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Post by errolmartyn on Dec 12, 2014 9:42:27 GMT 12
Apparently the new MoD got a look at a RAAF C17 and decided we needed some. Probably finally found an aircraft he could fit in. GB was once reported as having wittily observed that although it has been said that no man is an island he could understand if some might make an exception in his case! Errol
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Post by beagle on Dec 12, 2014 10:01:47 GMT 12
So anybody here drinking buddies with any of the project team. An A400 order must have been looking really good till all this C17 business popped up.
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Post by suthg on Dec 12, 2014 10:39:10 GMT 12
Would they be second hand C17's or brand new? The extra two may be used units, ie far cheaper than new options.
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Post by delticman on Dec 12, 2014 11:40:16 GMT 12
Have a read of Wikipedia's C17 page. The RNZAF do need an arrangement with someone, mainly to transport the new helicopters.
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Post by ErrolC on Dec 12, 2014 12:43:29 GMT 12
Would they be second hand C17's or brand new? The extra two may be used units, ie far cheaper than new options. The last few on the production line were built on spec, with no confirmed buyers. I'm not aware of anyone talking about selling any they have bought. Sent from my D5503 using proboards
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Post by delticman on Dec 12, 2014 12:52:05 GMT 12
There must be some good deals one, pay for two and get the third one free (for spares).
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Post by beagle on Dec 12, 2014 13:23:24 GMT 12
haha yeah right would be brand spanking new there are 15 white tails, (unsold) 2 of which will most probably be bought from the RAAF and India had 4 options as well they haven't execised.
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Post by exkiwiforces on Dec 12, 2014 17:00:25 GMT 12
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Post by ErrolC on Dec 12, 2014 17:08:45 GMT 12
Which segment? That link just goes to a page with lots of audio clips.
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Post by nige on Dec 12, 2014 17:13:03 GMT 12
Check out the "Friday" 4pm and 5pm news bulletins.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 12, 2014 17:21:12 GMT 12
Whooo! A quarter of a billion dollars. Well worth the money though!
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Post by ErrolC on Dec 12, 2014 17:37:47 GMT 12
Right, so the Defence Minister has asked for price and availability information on C-17s. Here is an example announcement from the Aussies back in 2011 www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO1103/S00039/c-17a-globemaster-iii-letter-of-request.htmFrom the language, I'm guessing that the same mechanism is being used. Anyone know when A400M's would be available? I get the feeling that some Euro countries would be happy to give up their slots/on-sell their orders before delivery.
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Post by beagle on Dec 12, 2014 17:49:03 GMT 12
Pretty sure Germany were looking at delaying their first 10
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Post by beagle on Dec 12, 2014 18:02:36 GMT 12
so yes, just listened to it too. 250 mill each, someone at the news desk must have got that off Wikipedia etc as if that would not be the price. nothing regards any deal with aussies either. The words as replacements for the 5 Vietnam era Hercules. Cannot see replacement 1 for 1. so a waiting game now.
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chis73
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 85
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Post by chis73 on Dec 12, 2014 18:57:00 GMT 12
I suspect a C-17 price would be substantially north of NZD 250 mil per aircraft. The Aussies paid AUD 260 mil in 2011 for their 5th C-17, and AUD 280 mil for the 6th in 2012. Those prices probably don't include much in the way of support or training equipment either (as that would already have been paid for). Australia also has a free trade agreement with the US and most-favoured nation status under the US FMS system. I doubt the US would do the same price for us. Demand for these aircraft also seems to be reasonably high. So we're talking NZD 300 mil plus per airframe at least.
I can't see the C-17 as a replacement for the Herc (there are lots of islands in the Pacific at which you can land a Herc, how many will take a C-17? Similarly a smaller aircraft than the Herc might not have the legs to get there with a useful load). As a supplement to a future Herc or as a replacement for the 757s sounds more feasible.
At the above estimated price I suspect we could afford perhaps just two C-17. If one is committed to Antarctic support during the summer, then there may be just one available, and that will need maintenance. How often will we have need of a C-17 sized aircraft? I think we would struggle to fill it (just how many LAVs have we sent overseas on operations in the last 10 years - three?). Unless we buy something that is too big for an A400M (for example a Merlin helicopter), then there isn't a lot of justification for the C-17. For the same money you could buy a useful number of A400M (3 or more). Why no RFI for the A400M or C-2?
As an aside, it looks like the dark-horse in this race, the Kawasaki C-2 has dropped behind again: Flight testing delayed at least 2 more years due to structural problems.
Is this another example of trying to make it look like you're doing something when you're not really doing anything? The initial RFI for the Endeavour replacement comes to mind.
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Post by Barnsey on Dec 12, 2014 19:38:11 GMT 12
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Post by beagle on Dec 12, 2014 19:40:20 GMT 12
A November 12 US Defense Security Cooperation Agency notification has revealed Australia has formally requested “up to four” more Boeing C-17A Globemaster II airlifters from the US government.
The notification states that up to four C-17s and associated equipment, parts and logistical support have been requested for an estimated US$1.609bn (A$1.85bn).
The extra equipment includes 19 P&W F117-PW-100 engines, four AN/AAQ-24V Large Aircraft Infrared Countermeasures (LAIRCM) sets, and various other electronic warfare, communications and navigation systems.
It also includes unspecified spare and repair parts, supply and test equipment, training and training equipment, technical documentation, logistics, and technical support services.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Dec 12, 2014 19:48:55 GMT 12
This is a lot more ambitious than the PAC750XL's that Wayne Mapp was looking at buying for the RNZAF's transport fleet.
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Post by saratoga on Dec 12, 2014 20:00:31 GMT 12
C17 production is ceasing next year, maybe its a 'going out of business' sale?
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Post by beagle on Dec 12, 2014 20:07:09 GMT 12
I don't think it will be at sale prices as a few operators other than aussie and even others like us who are looking at airlift replacement are going, this will be our last and only chance to get them if we really want them. plus when you look at the price, Boeing doesn't include engines etc
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