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Post by exkiwiforces on Jun 18, 2015 19:45:50 GMT 12
Found this on Janes this morning: If you read the last para you would see the remaining five would go to existing C17 customers. So no RNZAF C17 in my books, but a little bird did tell me a couple of days ago Airbus is firming up and the by sounds of it a bulk buy of at least a doz aircraft with some options added in. The rumour on the street does like the Boeings are going because the lack of utility and it will cheaper to lease wide body jets to the troop, VIP and standard freight Flights etc anyway enjoy the read.
"Boeing executives expect to clear the remaining five Boeing C-17A Globemaster IIIC-17A Globemaster III aircraft by the fourth quarter, IHS Jane's has been told. Speaking to journalists on 14 June, Boeing Defence, Space & Security vice-president for business development and strategy Chris Raymond said that of the eight aircraft currently in production, one has been sold to an undisclosed customer and two to AustraliaAustralia. Of the remaining five aircraft, Raymond said that the company was "in discussions with various countries on the remaining aircraft". Raymond added that the discussions were not for all five aircraft. "Our assessment a few years ago for what we saw in terms of international strategic airlift was pretty correct, and as a result we're very confident we're going to get those sold," he said. Jeff Kohler, Boeing Defence, Space & Security vice-president for international business development added that the company expects to sell the remaining aircraft by the fourth quarter. Boeing began assembly of the final C-17 in February, with the final aircraft expected to be completed in the coming months. Following delivery of the final aircraft, the company's production facility in Long Beach, California, will close."
COMMENT The comments regarding potential multiple buyers for the remaining aircraft indicate that it is likely that the five remaining platforms will be sold to existing customers. A number of countries, such as AustraliaAustralia, the United Arab EmiratesUnited Arab Emirates, and QatarQatar, have found the C-17 to be extremely well-fitted to their expanding strategic airlift requirements, particularly in the field of humanitarian and disaster relief (HADR). HADR is becoming an increasingly important area of operations for a number of countries, as they seek to improve their presence internationally.
Jane's Defence Weekly
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Post by vulcan29 on Jun 18, 2015 19:46:40 GMT 12
Don,t write off are RNZAF purchase yet. 279 Produced - USA 223 - Australia 8 - Canada 5 - India 10 - Kuwait 2 - Qatar 8 - Nato 3 - UAE 8 - UK 8 - Crashed 1 Total 276 - 3 I was told it was a done deal we a getting them to supplement the C-130h not replace them.
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Post by gibbo on Jun 18, 2015 20:14:13 GMT 12
Don,t write off are RNZAF purchase yet. 279 Produced - USA 223 - Australia 8 - Canada 5 - India 10 - Kuwait 2 - Qatar 8 - Nato 3 - UAE 8 - UK 8 - Crashed 1 Total 276 - 3 I was told it was a done deal we a getting them to supplement the C-130h not replace them. Interesting, you were told by who that it was a done deal... what's your source?
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Post by No longer identifiable on Jun 18, 2015 21:02:52 GMT 12
One positive to take from Boeing selling the remaining C17s is that this thread can finally die, even though I’ve enjoyed following it.
More knowledgeable heads on this thread have already pointed out that the C17 is too large for our needs, the C130s still have a few years in them yet, and that we are almost broke so couldn’t afford them anyway.
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Post by vulcan29 on Jun 18, 2015 21:52:40 GMT 12
They are to be based at Ohakea, 2 of them. Form are air force source.
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atgv
Flight Sergeant
Posts: 29
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Post by atgv on Jun 18, 2015 22:38:46 GMT 12
Heard directly from a very senior figure at HQJFNZ that they were not keen on C-17s. Said person was with Gerry when he went to Iraq.
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Post by jimit on Jun 19, 2015 9:40:55 GMT 12
Just for notice. A400M and C-295W could be a wonderful assets about airlift purposes, but C-295 cannot replace P-3K2 as well. The only options to keep same performance are P-8, P-1, SC-130J, Boeing MSA, or unmanned MQ-4c Triton ( without ASW capabilities). Airbus turboprop is a wonderful plane, good value of cost/ benefits but the limits are clear... Good for EEZ only.
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TSR2
Leading Aircraftman
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Post by TSR2 on Jun 19, 2015 14:08:42 GMT 12
Could we re-engine the C-130, am guessing the airframe must be sound considering the amount of money spent on it. and get the A400M. Use the C-130s as a supplement to the A400M.
Someone else will buy our C-130s and use them for another 20 years anyway.
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Post by ZacYates on Jun 19, 2015 14:55:00 GMT 12
Form are air force source. This thread has often boggled my mind, but could you please translate?
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Post by exkiwiforces on Jun 19, 2015 17:19:18 GMT 12
I'll add some more fuel to fire. Richard Harman wrote this yesterday in Politik website and by the way this guy has a nose for the odd scoop around the Beehive. It almost confirms in what a lot of people here and else way the C17 is going to be a no go and if it was a goer then big Gerry would have got it signed by now. politik.co.nz/en/content/51/288/NZ-ANTARCTIC-FLIGHTS-ON-ICE.htmI hope they are not looking any at second hand USAF C17's because they have high hrs already and have been flog like a dead horse according to a C17 crew chief I was speaking too this week at work.
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Post by beagle on Jun 19, 2015 17:30:19 GMT 12
Could we re-engine the C-130, am guessing the airframe must be sound considering the amount of money spent on it. and get the A400M. Use the C-130s as a supplement to the A400M. Someone else will buy our C-130s and use them for another 20 years anyway. If everything is true and there is only qty 1 C17 left, and what someone said about leasing some of the USAF stock, then we can forget everything about future use with C17. So now it is up to the project committee to put everything together and finalise what we really need and put it to cabinet. I think with Airbus looking at buying Safe Air, then they must have been thinking for quite a while that the C17 was not really going to be purchased and they were front runners. They probably are now and with the airlift project looking at being completed before the end of the year, proposals etc and then confirmation would not be till 3-4 months into next year. So that would mean an in service date of probably 2019, with the C130 continuing till about 2022 till the A400 gets FOC. So also at the same time there would be an order in for some smaller aircraft like the C295 and maybe also C235. These would replace the C130 in the non strategic role around NZ and the pacific. So my numbers would be like 4 x A400 and 6 C295. As I have said before, ould the C235 be too big for the current role the B200 performs.
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Post by haughtney1 on Jun 19, 2015 17:42:41 GMT 12
If it was me, I'd replace like for like, go for the C130J, which can be adapted for the SAR role (the US coast guard does). I don't believe there is a pressing ASW threat, so once the P3's are pensioned off, something like a multi mission Dash 8 of similar (they could parts share with Air NZ) and perhaps BBJ2 or Global express as the countries exec transport or flag bearer. All this talk about the 757's being useful in times of emergencies for relief missions misses the point that there is a lot of freight uplift available in the private market...the hard outsized stuff will never go on it...so it's either going on a C130 anyway, or an Ozzie C17 (which we don't need) I'd never buy ANYTHING for Airbus that didn't have at least 10 years in service history behind it, they produce without doubt some of the most over complicated bits of kit that never seem to fully mature.....they must be learning from the pentagons running of the F35 programme. Unlike civvy street where you can adjust customer expectation, in the military you need your equipment to do what it says on the tin...the A400 isn't even close to that maturity yet.
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Post by gibbo on Jun 19, 2015 18:00:22 GMT 12
Form are air force source. This thread has often boggled my mind, but could you please translate? Now look firstly no disrepect to any service members etc, but merely an observation encountered a few times over the years I've attended airshows or Navy open days. I might only be a civvy but there's been occasions when chatting to some of those 'sources' at public displays that I have found them to be quite uninformed & in a couple cases I even corrected their view of a specific type, or project. My point being, as others are interested in, just how well informed was that 'airforce source' Vulcan29?
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Post by vulcan29 on Jun 19, 2015 18:41:45 GMT 12
Also heard it from the Army (Linton), simple maths will tell you there a still three, from the amount made on the boeing site. Gerry said they are still in negotiations. I would think we being in the club would give us special privileges, and in theory give Australia 10 C17s. They will be hangared where the UH-iHs are stored now. Lets just wait and see, to much about poverty at the moment on the news. Antarctica 757 problems are good start!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Jun 19, 2015 18:45:53 GMT 12
You are correct Gibbo, the military gossip and rumour system is always churning out new theories and ideas and rumours about things that never come to fruition. I remember it well when I was in and it was the same back in WWII when the RNZAF commonlys warmed with rumours that proved well wide of the truth - back then they called rumours "craptograms".
I recall other purchase rumours right here on the forum that came from "good sources" in the RNZAF - such as the impending purchase of a C-130B for use in training a few years ago... and also the purchase of three or more PAC750XL's (rumour confirmed by a PAC employee I know too, with detail such as the door gun mounts, etc being planned)... Don't believe everything you hear. And don't forget rumour and speculation is against the rules of the forum.
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Post by baronbeeza on Jun 19, 2015 18:58:59 GMT 12
Simple maths, h@ll English would be a good start. In my day when we referred to Defence sources we assumed it was the barman at the Officers' Mess or someone similar that may have actually heard a discussion. Judging by some of the comments we are seeing on the various blogs it now seems going to High School with the son of a serviceman is good enough.
A multi-million dollar purchase is going to be conducted with some confidentiality. Most of the negotiating team will be senior officers or political appointees and they will be giving little away. Did the Texan deal seem at all quick from announcement to delivery ?
I have no idea how many pages that thread got to but 24 here so far and opinion seems as divided as ever. Rule 1. Don't believe all you read in the media. Rule 2. Internet blogs are no better...
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Post by isc on Jun 19, 2015 20:51:58 GMT 12
When I visited the C130 rebuild at Woodborne last year, I asked whether there had been thought of up dating the engines to those on the C130J, they said yes, but the govt said NO, there would actually be very little(a few million I suppose)price difference if you factor in the cost of overhaul of the old engines and props. see TSR2 above. The C130H that comes out of Woodbourne will be a better aircraft than the ones that went in as far as the airframes go, and the new instrumentation will bring them ino the 21st century. isc
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Post by kiwirob on Jun 20, 2015 5:25:07 GMT 12
Also heard it from the Army (Linton), simple maths will tell you there a still three, from the amount made on the boeing site. Gerry said they are still in negotiations. I would think we being in the club would give us special privileges, and in theory give Australia 10 C17s. They will be hangared where the UH-iHs are stored now. Lets just wait and see, to much about poverty at the moment on the news. Antarctica 757 problems are good start! Depends really, how good is you maths? Australia 2 Canada 1 UAE 2 Qatar 4 Total 9 10 white tails - 9 sold = 1 left. Hows that for simple maths?
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Post by vulcan29 on Jun 20, 2015 8:22:19 GMT 12
United Arad Emirates were a order placed before the white tails, not in the 10.
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Post by gibbo on Jun 20, 2015 12:41:12 GMT 12
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