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Post by mumbles on Feb 12, 2015 15:26:22 GMT 12
OK I have tested the waters enough with my confrontational banter to gauge the opinions here, and it seems most of you out there are quite happy with these large and small shades, so it's official - at the next airshow I am bringing a 60 x 20 shelter to park in a prime position and will rope it off so only selected WONZ members can come and join me in it. I might also have a beer mini tanker in there carefully disguised under a small windbreak, and some comfy couches. And yes, there will be an elevated platform by the fence for Shorty to use  I seem to recall pretty much exactly this idea (minus some accoutrements) being seriously proposed in the past on this forum |
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 12, 2015 16:34:41 GMT 12
Yes but back then it seemed like a rude idea to take a marquee to an airshow. Now it is apparently commonplace |
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Post by ErrolC on Feb 12, 2015 18:18:58 GMT 12
Yes but back then it seemed like a rude idea to take a marquee to an airshow. Now it is apparently commonplace It's one of those things that is fine if .5% of the people do it, and terrible if 10% do it. I got the feeling that there was more 'spare' space for such things at Masterton than there is at Omaka? |
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Post by Bruce on Feb 12, 2015 18:55:22 GMT 12
the weird thing is, in some areas (including Tauranga) putting up a Marquee for a trade stand (such as the white one in Daves big pictures) requires a Resource Consent(!) a permit or at least a waiver, which costs the exhibitors time and effort. When someone brings in a big "tent"nearly as big without so much as "can we put this up here?" they could be rightly put out. Admittedly the Bylaws which require the stupid permits have a lot to answer for, but its something that needs to be considered.
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Feb 13, 2015 21:22:34 GMT 12
I have a conundrum. I suffer seriously in the sun. I've had significant skin cancer surgery - skin cancer led to my father's death. But I love airshows, and attend as many as I can. I also am a keen spotter of planes and have taken thousands of photos at airshows. I used to get hung up on having a 'front row seat' and get my spot as early as possible.
In more recent (mature?) years, I've found that by settling further back behind the 'pressing' crowd I get to see all the aerial action, take more consistenly good photographs and have access to the amenities and treats of the stands and stalls.
Also, I've found that for long periods of the airshow (and I note some specific complaints regarding this most recent airrshow) time is spent standing around waiting... I get sore legs, and the day gets longer... So, to have a base camp as it were where one can find refuge from the sun, relaxation for the legs, refreshment for the physical needs, I WHOLLY SUPPORT the notion of a tent-like structure that doesn't interfere with the viewing pleasure of those committed to standing, pressed in at the fence-line. At the last Wairarapa airshow I attended I found myself LOOKING for refuge from the sun between displays.
Frankly, I find that NOTHING gets in the way of viewing a display because it is performed considerably above umbrella height - in the sky. Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon? I have found that I choose what to watch, and where because I actually don't want to stand in the same spot from 8:00am to 5:00pm in the middle of summer without some comforts, aeroplanes or not! Perhaps I'm getting old...
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Post by suthg on Feb 14, 2015 8:48:13 GMT 12
Just as an aside, all of the stall tents there were located together in orderly rows and particularly the food court was very busy but queues were always short - 0-3 people, so I never waited long for a beer or meat sandwich, large whitebait fritter (at $12!!) etc - the tables there were full though but one was prepared to stand for the whole day and I did enjoy the 15min interlude I took to get refreshed and have a second beer or two haha! I moved around considerably and did not find the personal tents a problem - although I never used the NW long crowd line where the frenzy of tents and people as depicted in a couple of photos pointing towards the Herc and Heli displays was. I stayed close to the ATC and flight line, no problems there. You could get up to the fence politely for one or two pics quite easily to shoot the static planes between displays. And yes, JF - I agree - I often stood back from the crowd in open spaces to swing and get good panning shots of the aircraft while displaying their routines. You don't always have to be at the fenceline. The tents, as they were, never bothered me. But if there were more or plenty of large ones, then yes, movement and viewing may well be restricted. I also agree that a note about maximum sizes and heights and distance from the viewing fenceline would be good rules to publish, perhaps even in an attachment to tickets, internet advertising or on posters. |
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Post by Mustang51 on Feb 14, 2015 11:24:16 GMT 12
I know that in Uk there are many heated arguements regarding fencing off areas, ladders and the like. I am reliably informed that at a Duxford words and perhaps even blows were exchanged at one time by some visitors who could no see due to the inconsiderate actions of a very small few. I have also heard one of the criticisims at Wings was... "Why don't you have more trees for shade....... " Oh well, I guess there's always one..... Its not just the structures that receive criticism overseas. I was told by IWM senior staff that considerable angst exists between those who take their pics with motor drives standing next to or close to those who do not take photographs but do make recordings . You cannot please everyone.
Mumbles, the second anyone put Ts & Cs in the ticketing regarding shade structures, umbrellas and the like you would run foul of the skin cancer people and rightly so. I know what it is like at Temora standing in front of the crowd on white concrete ramp in 42 degree heat...... not very good I can assure you but there has to be a line between protection and obstruction. How one achieves that I do not know as my days as Solomon are long gone.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 14, 2015 11:55:04 GMT 12
I was told by IWM senior staff that considerable angst exists between those who take their pics with motor drives standing next to or close to those who do not take photographs but do make recordings . You cannot please everyone. This is actually a serious problem that I have been affected by on many occasions at airshows and at other air events whilst trying to film, and it frankly pisses me off. Most of the people with media passes are stills photogs, all using digital and their cameras all seem to make a loud clicking sound (and am electronic beeping which is fake, made to sound like an old style camera and can be switched off). If I have tried to film from a media platform all I get on the sound track is the sound of thirty of these cameras clicking away like a paparazzi scrum, plus them all talking to each other. If I go and stand somewhere by myself away from the madding crowd and noisy camera folk I find almost always some stills photographers will see me there all alone and think to themselves "Hey he's found a good possy to shoot from, I'll join him!" Suddenly they are next to me clicking away and trying to strike up conversation. It's bloody frustrating. On one occasion when the photog was a mate I asked him to stand further away from me as he was not only ruining my sound track but also getting in my pans, and he seemed to get a bit put out. On another occasion some here will recall I was in the Gold Pass stand with several forum members who were all clicking away so I politely asked if they could turn the fake beep sound off, and they all complied willingly, and it made things so much better. I don't think the stills photographers realise what they are doing to the motion photographers' work, and I think the Media Co-ordinator at airshows should ask them all to turn off that ridiculous clicking sound on their cameras. Most would think it trivial, but it is an important issue if you're the camera operator. Especially these days when Airside passes away from the noisy crowd and Media are so damned hard to come by. |
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Post by ErrolC on Feb 14, 2015 12:06:52 GMT 12
I was told by IWM senior staff that considerable angst exists between those who take their pics with motor drives standing next to or close to those who do not take photographs but do make recordings . You cannot please everyone. This is actually a serious problem that I have been affected by on many occasions at airshows and at other air events whilst trying to film, and it frankly pisses me off. Most of the people with media passes are stills photogs, all using digital and their cameras all seem to make a clicking sound ( which is fake, made to sound like an old style camera and can be switched off). ... Completely false, it is the mechanical shutter on DSLRs moving |
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Post by johnnyfalcon on Feb 14, 2015 12:20:16 GMT 12
Well, it's easy to forget how blessed we are with modern technology. There once was a time when people were enamored with an 8mm movie camera that had no sound recording capabilities whatsoever. Even today, on this forum, we enjoy watching (only) the monochrome historical movies of NZ aviation.
I guess that's where we are blessed with having recordings done by HAFU and the like.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 14, 2015 12:20:57 GMT 12
Actually you're right Errol, I was recalling that wrong and have amended my post, it was an electronic beeping that the cameras were making every time the button was pushed, and which the people around me in the Gold pass (including yourself from memory Errol) switched off on their cameras. The shutter noise is annoying but the beeping compounds it. It's been a while since I bothered to take the video camera, I gave up trying.
Johnny, Alan of HAFU has said the exact same thing about the noise of the stills cameras.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 14, 2015 12:35:28 GMT 12
I should add too that other than those two occasions when I did say something, because I was with friends that I knew, I have never made any fuss about the noise of the stills cameras, and certainly never said anything to the media photogs who are there doing their job. It's just a fact of life and it cannot be helped.
Perhaps if the airshows provided media platforms for video camera only, that would eliminate a lot of the hassle, but that is a much bigger expense so will not happen. Just making the stills photogs aware that if a video guy is standing by himself away from everyone else he's not trying to be unsocial, and he's not pioneering a new place for everyone to come stand next to him - he's just trying to get a clean soundtrack - that might also help. I am always happy to meet up with friends (and strangers) at airshows, just not while I am trying to film, if you see what I mean.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 14, 2015 12:38:45 GMT 12
Oh and on a similar note - I have actually had people come up and tap me hard on the shoulder or say something really dumb loud enough to screw the soundtrack while I am clearly filming too - this is the closest it has come to "coming to blows" - they don't know it because I am too polite to thump them, but when some idiot screws up a shot while I am filming, I am NOT happy. it only takes common sense and courtesy!
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Post by ErrolC on Feb 14, 2015 12:45:02 GMT 12
Thanks for the reminder to turn the camera noise off on the phone for Omaka. It can be useful for those occasions when you aren't looking at the screen (and have no tactile feedback), but not worth annoying others.
I wish the DSLR makers would make it as easy to share a photo as it is on a phone (well it would have to be a little trickier, but they could automatically wi-fi a image that you 'lock' to a phone it's linked to, for instance). It's one reason I'm tempted by the Sony RX-10 - main thing stopping me is that it can't be a backup camera body for my big (for small values of 'big') zoom.
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Post by ErrolC on Feb 14, 2015 12:47:38 GMT 12
Oh and on a similar note - I have actually had people come up and tap me hard on the shoulder or say something really dumb loud enough to screw the soundtrack while I am clearly filming too - this is the closest it has come to "coming to blows" - they don't know it because I am too polite to thump them, but when some idiot screws up a shot while I am filming, I am NOT happy. it only takes common sense and courtesy! I always try to wait for a break before moving around a stand, the vibrations can be quite distracting for people! |
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Post by rayo on Feb 14, 2015 14:38:08 GMT 12
Gosh I enjoy going to airshows and always have ( first recollection 1956 Palmerston North) . I accept all the minor irritations as part of it and either mitigate it myself in some (pleasant) way or embrace it as part of the fun.
You know what I mean queueing for things & hotdogs not quite cooked properly, annoying people next to me etc etc.
I am not sure if some of the contributors here are enjoying them anymore and should maybe take a break from them till they appreciate all the positive things about the NZ Classic Airshow scene because it is fantastic and should be celebrated.
I am so lucky because I can remember when it did not exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Dave Homewood on Feb 14, 2015 15:30:59 GMT 12
You're right Ray. We're very lucky indeed to have what we have, the warbird airshows these days are great. I don't really mind the little tents - I was just trying to generate some discussion here to see what others thought about them, playing devil's advocate a bit just to see what opinions emerged. I do think the yellow thing is a bit excessive, but the other tents are fine. I know if I'd posted the same thing on a UK forum about a UK airshow there'd be 20 pages of opinions by now. We kiwis are a lot more relaxed I think.
The annoyance of the stills camera noise when filming next to them is real - but that is not just an airshow thing, it happens at any event.
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