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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Aug 20, 2014 22:47:22 GMT 12
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Post by kiwibeavers on Aug 23, 2014 22:00:52 GMT 12
Run by an image thief Graeme Smith.
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Post by avagwhiz on Aug 30, 2014 12:11:05 GMT 12
Dave I notice that a photo of Agricola BXO that is on your Agricultural Aviation blog-Agricultural Aircraft-The Auster Agricola Page1-BXO clearly marked
Keith Morris photo Peter Lewis collection has now appeared on the Crop Dusters and Topdressers facebook group.It is clearly the same shot.
Obviously taken from your site.Anything you can do about this?
I am loathe to start posting any of my photos if they are going to be nicked from here.
Peter has a number of mine posted and marked already on your site with my approval but I am loathe to post any more if they get reproduced elswhere?
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Post by kiwibeavers on Aug 30, 2014 13:08:51 GMT 12
There are a heap of photos taken from my site without permission on the Crop Dusters Facebook page. I have messaged Graeme Smith as he has blocked me accessing the page. I have had no response. I have asked a friend to message him with no response. Facebook have removed 4 photos but I don't know if any more are still there.
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Post by Peter Lewis on Aug 30, 2014 13:26:40 GMT 12
Yes it is an on-going problem John.
Anything on the internet can and probably will be copied - photos, artwork, music, video, text files or software.
That is now the new reality.
No, there is nothing that Dave or anyone else here can do to stop it.
So what do we do about it?
Hide everything away from the light of day and deprive yourself and others from the pleasure of sharing?
Or just accept that is what some people will do and adjust to it. As music-makers have had to accept, after much fuss and litigation.
For myself, I brand every image I upload, but I have even come across some where that marking has been cut off.
Marcus Bridle used to put his copyright notice right slap bang in the middle of the photo so it could not be trimmed, but I personally have not gone that far.
Yes I would like to see your photos here John.
Yes it is probable that someone will reproduce them elsewhere.
But that is not actually going to ruin your life.
(Thanks for the personal message about this, as well).
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Post by Dave Homewood on Aug 30, 2014 17:34:42 GMT 12
Well put Peter. This is the first I have read this thread, and all his is news to me. But I don't think there is anything I can do at all I'm afraid. I haven't a clue who Graeme Smith is either so I don't even know if he's a member here.
But it would be a shame if you and others were to decide not to post photos here just in case they might end up elsewhere. Everyone is the poorer for it if people stopped posting photos here.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Aug 30, 2014 18:54:03 GMT 12
I first became aware of that group when a Wellington workmate sent me a link by email to a photograph that had been “shared” to a Facebook group where train enthusiasts were posting photographs. The photo in question is one that was taken by a professional photographer called Stephen Jones for a Eastland Images calendar way back in the early-1980s, showing a Fieldair DC-3 waiting for a freight train to pass over the runway at Gisborne Airport. I have had a large, framed copy of that photograph for decades and it currently is on the wall of the train crew room at Masterton railway station, and my workmate knew I was one of the locomotive crew members on the train in the photo. I clicked on the link, which took me to the Facebook group, then clicked on the image which took it back to the source at the “Crop Dusters and Topdressers” Facebook group, which I then joined so I could post a comment to the photo posting giving some background information about the photograph in answer to questions which had been posted about it. I also posted comments in reply to a couple of other photographs of Fieldair aeroplanes at Gisborne Airport. A few days after that, I started this thread to post a link to the Crop Dusters and Topdressers group and never thought any more about it.
A couple of days ago, I was catching up on a big backlog of emails and found one which was an automatic notification from Crop Dusters and Topdressers stating that it had been changed from an open Public group to a closed Private group. I went to the group (which I hadn't visited for a few weeks) and posted a query as to why the status of the group had been changed. The following day I received an automatic email notification of a reply to my query from Graeme Smith claiming that he changed the status of the group because members had suggested it. I guess after reading subsequent posts in this thread, he may have an ulterior motive for hiding what is in the group. I'm not really an active member in there....I only joined it to comment on that photograph of Stephen Jones' and don't go in there all that often as most of what is posted isn't really of any great interest to me.
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Post by kiwibeavers on Aug 30, 2014 19:50:18 GMT 12
I feel he has an ulterior motive because before I was blocked, I asked him where he got all his photos from. He said that 90% were off the Internet. I asked him to remove photos taken from my site, next thing I was blocked. There were heaps of photos from Peter, Marcus and others on this forum that I saw on his page also. I have sent him messages with no response.
I have closed my site for the meantime and am considering what to do with it. This is not the only incident regarding photos taken from my site and I find it an abuse of my hard work.
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Post by thomarse on Aug 31, 2014 8:19:17 GMT 12
KTJ, as far as I know the rationale for "closing" the group is that you then can't "share" anything any further - it comes up as "This image can't be displayed" if shared outside the group.
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Post by htbrst on Aug 31, 2014 8:22:01 GMT 12
Rather than relying on copyright, consider putting them online with a 'license for use'. While it won't stop people putting them on other sites you do have a much firmer legal standing in getting the content removed. In saying that I mostly deal with publications, where it is easy to stamp on a license logo somewhere inconspicuous, as opposed to a photo  I have a large NZ publication archive going live in the next week or two that is using a well defined creative commons license, creativecommons.org.nz/licences/licences-explained/Creative commons licenses typically allow people to share the content though which wouldn't help if you were rigidly wanting it to go anywhere else but it does require attribution when shared. The archive going live next week is using the licence below: |
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Post by chinapilot on Aug 31, 2014 9:09:36 GMT 12
The FB page has many other photos posted by other luminaries,past and present, in the industry as well - most of them fascinating and much more interesting than the standard 'side view and registration'.
GS ( I don't know him) does appear to use other sites for photos but what I fail to understand is why not have these out there?
We are talking about an extremely limited interest here so instead of hoarding these photos in a box why not have them on FB or a website?
if you post them on the internet and then get upset because they are lifted just don't post them, but then the few that are interested then miss out. Many people do spend a lot of time and effort collecting them but what's the point of that if you just want to sit by yourself and sift through them.
I have many aviation photos from PNG and the South Pacific and I post them on many sites as I know a few people enjoy seeing them and if they get posted elsewhere I'm happy as these old photos need to be viewed. Life's too short to worry about it...
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Post by The Red Baron on Aug 31, 2014 9:57:10 GMT 12
Completely agree.
Why not share with like minded individuals and preserve the images for future generations to see rather than hiding them away just to stroke your own ego.The pictures are monertarily worthless,no one is stealing the crown jewels by sharing.
Every ag photo I have is on the net and its quite amusing where you find them when your searching the topic of ag planes.
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Post by thomarse on Aug 31, 2014 12:05:47 GMT 12
Agree wholeheartedly Chinapilot, but I also fully understand our mate John's position where he has thousands of unpublished photos that we would dearly love to see.
I can put forward another issue - I have a load of photos bought off TradeMe for a forthcoming project - not a single one is accredited to anyone. I suspect some are Dakman's, and I believe some may be from the collection of the late Des White. I'd be only too happy to accredit them to whomsoever, but how am I supposed to find who that whomsoever is?
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Post by craig on Aug 31, 2014 12:14:26 GMT 12
Some do sell photos and seem to get quite good money (I myself have bought the odd ag aircraft shot on TM). I guess the difference is one is an original photo and the other a digital copy.
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Post by thomarse on Aug 31, 2014 15:04:17 GMT 12
True, Craig, but with several of the shots I've bought there have been further copies appear on TM later.... or perhaps I'd bought an "extra". Who knows?
Marcus, if you're watching PM me as I think you and I chased the same ones once (C185) and I'm more than happy to share with you.
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Post by kiwibeavers on Aug 31, 2014 17:48:48 GMT 12
My disclaimer states that if you want to use or copy images, please ask. The amount of time and money getting and converting slides, negatives and prints to digital deserves this I feel. No problem if you ask but I find it abusive to just "lift" them and post them willy nilly all over the net. Surely a little credit is not too much to ask.
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Post by dakman on Sept 3, 2014 21:23:36 GMT 12
Hi Thomarse.thanks for your thoughts .I agree if you post images ,it.s likely they will appear on another site .
Looked at the new ag aviation site , and recognised many photographs.my own as well .Am ok about sharing and happy to help other forum members .Selling other people.s work on trade me. grates a bit but sh'''t happen.s
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Post by thomarse on Sept 6, 2014 20:33:29 GMT 12
Dakman, if we can get together I'm happy to show you what I've got and of course to credit you when I use them.
One I know is yours 'cos it's got written on the back "185 ZK CHK Dannevirke and your initials. However, I bought exactly the same photo off TradeMe and this one has a much more lengthy description on the back.
Perhaps someone could enlighten me here - The writing is very neat and says:
CESSNA 185
ZK - CHK
C/N 185-0755 TOPDRESSER
@ DANNEVIRKE - 1964
the down at the bottom:
3832 20 1810 (this stamped with a numbering stamp)
Anyone recognise that format?
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Post by dakman on Sept 7, 2014 18:14:59 GMT 12
Thomarse . a thought here ,I recall swapping photo.s as many of us did .
D D Kelly from Invercargil was a regular correspondant. He always
noted in pencil on his swap prints. Day date location .The aircraft
c/n also .His prints were always on double weight paper
but the inked numbers on your print .?not on any prints from
him .I received . Hope some one out there knows , .
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Post by kiwi172 on Sept 7, 2014 20:39:34 GMT 12
Have you seen the Airsoc site ? airsoc.com/search/search/search/ZK-/t/g/page/1They not only borrow the photographs but use the covering blurb as well.(and don't even correct our spelling mistakes). They take stuff from the nzcivair, the mrcaviation, flyinggeek and aviationshotzphotgraphy sites often. I sent them an email about using our material - but received no reply. But at least now they are including the site links. I have got over my initial angst. It is at least getting NZ aviation to others out there on the other side of the world who would probably not have found our sites otherwise. As has been mentioned- what's the point of having all these gems hidden in shoe boxes under your bed. When they clean out after you kick the bucket they will all probably end up in a big skip and be lost for ever. So get them out there. Cheers Kiwi172 |
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