|
Post by Barnsey on Dec 12, 2014 20:07:39 GMT 12
I think it's more: "kicking the tyres at the Ferrari dealership knowing that you don't have a chance of affording the sticker price, when everyone involved knows you should be next door at the Toyota dealership (while your 1964 Chevvy pickup with the new AM/FM/CD radio waits broken down out front)"!
|
|
|
Post by isc on Dec 12, 2014 21:54:56 GMT 12
From what I'v read of the A-400, I think I'd rather upgrade the Hercs to C130J, maybe not even the J-30 which is 15 ft longer just to keep weight down for landing on strips up the Pacific. isc
|
|
sfb
Sergeant
Posts: 14
|
Post by sfb on Dec 13, 2014 16:08:53 GMT 12
This might add some fuel to the fire, but the C-17 flight manuals are currently sitting at 40 Sqn. Turned up early this week.
|
|
|
Post by skyhawkdon on Dec 13, 2014 16:49:46 GMT 12
Could 2 of the 4 the RAAF have ordered be for us as our contribution to this proposed ANZAC force? We dovetail off their preferred FMS status. Off the shelf, US manufactured and FMS supported would be a whole lot better than the European experience... both the ADF and RNZAF have learnt that the hard way and are going to be paying for it for decades to come.
"Australia’s government sums up their choice as follows: “One C-17A can carry up to four C-130 Hercules loads in a single lift, and cover twice the distance in three-quarters of the time of a C-130.”
Says it all really.
|
|
|
Post by saratoga on Dec 13, 2014 18:16:46 GMT 12
FMS might sound good but has lots of catches and hidden costs,and you never really own what you have paid for. The C-17 is fine for a strategic airlifter but what do you do at the other end when airstrips can only handle tactical size airlifters?
|
|
|
Post by skyhawkdon on Dec 13, 2014 19:19:18 GMT 12
I doubt these will replace our Hercs, rather supplement them. I also hear the medium lift transport project is still looking hopeful (No 1 Sqn is likely to be reformed). Yes FMS may be expensive but you get what you pay for. The ADF and NZDF has learnt the lesson.
|
|
|
Post by delticman on Dec 13, 2014 20:15:09 GMT 12
Apparently the new MoD got a look at a RAAF C17 and decided we needed some. Probably finally found an aircraft he could fit in. What I find amazing is that he got into the cab of one of those Chinese DL locomotives. He got out as well.........
|
|
|
Post by beagle on Dec 13, 2014 21:10:44 GMT 12
I haven't heard or seen anything re deal with RAAF. When jerry brownlie was on radio live news talking about it, he never mentioned anything re RAAF. It sounded like a pure NZ deal.
|
|
|
Post by beagle on Dec 13, 2014 21:20:01 GMT 12
Apparently the new MoD got a look at a RAAF C17 and decided we needed some. Probably finally found an aircraft he could fit in. What I find amazing is that he got into the cab of one of those Chinese DL locomotives. He got out as well......... couldn't find any food....
|
|
|
Post by beagle on Dec 13, 2014 21:23:08 GMT 12
FMS might sound good but has lots of catches and hidden costs,and you never really own what you have paid for. The C-17 is fine for a strategic airlifter but what do you do at the other end when airstrips can only handle tactical size airlifters? C27's or V22's
|
|
|
Post by baronbeeza on Dec 13, 2014 22:07:32 GMT 12
I am a little intrigued about these strips. Admittedly I have only operated out of a dozen or so 'strips' in the Pacific but I would have thought they basically fell into two categories. Either a sealed strip like Nausori, Bonriki, Kirimati, Canton and the likes or the others were were basically Otter or Islander jobs. I doubt the Andover, or similar, would be looking at many of these strips given they had a load of cargo and fuel. I am sure some of the members here would have been operating up there with RNZAF aircraft and they may have experience/ideas. Here is one island I am familiar with that has a population and no real airservice. The airstrip is only about 500 metres long and yet it is remote, miles from anywhere. I have vivid memories of a medivac we did out of there, with an Islander. www.google.co.nz/maps/place/Washington+Island,+Kiribati/@4.7011131,-160.4007125,12422m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x7a1803d470fceed7:0x72f6189060057243 The airfield is in the top left corner. The strip at Fanning Island is a little better but only really suitable for a Twin Otter tops. I would think any long range air support would be stopping at one of the International Airports in most cases. Helicopters or locally impressed aircraft may be able to help out with the 'in-theatre' tasks. I have been to Oz in the back of a Herc, that was far enough.. The F-27 was a much more civilised way of getting about. I feel for the Hercs and the way they have been thrashed around the world. Some here have done an 'indulgence flight' to the UK, it is not the one day (26 Hour) quick and easy trip I have managed. I am sure the Hercules were viewed as comfortable aircraft back in the days of the Vietnam event and the Singapore support. From memory that was back when the majority of us were driving about in British cars.
|
|
|
Post by phil82 on Dec 14, 2014 2:26:21 GMT 12
I have been to Oz in the back of a Herc, that was far enough.. The F-27 was a much more civilised way of getting about. I feel for the Hercs and the way they have been thrashed around the world. Some here have done an 'indulgence flight' to the UK, it is not the one day (26 Hour) quick and easy trip I have managed. I am sure the Hercules were viewed as comfortable aircraft back in the days of the Vietnam event and the Singapore support. From memory that back when the majority of us were driving about in British cars. Yep! I am one of them [indulgence to the UK as walk on freight in the back of a Herc]. After five days including a rest day, you tend to be a bid dazed! I fortunately was offered a ride back by RAF Air Movements ina VC10. Now there was a real bird!
|
|
|
Post by jimtheeagle on Dec 14, 2014 9:37:19 GMT 12
41 Squadron, anyone?
JT
|
|
|
Post by suthg on Dec 14, 2014 17:19:21 GMT 12
A series of images on FB of the C-17 Globemasters and infantry taking part in an exercise in Nevada this month ... Oh and some Hercs as well - one shot has 24 of them taxiing... www.facebook.com/NellisAFB
|
|
|
Post by camtech on Dec 14, 2014 18:52:56 GMT 12
I have flown home from the UK in the back of a C130 (loaded with freight), flown from UK to NZ on an Andover, plus plodded to and from Singapore in C130, Andover and Friendship, and even rattled from NZ to Brisbane and back on a Freighter, I cantestify that military aircraft are not designed for comfort - the exception being the Friendship. But then it took 3 days to get to Singapore, and three days home. I can also recall the days when the Paradak was used for SATS runs.
Most military aircraft are designed to deliver the goods to the front areas, and not for luxury travel.
|
|
|
Post by beagle on Dec 14, 2014 20:25:38 GMT 12
|
|
|
Post by beagle on Dec 14, 2014 20:44:10 GMT 12
[/quote]Yep! I am one of them [indulgence to the UK as walk on freight in the back of a Herc]. After five days including a rest day, you tend to be a bid dazed! I fortunately was offered a ride back by RAF Air Movements ina VC10. Now there was a real bird![/quote]
nothing wrong with long flights in a herk. loved it. 7 days to the UK then 7 days back. done it twice.loved the stop overs at exotic places I had never seen befote and probably never go back to.
|
|
|
Post by isc on Dec 14, 2014 21:14:29 GMT 12
The Hastings wasn't too bad in it's day, I suppose Hastings and Freighter, were like Hercules, and 757 today, tomorrow C-17 with reasonably comfortable seating plus the cargo area. isc
|
|
|
Post by Chris F on Dec 15, 2014 19:06:39 GMT 12
This is good positive stuff and I am sure there is a need for a C17 at times...just some questions I have. 1/ if there was a disaster in Pacific Islands and helicopter support was required..how would we get our NH-90's there? On the Canterbury which would take a couple of days if serviceable or available at that given time?..I know the NH-90's are capable of long range flights..but unproven under our use thus far. 2/Could a C-17 replace the 757's..not ideal VIP transport at all? 3/Could the long term view be to have a mixed fleet of C-17 and C-130J along with C-27J Sparten used as multi role aircraft for Coastel Maritime patrol?
I have always thought the RNZAF have missed capability when the Andover retired but maybe this is not the case or thinking at all and long term they feel a C-17 would offer them a far better long term capability..remember Governments think long term for military assets. Which ever way you look at this it can only be good news for our Defence Force and I am sure with the very successful purchase of the T-6c Texan II which were delivered on time and within budget the American offerings would be looking far more favorites.
|
|
|
Post by phil82 on Dec 15, 2014 19:16:26 GMT 12
That mixed fleet would take out the whole of the Defence budget for the next 30 years or so. Is the 130j still extant? I thought production ceased 2012?. We also had an option on them when the Aussies bought theirs if I recall correctly, but we declined to take it up. No money you see. If we didn't have the money then, why would we have it now?
|
|