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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 11, 2015 19:03:02 GMT 12
In recent years there has been a trend for some airshow goers to bring an entire encampment to an airshow rather than simply standing or bringing a fold up chair. I noted at Wings Over Wairarapa that on the Sunday the crowdline started to look like a camping ground:  And one structure particularly took the biscuit - check this out  I mean look at it, it's so large there is no way that the person sitting in there could actually see anything of the airshow - looking up they'd see roof and forward they'd see the crowd only. All this for ONE PERSON? You've gotta be kidding me! Yes there are two other chairs there, but note no-one was using them as the owners probably wanted to see the airshow. So why would anyone in their right mind pay big money for airshow tickets only to erect their own building and sit inside reading a book? This seems crazy to me.  I mean look at that yellow marquee here, it's taking up the same sized footprint as the white tent that a trader would have paid big money to set up there. Why are airshows allowing individuals set up huge, selfish private enclosures like this? What do others think of this trend? |
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Feb 11, 2015 19:12:50 GMT 12
All I can see is a lot of little white squares, each with a red-X in it.
You must be sourcing your photographs from Facebook, or some other social media site that is blocked by most company computer systems.
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Post by Bruce on Feb 11, 2015 19:21:30 GMT 12
Not a good trend at all. I went to Duxford in 2013 and the trend there was to set up wind break enclosures (of the traditional British seaside variety) right up against the crowd line. Kind of fencing off your territory so to speak. It ended up with a whole heap of little enclosures like a kiwi stock yard, each with 1 - 2 people inside. Then along come the sun umbrellas that then block everything behind them. Its no wonder that for a while the next trend was people bringing step ladders! Fortunatley most airshows have banned ladders now, but the crowdline camping is a bit of a cheek!
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Post by keroburner on Feb 11, 2015 21:43:14 GMT 12
Understand your points above. But how about this for an idea:
Set aside a strip of crowd line at airshows with pegged out squares of equal size, and sell them at a fair price and allow people to set up these types of camps in them? Ban them for the general crowd line area. Keeps "campers" happy and included, airshow organisers can make more money, it may even attract more families with young kids, allows some gold card type People to have some shade if needed, and lastly, keeps the others happy who just wish to stand and watch. Much like the designated camper van parks some airshows have.
Thoughts?
Sent from my GT-I8190T using proboards
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Post by phil82 on Feb 12, 2015 3:27:02 GMT 12
"Bring your family and friends to Wings Over Wairarapa in January 2015 and truly experience 100 years of Aviation".. This was just one of many ads for the WOW2015 show, which indicates such events are no longer solely for anoraks with responsibility for no one but themselves. If you choose to take your family, and many do, then , as any responsible parent will tell you, they need to be protected for much of the day from the wind and sun, and there is nothing at all wrong with taking your own protection with you.Again, parents know these things and it is after all, a FAMILY event and advertised as such. It's called freedom of choice! Apply restrictions and/or additional costs [having already bought a Family Pass]to families and watch your paying audience disappear!
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Post by craig on Feb 12, 2015 6:14:40 GMT 12
I agree with Phil. So long as the structures are well back from the crowd line, what is the harm. Definitely should not be allowed to block view of other punters as Bruce describes. But the yellow one that Dave refers to, is clearly not interfering with anyone. Adds to the relaxed atmosphere and would be quite welcome on a hot windless day I imagine.....
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Post by mumbles on Feb 12, 2015 7:01:21 GMT 12
In recent years there has been a trend for some airshow goers to bring an entire encampment to an airshow rather than simply standing or bringing a fold up chair. I noted at Wings Over Wairarapa that on the Sunday the crowdline started to look like a camping ground: Yup. This one is mine, here occupied by my wife and children   We are a lot smarter about the sun than we used to be, and the only reason I can think of that this didn't happen earlier is that small easily portable shade sources are more readily available. That said i've been basecamping at shows for years, as have many others. Is it gear to cart around? Yup, but aside from the chilly bin (which is wheeled) everything was easily carried by my wife and I and it makes the day a lot happier and easier, with more benefits than just shade. And one structure particularly took the biscuit - check this out I mean look at it, it's so large there is no way that the person sitting in there could actually see anything of the airshow - looking up they'd see roof and forward they'd see the crowd only. All this for ONE PERSON? You've gotta be kidding me! Yes there are two other chairs there, but note no-one was using them as the owners probably wanted to see the airshow. So why would anyone in their right mind pay big money for airshow tickets only to erect their own building and sit inside reading a book? This seems crazy to me. I mean look at that yellow marquee here, it's taking up the same sized footprint as the white tent that a trader would have paid big money to set up there. Why are airshows allowing individuals set up huge, selfish private enclosures like this? What do others think of this trend? As long as it's not right at the front and a ways back from the fenceline I have no problem with it. If you look at where that particular structure was placed it wasn't in a particularly good place to watch the show anyway, which suggests that the owners were showing a bit of consideration. |
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Post by Brett on Feb 12, 2015 7:34:35 GMT 12
I think those little sunshade tents are a fantastic idea. I agree with Phil82 and Mumbles, they provide a comfortable 'base' for families who provide most of the audience and income for the air shows I attend.
I would like to see a structure-free zone along the fence line, perhaps 5m, in the name of 'safety'. That would give members of the public a chance to catch fly-away tents and umbrellas before they cross the fence and onto the runway. By shear co-incidence, it would also allow me a relatively unobstructed view of the show.
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Post by flarebounceflare on Feb 12, 2015 7:38:26 GMT 12
The heat in the sun at Hood was pretty oppressive, and I am young, fit and solar powered. My young kids were in Masterton with me but I didn't take them because it was just too hot and there was not enough shade in the GA area, even though they were keen to go. If I had had a tent/shade with me I would have taken them. If you are spending the day there in the GA area, or more so the 3 days you needed shade, I spent a fair portion of time sitting beside vendors tents or under the toilet block just to get a break from the sun.
I noticed the tent/shelters on the first day and initially thought it was a bit thoughtless for others but by lunch time I could see they weren't really blocking the view and they were the only way you could have the family there for an extended period. On the whole I think the people with the bigger structures used their heads and set them up towards the back.
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Post by rayo on Feb 12, 2015 8:37:27 GMT 12
I attend Airshows and watch from the Public viewing areas. Actually it's great fun meeting all sorts of people from many countries. I have yet to meet anyone who was not considerate and cooperative if they were approached nicely. I frequently get strangers I have just meet to look after my chair for me when I need to leave it for short periods. In return I often do the same for them and have even keeped an eye on kids for them for a short time.
It's great to see all these people taking their families along and not only responsibly sharing their interest with them but hopefully creating a whole new generation of enthusiasts and Airshow attendees.
Some of us enthusiast like to get amongst the GP and spread the word!!
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Post by phil82 on Feb 12, 2015 8:47:59 GMT 12
Skin cancer is by far the most common cancer affecting New Zealanders. The total number of new melanoma and non-melanoma skin cancer NMSC (basal cell carcinoma and squamous cell carcinoma) cases amounts to around 80 percent of all new cancers each year. New Zealand, along with Australia, has among the highest melanoma rates in the world. We in this magnificent sunny country are now far better educated in respect of too much sun, and any steps taken to circumvent its effects are bloody good ones IMHO!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 12, 2015 8:49:35 GMT 12
It is good to see the opinions flowing, that was the whole aim of this thread, to see what people think.
Personally I am not too concerned at all with the smaller tents, as they actually only take up around the same amount of space as the more traditional sun umbrella, but they have a lot less of a vertical profile so they're better for the people behind. Plus they provide good sun and wind protection to people which is fine.
But I think that yellow structure is simply taking the piss. Imagine if the airshow had been really busy that day, its footprint is the size of around the space where 20 people would stand and it's all being used by one person who was seemingly completely uninterested in the air display (I took note every time I went past, by the way).
And imagine if this is the start of a new trend and everyone starts going out and getting their own massive Bedouin style tent, meaning there are suddenly 50 of these massive structures along the crowdline, or 100 of them. I agree with keroburner, if organisers are going to continue to allow such large structures they should be in a designated area and further back away from the crowdline in a patch where they have to pay more for the space they take up. The photos were taken late in the day but earlier when the crowd was a fair bit bigger that yellow thing was constantly being walked around by the migrating crowd, it formed a traffic island.
And Phil82 your post made me laugh how you seem to think only nowadays have airshows become family events. What planet have you been on? They have always been for the whole family, since airshows began, and most of the crowds at airshows for generations have been 'general public' rather than people with a 'special interest in aviation'. Plus the comment on family passes - those people are paying less to get in than the individual so an additional charge for a marquee if they choose to bring it seems fair to me.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 12, 2015 8:55:49 GMT 12
By the way, the aim of this thread has nothing to do with debating whether families should be brought along or not. It is purely seeking the opinions of others about the minority of individuals who seem to think they have a right to take up a huge amount of space all to themselves on the crowdline, to the point they put up a 20 x 20 foot structure that actually inhibits their view of the action.
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Post by mumbles on Feb 12, 2015 9:13:19 GMT 12
By the way, the aim of this thread has nothing to do with debating whether families should be brought along or not. It is purely seeking the opinions of others about the minority of individuals who seem to think they have a right to take up a huge amount of space all to themselves on the crowdline, to the point they put up a 20 x 20 foot structure that actually inhibits their view of the action. Except the structure you're focussing on isn't 20x20ft, isn't on the crowdline and isn't inhibiting anybody else's view (the Gold Pass and Corporate enclosures, and ATC, commentary and media towers more than ably do that at that location ). It's clearly been set up as a basecamp for at least three individuals, well behind the crowdline, and I've got no real objection to it in that location. On the fenceline would be different, and I wouldn't like to see anything much higher than my shade tent there. As you say it's a minority. Brett's 5M clearzone idea certainly has merit (while possibly having practical limitations), but I don't really see these things being a huge problem. Airshow space has always been on a first come first served basis anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 9:29:55 GMT 12
I like the idea of special slots but in all honesty I've had no problem with them at any show I've been to. If the spot I choose has something in the way, I move. The shows I've been to simply haven't been so crowded that such encampments are an issue. My problem has been trying to retain a spot on the fence at Wanaka through each day while still getting food etc.
Having been a regular at the Key Forum I'm well aware of the Duxford issue, and it's very unfortunate. I hope I'm able to avoid such obstructions when I eventually get there.
I did chuckle at Fort Yellow, but who are we to criticise this person? They've paid to be there. From the photos Dave shared their compound wasn't in anyone's way but their own.
I don't know about anyone else but I like to look around for a moment during a display slot and see everyone's reaction. That's the only time a sunshade gets in my way!
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Post by rayo on Feb 12, 2015 9:32:52 GMT 12
By the way, the aim of this thread has nothing to do with debating whether families should be brought along or not. It is purely seeking the opinions of others about the minority of individuals who seem to think they have a right to take up a huge amount of space all to themselves on the crowdline, to the point they put up a 20 x 20 foot structure that actually inhibits their view of the action. Uumm actually it does because no shade = no families - no Airshows. I think some rules to cover max size and location would help the Organisers if they wanted to Police it in Future but as it stands I don't really see it as a problem yet. |
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Post by flyinkiwi on Feb 12, 2015 9:40:54 GMT 12
We were down the eastern end of the crowd line near where the T-6C on static display was parked. There definitely were large shades erected right on the fenceline similar to the green gazebo type structure to the right of the yellow marquee Dave was talking about. I have no problems with them being to the rear of the crowd area, but obstructing the view down the fenceline is selfish and shouldn't be allowed.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 12, 2015 9:41:33 GMT 12
Except the structure you're focussing on isn't 20x20ft, You're probably right, if you take into account the guy ropes it would have been more than that. You have a different definition of crowdline than I have then. It is not on the fenceline but it's most definitely on the crowdline. I was not talking about anybody else's view in my statement, it inhibits the view of the user! Agreed, if you stand in particular spots, but there were significantly large areas of the crowdline that they don't get too much in the way of. Yes, it would appear they set up a massive section of space all to themselves and then at least two of them actually went elsewhere to watch the airshow from! Pointless. At present there is nothing stopping someone brining such a structure and erecting it right next to the fence right next to the most popular aeroplanes parked there, because as far as I am aware there are no regulations and guidelines in place at airshows, and so organisers don't have a leg to stand on if a load of people show up with these types of tents and stick them along the fence. Guidelines and rules need to be published in my opinion to prevent this, about maximum size allowable and positioning on the airfield (i.e. distance from the fenceline). I'm not sure what that has to do with it. |
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Post by rayo on Feb 12, 2015 10:09:40 GMT 12
We were down the eastern end of the crowd line near where the T-6C on static display was parked. There definitely were large shades erected right on the fenceline similar to the green gazebo type structure to the right of the yellow marquee Dave was talking about. I have no problems with them being to the rear of the crowd area, but obstructing the view down the fenceline is selfish and shouldn't be allowed. Mmm tricky what about that compared to the size of the Large green umbrella on the far left. The rule would have to be any item on the fenceline which blocks the view of any adult person of normal stature standing behind the etc etc. whheee good luck on that one. |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 12, 2015 10:18:13 GMT 12
We were down the eastern end of the crowd line near where the T-6C on static display was parked. There definitely were large shades erected right on the fenceline similar to the green gazebo type structure to the right of the yellow marquee Dave was talking about. I have no problems with them being to the rear of the crowd area, but obstructing the view down the fenceline is selfish and shouldn't be allowed.   |
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