation. The amount of water vapour in the atnosphere is also a very important variable. The radiation budget is quite complicated and depends upon many interrelated factors. |
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Post by baronbeeza on Mar 28, 2013 19:25:16 GMT 12
I figured as much when I said it.
It was just a comment on the strength of shadows. NZ certainly gets some cracker ones compared to many other countries.
I knew the radiation was filtered out by pollution etc but also that the depletion of the Ozone layer allowed more UV, I think it is, through.
No science involved at all and I figured Dave would see all my flaws.
I need more practice in the art of bollockry...
So, for all the old fogies here.
Was the sun brighter back then or not ?
Sunglasses didn't work as well as now.
Nah, the sun is the 60's was definitely brighter.
You are a 'mature' citizen Paul, - where do you put your money ?
Is this going to cost me more beers ?
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Post by ngatimozart on Mar 29, 2013 16:56:59 GMT 12
I'd have to go through the sunshine hours records and look at what part of solar cycle it was in during 1960s to answer conclusively but off top of my head I am not sure, so I'd suggest keeping your beers close.
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Post by baronbeeza on Mar 29, 2013 17:07:10 GMT 12
Hey, I drank more beer 30 years ago. Isn't that proof enough ?
it was so hot in the early 60's that after work the workers used to make a bee line straight to the nearest pub. Some of them would almost break into a trot to get that first beer down. That is also a fact.
More proof ?
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Post by suthg on Mar 29, 2013 17:36:36 GMT 12
They had to head home at 6:30 though... although I expect they made up for it from 5pm to 6pm in the SWILL! Then they took their two flagons home in the box or suitcase...
Oops, Hic! I think we have been lead astray somewhat...
Back to the Canberras!
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Post by baronbeeza on Mar 29, 2013 18:47:04 GMT 12
Oops, yes. The Canberra thread.
Well at least we think it was a shadow cast by a Canberra that took us down that path.
In another thread we had a recent post about the sods of jobs. There was mention of three aircraft, - Strikemaster, Vampire and Canberra.
Anyone that has ever worked on a British aircraft will tell you a story about the 'quirks' or Britishness of it all.
I think it was the Hawk that first got anywhere near the maintenance manhours per flying hour ratio of a similar 'merican machine.
It seem the Canberra may have at least one or two of those difficult jobs. How very British !
Perhaps it was more of a pilot's aircraft. The only job I ever did on one was a minor skin patch on a tail in a training school.
What was an engine change like,- Pete and Shorty ?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 1, 2013 11:56:54 GMT 12
I was told on the weekend by Neville 'Shorty' Mines who was there on the Canberra squadron that the Vampires in that photo do NOT have shadow on them, it is black paint, and he says the Vampires are not RNZAF, they are RAF Mk. 11 night fighter Vampires that were based at Singapore at that time. He did mention their squadron buit I have forgotten the number, might have been No. 66 Squadron. He recalls the Vampires with black undersides, as we see here.
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Post by baronbeeza on Apr 1, 2013 12:55:59 GMT 12
Let me guess. That would have been after a few beers. How many did you need to buy to get that version of events ?
I still think my money is safe..
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 1, 2013 13:22:49 GMT 12
No we were sitting in the gold pass stand yesterday morning and he seemed pretty serious. Ask him yourself if you don't believe me.
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Post by saratoga on Apr 1, 2013 13:22:50 GMT 12
Even with beer goggles i can see they don't have black undersides.  |
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Post by baz62 on Apr 1, 2013 13:56:17 GMT 12
I cant believe we are still talking about this. They are shadows, copy the photo to your desktop and zoom in! Shorty might be right about black painted undersides on RAF Vampires but this aint them!  |
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Post by shorty on Apr 7, 2013 10:30:34 GMT 12
I never said black undersides! I mentioned that I reckoned they were NF two seaters and theat the "shadows" on top were camouflage scheme and that the other two were probably the squadrons T-Birds.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 7, 2013 12:20:32 GMT 12
OK, my mistake Shorty.
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Post by davidd on Apr 8, 2013 10:58:37 GMT 12
Just to throw another cat among the pigeons, my old Putnam's Aircraft of the RAF since 1918 by Owen Thetford has the Vampire NF.10 (the only N/F version to serve with the RAF, and this only came about because an Egyptian order fell foul of an export ban, resulting in the cancellation of this order) and the RAF deciding to take them over as interim night fighters to speed up the re-equipment of the night fighter squadrons in Fighter command (which were still equipped solely with Mosquitos). Apparently the RAF had chosen the Meteor NF.11 as its only jet-powered night fighter but deliveries were too slow, so the surplus Vampires were snapped up; this was in 1951. Also according to this book, "most" of these aircraft were withdrawn from the RAF N/F squadrons in 1954, and many went to the Indian Air Force, whilst a few were retained by the RAF to provide navigator pupils with jet experience, and nine went to 1 ANS at Topcliffe from 1957 to 59. So the employment of Vampire night fighters in Singapore by the RAF in the 1960s seems unlikely to me. All three RAF N/F squadrons (23, 25, 151) served only in the UK in 1951 -54 period, and to me these do not seem the sort of aircraft to make routine deployments from the UK to Singapore.
The aircraft in the photograph appear to me to all have the dayglo rear booms and tail surfaces typical of the RNZAF T.11s in the 1960s. Hope this does not end up in any unseemly blood letting!
David D
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Post by saratoga on Apr 8, 2013 17:37:40 GMT 12
sounds bit shady...  |
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Post by pjw4118 on May 8, 2013 17:48:06 GMT 12
After a months hush about THE SHADOW , Chub Roberts tells me that the bands are really shadows created by aircraft above. Next time they will be in colour !
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 8, 2013 17:56:56 GMT 12
Yeah we all knew that  |
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Post by suthg on Jul 20, 2013 23:40:05 GMT 12
Canberra PR9 XH134 is now at RIAT after flying across from a two year restoration programme by C2 Aviation at nearby Cotswold Airport in Kemble. The photographic reconnaissance type's retirement from use by the UK Royal Air Force was just 7 years ago. The plane in one guise or another, was in service from May 1951 to June 2006 ~ 55 years of service. I believe one or two US built planes (Martin B-57) are still performing a high altitude meteorological work for NASA today.  Restored Canberra PR9 makes air showwww.flightglobal.com/news/articles/riat-restored-canberra-pr9-makes-air-show-return-388510/Edited - the url link did not show... |
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Post by baz62 on Jul 21, 2013 9:04:33 GMT 12
Canberra PR9 XH134 is now at RIAT after flying across from a two year restoration programme by C2 Aviation at nearby Cotswold Airport in Kemble. The photographic reconnaissance type's retirement from use by the UK Royal Air Force was just 7 years ago. The plane in one guise or another, was in service from May 1951 to June 2006 ~ 55 years of service. I believe one or two US built planes (Martin B-57) are still performing a high altitude meteorological work for NASA today. Restored Canberra PR9 makes air showCorrect: www.usafe.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123328587 |
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