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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 4, 2013 16:09:46 GMT 12
What's the story here? This photo from the National Library site is captioned: "Crowd of unidentified people watching Vampire jet NZ5751 take off at Clyde Quay wharf, Wellington." Date: Oct 21st 1959 What were the circumstances of it being on the wharf and taking off there?? Who was the pilot?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 4, 2013 16:10:46 GMT 12
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Post by machpants on Dec 4, 2013 18:16:58 GMT 12
It will be a tight squeeze through that gate! And it is shut
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 4, 2013 18:23:12 GMT 12
These are Evening Post photos so if someone can check the newspaper for that date it might reveal all. I have my doubts it took off, but from the first shot they must have run the engine up? It would be interesting to know what is really going on.
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Post by baronbeeza on Dec 4, 2013 18:58:01 GMT 12
The Wednesday before the airport opening airshow.
I would be guessing it would be a noise making and attention getting machine to promote the weekend's activities.
They may have even barged it about hence it being on the wharf.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 4, 2013 21:29:33 GMT 12
An interesting theory, but barged from where, I wonder? Did Rongotai have a suitable place nearby to get the aircraft onto a barge? Seems like a huge effort for a small effect.
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Post by delticman on Dec 4, 2013 21:38:39 GMT 12
From Miramar Wharf
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Post by phil82 on Dec 5, 2013 12:45:56 GMT 12
I can't comment on the details, but having lived in Wellington for many years I can say with 100 per cent certainty that it DIDN'T take off from a wharf!
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Post by flyjoe180 on Dec 9, 2013 8:48:55 GMT 12
It's four days before the opening of Rongotai Airport. Engine runs after being offloaded from a ship perhaps? Searching the film archives to see if there is anything there.
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Post by davidd on Dec 9, 2013 12:40:06 GMT 12
One RNZAF aircraft that DID take off from a wharf (really!) was a Gloster Grebe, at Hobsonville in 1938 at about the time the type was retired. Pilot was F/L D M (Dave) Allan (which does not come as any surprise to me!) Apparently a restraining rope and an axe or some such was involved. If you have seen the sequence of a NZ Grebe taking off at Wigram in about 1930 (viewed directly from behind) you can see that this type did not normally have a very long take-off run. However a Vampire taking off from even a very long wharf hardly seems likely to me, and judging by the number of people present, SOMEBODY would have had a camera of some sort. David D
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Post by baronbeeza on Dec 9, 2013 13:09:57 GMT 12
Clyde Quay may still have been a Defence Establishment at that time. The buildings show their wartime heritage. It was converted to the Overseas Passenger terminal sometime later I believe. The Vampire may have been at 'take-off power' at some point during the exercise but I would think it would be securely chained down for that. I have seen an Airtrainer take-off from a back country road but that is something a little different. For one, only a handful of people witnessed it and they were all servicemen. Another may have been the risk factor .... the 'trainer did it with ease of course.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Dec 9, 2013 16:01:27 GMT 12
I have seen an Airtrainer take-off from a back country road but that is something a little different. For one, only a handful of people witnessed it and they were all servicemen. Another may have been the risk factor .... the 'trainer did it with ease of course. Then, there was Cessna 185 Ag-Carryall ZK-DPH, which was regularly seen in the carpark at the Te Aute Pub a few miles south of Hastings back in the 1970s. I saw it there with my own eyes on several occasions. The only place it could have landed and taken off again was on the adjacent SH2. Although I never stopped and went into the pub when I noticed ZK-DPH parked there, I definitely know who the culprit was....none other than ex-RNZAF Grumman Avenger pilot, Dick Beattie. I knew that particular aeroplane intimately, as I jumped out of it over Bridge Pa Aerodrome on numerous occasions.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 9, 2013 16:50:43 GMT 12
Very interesting story about the Grebe, David. I wish there was some footage about of Dave Allen flying, I have heard and read many stories and he seems to have been the Ray Hanna of his time, being such a low level expert and a dare devil in the air.
I never actually thought that a Vampire was capable of taking off from a wharf in Wellington but I thought this thread would generate some interesting feedback, and it has. I'd really love to know why the Vampire was there.
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Post by McFly on Dec 9, 2013 19:43:41 GMT 12
Well this is interesting. Vampire NZ5751 with lifting sling dated 21 Oct 1959 (same date as the wharf photo). (Photo RNZAF Museum) Negative Number: OhG9171~59 Caption: Lifting arrangement for Vampire NZ5751 at Royal New Zealand Air Force Station Ohakea. Further Information: Year of Image: 1959 Image Date Information: 21 October 1959 Format: Digital image
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Post by davidd on Dec 14, 2013 10:14:06 GMT 12
Dave H, That would be D M (Dave) ALLAN flying the Grebe, NOT Allen. David D
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Post by The Red Baron on Dec 14, 2013 10:44:32 GMT 12
In 1945 they landed and flew a Vampire off an aircraft carrier.It took off without a catapault,so I would think even though it most likely didn't,it would be well capable of flying off a reasonably short runway. Also I remember the opening of the new local supermarket in the late '60s,there was an Air Force Vampire in the car park,I think it was towed around by road by with its wings off.Unless it wasn't and my mind has completely gone.
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Post by baz62 on Dec 14, 2013 11:06:54 GMT 12
In 1945 they landed and flew a Vampire off an aircraft carrier.It took off without a catapault,so I would think even though it most likely didn't,it would be well capable of flying off a reasonably short runway. Also I remember the opening of the new local supermarket in the late '60s,there was an Air Force Vampire in the car park,I think it was towed around by road by with its wings off.Unless it wasn't and my mind has completely gone. Yes as long as there was a nice strong headwind. Wonder what the take-off performance figures are for a lightly loaded Vampire?
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Post by phil82 on Dec 14, 2013 11:44:57 GMT 12
Regardless of the take-off criteria, those wharves were pre-container days, and as such were littered with mooring bollards, rail tracks, and CRANES. I spent many a lunch break walking down there and there is no way a take-off would have been possible. An aircraft carrier is a very different proposition, and the fact that a Vampire could and did take off, into a stong head wind, bears no comparison to taking off from a wharf.
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Post by The Red Baron on Dec 14, 2013 11:56:12 GMT 12
Theres a strong head wind everyday in Wellington.....
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Post by baronbeeza on Dec 14, 2013 12:06:55 GMT 12
Yes as long as there was a nice strong headwind. Wonder what the take-off performance figures are for a lightly loaded Vampire? In this case we are talking wheels off, no obstacle clearance or whatever. Basically just the ground run and as you say with a little wind can give impressive figures. I have marked 100 metres out on a grass runway and had the Tomahawk operating off that comfortably. Similarly you have seen YouTube footage of Cubs and the likes using 20 metres. The carrier has the ability to poke it's nose into wind and then get up a head of steam. A Cub would be blown off the back off the deck. Even the Auster could have some fun operating off the back of the deck. The HMNZS Clyde Quay would possibly require a little assistance in getting the headwind down the deck, getting a bit of speed up would require an even greater amount of effort. We all saw the pic of the Vampire with the slings in place. We saw the aircraft on the quay and with the gates etc. My money is still on it having taken a quick barge trip across the harbour. In addition to being a big technical college the RNZAF also does much self promotion and advertising. I have been involved in taking Harvards into town for promotional events. Once at Wanganui and once in the ChCh square. It is just something they do.... I am confident the Vampire in Wellington would be a similar event.
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