haileyg
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 8
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Post by haileyg on Mar 25, 2014 22:35:44 GMT 12
Hi all,
I applied for the RNZAF early this year for Pilot and have recently completed and passed the initial aptitude / fitness tests and interview. I have been invited to the Officer Selection Board in Whenuapai at the end of April. From previous research I have found that there is limited information out there, and was looking for someone to give me any advice / details from any recent OSBs they had completed or heard about.
This is what I do know is involved: - A series of leadership/teamwork activities; being the delegated leader and another where no-one in your group is delegated leader - 5km, 20kg weighted march - Press-ups - Pool: Treading water for 15 minutes in overalls and boots / swimming lengths / pulling someone along as deadweight and keeping their head above water
I have a few specific questions: - What are the expectations for the physical tests? Eg times / number of press-ups / number of lengths - What is the typical dress code (what clothing should I bring just in case) - Are there any aptitude / mathematics / other written or oral tests involved? - Is there another interview? - Are there any other activities involved?
I'm quite excited but can't help thinking about the details; knowing these would help me relax a bit. Any specific or general information is much appreciated!
Hailey
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 25, 2014 23:14:10 GMT 12
Congratulations Hailey, and best of luck. I have moved this thread into the modern RNZAF section.
I never went through an officer selection, I was an other rank, so I cannot answer all these questions, but I'd guess the press ups will be reasonably frequent and I remember in my days they were usually in bursts of twenty at a time.
I am surprised your Recruiter has not advised you on the dress code, they normally would do so. I would advise that you should contact them on that and ask.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2014 23:40:50 GMT 12
I too applied for pilot this intake, despite testing very highly and interviewing well I was not selected for OSB on grounds of being too young and "inexperienced". I wish you the best of luck! From what I know there are panel interviews or the likes, where psychologists, officers and possibly a pilot will interview you. I believe psychometric is done during OSB too. The OFT as you mentioned is done as well, regarding the push ups and sit ups aim to do as many as you can, naturally. The top pass mark of F1 for males is 40 push ups and 40 sit ups. However I'm not sure on the benchmarks for females, possibly around 30? As you said there will be leadership activities where you'll get the chance to lead a group and at other times you'll just be a team member. It is important to remember they will assess you on your ability to work in a team as a team member too, so obviously respect the leadership of your leader at the time. Barnsey should be able to help you with a lot more information then I can give you, as he would of attended OSB. I must state that what I have said is what I've been told. Congratulations on making OSB and best of luck!
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Post by lesterpk on Mar 26, 2014 0:54:06 GMT 12
Haven't done OASB but saw plenty of people doing it, had people working for me who did it and done promotion courses with similar exercises. So I'm not an expert but you'll find most of what I say useful.
5km weighted march - time for this is around 48 minutes, I used to work on 13 minutes per lap (its 3 laps plus a few hundred metres extra). To do that you need to keep moving. Jog/stretch out on the downhills where you can, its helps you calf muscles. And dig it on on the uphills, it'll hurt a bit, just do it. The weight is evenly split between a vest and a hip belt, they are joined so keep the straps tight enough to take some of the hip weight on your shoulders, but not all. Do it up tight enough so it doesn't move around too much while you're running.
Press ups - if you're not practicing already start now, there is a video on the recruiting website showing you the standard. Train to it, dont take shortcuts. You'll need to do around 20 but if not I dont think its a huge deal, if you pass selection you'll have plenty of PT sessions to work on them at recruit course. You need to meet the standard by the end of that.
Pool - is slightly heated so its not a huge cold shock. If you haven't treaded water in overalls/boots before, find some and do a practice. Look up techniques on the net. Side stroke seemed easiest.
Leadership exercises - these will be a series of short 20 minute or so ones. Things like you'll be given 2 barrels and a plank to get your team across a river etc. They are looking to see how you work when leading, and how you support the leader when not. When leader ask all for opinions/ideas then as leader make a decision and own it. If its wrong take responsibility as its now your idea. If it works, great, if its going wrong call a halt and reassess, dont let others shout over you etc.
Dress code - mostly saw people in what I would call business attire. Men in trousers, long sleeve shirt/tie. Its a job interview at all times, don't come in jeans/t shirt. Female equivalent I guess would be tidy business/office wear. Obviously you'll need sports gear etc as well.
More interviews - yes I think so, some one on one and some in small group discussions. Read up and be aware of current events/world politics etc. Be prepared for 'interesting' moral questions. Along the lines of but not actually "you're ordered to bomb a convoy containing women and children in order to save the lives of your team, what would you do?".
And thats about the extent of my knowledge, hopefully someone else will be able to impart a little more. Les. Ex SSTECH 1994-2011
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Post by baronbeeza on Mar 26, 2014 9:31:43 GMT 12
I did one of those back in the day. Things have obviously changed .... a lot. My advice to guys that were asking then was to make sure you had some good clothes for the President's interview and at least one good book to read. I saw one pair of trousers front up in the final session at least 3 times. Many of the guys in my syndicate got through as well, about a half if I remember correctly.
I thought the original post was an excellent one for a first up effort from a new member here. If you continue that standard through all your communication and reports, essays etc then you are off to a flying start. Many guys can't get past textspeak and wonder why they never made the grade. The interview is for an Air Force Officer, the selection panel will be your workmates and colleagues in a few years time.
As for the physical demands and the exercises. I can't recall doing a sit-up or press-up in my time.... ever. That is not to say I didn't do a few, they must have been a complete non-event. We did have two mile, or 12 minute, run tests though. I can recall almost every second of them. The first was at the start of my initial training. We didn't bother with the one at the end as there was a general belief that we had not improved. Couldn't argue with that and we didn't bother with a formal graduation parade either, I think for much the same reasoning.
I recommended any number of guys to go before the selection panel and most got through. I think only one failed and he basically self destructed before even getting there. Ok, it was a while ago I know but I gave a schoolboy son of a workmate the briefing when he asked a similar question to yours. I have mentioned it here before but Jason is now a Senior Officer in the RAAF. At that time he had very little knowledge of the RNZAF but he had a very strong desire to be part of it and a pilot. His face obviously fitted.
The selection panel will be wanting to see if your face fits, if you can do the job, and if they would enjoy working with you. The rest is just a process to weed unsuitables out. Be yourself, be confident and listen and learn. Good luck with it.
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Post by phil on Mar 26, 2014 19:39:10 GMT 12
Here is a link with the OFT standards: www.defencecareers.mil.nz/air-force/joining-up/fitness-requirementsAs noted above, for the march, as long as you jog a bit and walk briskly it's just a boring 5km slog. The press-ups are a different matter, as the PTIs are very strict on technique. It really is a case of perfect practice makes perfect. There is no point in banging out 22 press-ups and having half of them discounted due to poor technique. Watch the videos in the link I posted. Currently the PTIs are picking on hips dropping as well as the usual failings of not going low enough (straight line from elbow to elbow). Like les I haven't done persel, but I have done various promotion courses with leadership exercises and assesments. The advice I can give regarding the leadership exercises is when it is your turn to be led by someone else, support the leader. Don't try and take over or talk over the top of them. If you can see a better way of achieving the goal, suggest it to the leader, but once they've made their decision support it, even if you think it is wrong. You are not the only person on the selection course and they want to see how you work in a team as well as how you can lead it, so don't try and be the leader all the time. Save that for when it is your turn. When it is your turn, get input and listen to suggestions from your team when formulating your plan, but remember it is your plan, involve the team but make the decisions, be confident about it and communicate the plan well to your team. When leading make sure you take the time to stand back and oversee the whole activity so you can identify areas that are working well and areas that are not. While it's ok to get in there and help (and with a small team you often need to), don't lose sight of the overall activity. As you move through the activity evaluate your plan and be prepared to identify when something is clearly not working and step in and change it if you need to. You will have to take part in group discussions, which will be observed. Read up on current affairs and the roles and outputs of the RNZAF and NZDF. Hopefully this is of some help to you, and good luck.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 26, 2014 22:25:01 GMT 12
I seem to recall the WAAF's had different press up technique from the blokes, with knees on the floor, is that still the case?
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haileyg
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 8
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Post by haileyg on Mar 27, 2014 9:12:16 GMT 12
Thank you everyone for your advice and support. I really appreciate this, I have so much information to help me on my way!
I hope I can use this information and my own experiences to help someone else out in the future.
Hailey
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 27, 2014 10:06:12 GMT 12
Best of luck Hailey, and please come back and keep us informed of how it went, and when/if you get through to actual pilot training it would be great if you could post about your experiences, maybe a diary type experience, here on the forum. I suggest this because I suspect pilots being selected now may well be on either the last Airtrainer course or the first Beech Texan course, so it will be worth recording.
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Post by phil on Mar 27, 2014 17:05:54 GMT 12
I seem to recall the WAAF's had different press up technique from the blokes, with knees on the floor, is that still the case? No.
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Post by spongebob206 on Mar 27, 2014 17:27:19 GMT 12
Go Girl Well done Hailey Keep up the hard work. Never look back and follow your dream Never take anything as easy, keep pushing, push yourself to the limit and you will make it. Go go go Look forward to the Post..... I have my Wings
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haileyg
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 8
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Post by haileyg on Mar 31, 2014 7:17:11 GMT 12
Best of luck Hailey, and please come back and keep us informed of how it went, and when/if you get through to actual pilot training it would be great if you could post about your experiences, maybe a diary type experience, here on the forum. I suggest this because I suspect pilots being selected now may well be on either the last Airtrainer course or the first Beech Texan course, so it will be worth recording. I will post an update here of how it went at the start of May. That's a great idea - Hoping all goes well, I will definitely post about my training experiences!
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haileyg
Leading Aircraftman
Posts: 8
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Post by haileyg on Mar 31, 2014 7:19:22 GMT 12
Go Girl Well done Hailey Keep up the hard work. Never look back and follow your dream Never take anything as easy, keep pushing, push yourself to the limit and you will make it. Go go go Look forward to the Post..... I have my Wings Thank you for the support! Can't wait to get to the OASB
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Post by ljgreenaway on Mar 31, 2014 16:29:30 GMT 12
Hi Hailey
Stumbled on the post researching the OASB! I am also attending in April for AWO.
I have a few questions and if someone on the forum could shed light on them it would be much appreciated.
1. Should I bring hiking boots for the 5km march?
2. It is mentioned the overalls are provided for 'outdoor activities' will we be able to change into sports wear or do we simply wear them over the clothes from early i.e our formal clothing?
3. Any advice regarding aircrew swimming test? Thanks, Laura
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Post by phil on Mar 31, 2014 16:55:06 GMT 12
I am fairly certain you will complete the 5km march in PT gear. A very few units require personnel to complete it in DPMs and boots, but since you will have neither I can't see how they could administer the test in anything other than PT kit. I guess you could choose to wear hiking boots if you wish, but most of us do it in running shoes. It is conducted on road/footpath, not cross country. If in doubt, ask the recruiters.
I'll leave the other questions to others to answer, but again I am fairly certain you have the opportunity to change into overalls, and are not required to wear them over formal clothing. The activities you have to carry out are a little bit strenuous (a bit of carrying items like heavy boxes, crawling, balancing on planks etc) so wearing tidy and restrictive clothing, even under overalls will hardly be practical.
Again, if in doubt, ask.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 31, 2014 22:10:31 GMT 12
"If you are offered another trade, either aircrew or not, seriously consider it, there are goods things about all parts of the Air Force."
Mike is right. When I did my recruit course a staggering 3/4 of the guys in my flight who were there to become ground engineering trades had actually been through the PERSEL pilot selection process, but had not qualified, and were then offered alternate trades. And yes, a number of them later remustered to become members of the aircrew trades.
Welcome Laura. Out of interest are you any relation to the wartime pilot Arthur Beale Greenaway?
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Post by ljgreenaway on Apr 2, 2014 16:06:59 GMT 12
Hello Everyone,
Many Thanks for the helpful and friendly advice. Unfortunately I am not familiar with a Mr Arthur Beale Greenaway. However I come from a large family and my Surname is rather uncommon, so who knows...
In regards to my previous questions on the forum, I also consulted my candidate co-ordinator who told me:
Hiking Boots are not required he suggested running shoes would be better for the march
The swim test is not timed
16 press-ups to complete and the march has to be done in 46mins
I will change in PT gear before overalls.
I am pleased by these outcomes and will keep the forum updated, off how things plan out!
Thanks again, Laura
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 2, 2014 16:10:50 GMT 12
Thanks Laura. It all sounds like a doddle - yeah, right
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Post by haughtney1 on Apr 2, 2014 16:19:39 GMT 12
Interesting reading! I went through the process 21 years ago…..I can't really add to the database of info I'm sad to say as time has dimmed my memory of the experience, but suffice to say successful or otherwise, the experience will teach you as much about yourself as it will show the selection team. Most importantly, be yourself and enjoy it.
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Post by phil on Apr 2, 2014 16:28:59 GMT 12
I would suggest completing the press ups and march to F1 standard, being 22 press ups and the march in under 44.30. F2 is of course acceptable (16 press ups and 46.30) but I would think gaining the higher standard would be better.
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