RNZAF Museum - Your Wishlist

[Dave Homewood]

Oh yes! The Fairey IIIF would be wonderful. Replica of course as none could be sourced, but I truly thing they're a lovely aircraft. Stan Quill wrote about his experiences in the IIIF befoe the war just before he died and it was published in NZ Wings posthumously. A really interesting article. Have you read it

[Dave Homewood]

Just a note about the RNZAF Museum. In recent years its aquisistioning of new aircraft has slowed down, but they are still adding stuff, so maybe some of our wishlist aircraft may be on the horizon.

During 1991-93 when i lived at Wigram I practically lived at the Museum on Sundays. I always strolled down there at opening time, and went in to catch up with the staff who bacme good mates, and to have a great lunch in the cafe. It was always interesting and great entertainment to chat with the veterans, and being able to get in free as an airman helped. Also getting to know the lady who then ran the shop (Mrs Therese Angelo from memory) was a bonus as she alwys pointed out new books in, etc.

So I got to know the place very well over that time and really soaked up everything I could get.

It wasn't till Fen 04 I got to visit again but I instantly noticed the little changes in the displays. The three pilots representing the different generations in the Atrium corner had mulktiplied to four, with a modern strike pilot joining them (by now a museum piece too, a strike pilot!).

I noted the addition of the lady in the back of the Bleriot which was not there in my time.

I noted the Devon and Vampire T.55 were gone from Hangar 1 and replaced with the Iroqouois. The Hind was also gone. The best addition since I'd been was the completed Hudson. Also new to the collection since I'd been there were a Wasp, and a Seaspite.

And in the workshops were the P40E, Oxford and Vildebeest. So there are some excellent things on the horizon, additons are still being made. And I hope they continue to be made. Maybe we will see a Corsair someday, and a Ventura, and all these other things. We have to remember they all take time and money though. The restoration team is only budgeted $10,000 per year! A pittance. So the rest has to be fundraised through airshows or whatever or weadled out as sponsorship, etc. If you can help, I'm sure they would very much appreciate it.

[corsair67]

The restoration team is only budgeted $10,000 per year!

That is just so totally wrong: they should be given 100 times that amount each year to preserve New Zealand's military history before it disappears completely.

Of course, with Comrade Helen in power things aren't going to change, are they? She's too bloody busy giving money to other countries or to help idiots travel overseas to study Hip Hop.

By the way, how many Corsairs did Ross Jowett own? Was he the gentleman who owned NZ5612?

Regarding the RAAF Canberra: would it be possible to modify it to B(I)12 standard? Apart from the canopy, were there any other major external differences between the Aussie Mk 20 and RNZAF B(I)12 versions?

[Dave Homewood]

By the way, how many Corsairs did Ross Jowett own? Was he the gentleman who owned NZ5612?

Mr Jowitt apparently had two and about half Corsairs. He apparently has/had NZ5612, NZ5503 and parts from NZ5527 sourced from John Smith of Mapua, plus the remains of NZ5644 which came from the Walsh brothers in Cambridge (not the Walsh brothers).

Regarding the RAAF Canberra: would it be possible to modify it to B(I)12 standard? Apart from the canopy, were there any other major external differences between the Aussie Mk 20 and RNZAF B(I)12 versions?

I think it's a bigger job than converting their other Canberra. I guess the RAAF one is a swap item and will become available when the other Canberra is restored, but it's probably a long time away yet.

The museum no doubt needs new volunteers too. When I was there in 2004 I noticed there were not that many people in the workshops. The permanent RNZAF staff had been cut to the bone, and their outside support they had when the base was active has of course gone (the museum did get a fair bit done around the base sections, just like any unit might. I was lucky to always be the S&S man seconded to their work, thnks to my Sgt recognising my keeness for such work).

Also the volunteers who started there have almost all gone, as they were mostly WWII aircrew and groundcrew. Time takes its toll. I noticed in 2004 the Museum guides were not as old as they used to be, and nowhere near as good for rememebring details. One chap who took the tour through the hangars got several facts very wrong. That never happened with the WWII guys, they knew it because they lived it, in WWII and in the 1990's. It was their life. Not belittling the guides now, they dod a great service, but there is an element of authenticity missing I feel, which will never be recaptured when the WWII generation are gone.

[corsair67]

Ah, that's right; the museum has an ex-RAF B(I)8 in storage, doesn't it? I'd forgotten about that one.

The museum certainly does need more volunteers, but trying to convince the 'Memememememe generation' to give up some of their 'precious' time to assist a worthy cause is virtually impossible, and unfortunately as the ranks of the WW2 generation fade we are losing a lot of the skills and knowledge of those men and women.

What scares me the most though, is that as time passes the RNZAF Museum may be allowed to wither further by the Govt because it's been left on a 'dead' base and is gradually being forgotten about.

[Dave Homewood]

I've been giving it some thought and I seriously think that the RNZAF Museum should try to get hold of a de Havilland DH60 Moth. They were used by the NZPAF before the war, one of which became the first New Zealand aircraft to go into an operational combat role (during the Samoan uprising of 1930). Also the type was hugely prominent in the aeroclub scene of the 1930's where many of the RNZAF's pilots trained. Furthermore when war began 22 of them were impressed into service and no. 2 Elementary Flying Training School was established around them, as well as a few Magisters and other types. They served as trainers till about 1941 when sufficient Tige Moths usurped their role. Some stayed on still in military service for communications purposes, at least two serving in Fiji.

I think it's a really significant type that needs to be remembered for its various roles of training, communications and even combat in New Zealand service.

However, what are the numbers like in this country? I know of only one flying example (coloured silver). Are there any other Moths in storage or under restoration anywhere? What is their market value like? More than the plentiful Tiger Moth?

[Bruce]

There are two airworthy moths in NZ now, but I beleive there could be more on the horizon, I would guess they would more likely be DH60Ms with metal frames - the wooden ones havent survived particularly well. With regards to Canberras, getting the BI-8 to look like a -12 would be a doddle - they are essentially indentical except for the navigator ejection seat and a few minor details. You would need to graft a new nose on the aussie one as the internal layout is substantially different in a "Bomber" Canberra.
I think that the museum really needs more funding - who's our Arts and Culture minister again - (Thats right.... Helen) I wouldnt want to see Wigram go down the path of a number of other well intentioned museums and try and rebuild aircraft "on the cheap" without any particular skillbase or resources. Unfortunately with the upsurge in the value of "Warbird" engineering, it is likely in the future that to get suitable tradesmen they will have to be paid market rates - or at least near market rates. It is going to be interesting to see how the museum staffing situation throughout NZ goes during the next 5- 10 years - how many stored projects (e.g Ferrymeads collection) will ever get restored?

[Dave Homewood]

Thanks Bruce regarding the Moths. I hope we see more soon, they're great little aircraft.

Regarding the Canberra, it would be great if they could get it reassembled and painted up like an RNZAF example. I'm sure there will be loads of ex-RNZAF Canberra men who're willing to help out too when the time comes. Just pure specualtion, but I'd guess the only thing holding this back right now is lack of display space and perhaps we will see the Canberra restored when the proposed extension to the museum is built. I saw the Canberra when it arrived, and photos of it before dissasembly, and it does seem very complete and in good condition despite coming from a scrap dealer. So I think it's probably one of the lesser big jobs ahead for the restoration team.

As for your quote:
"I wouldnt want to see Wigram go down the path of a number of other well intentioned museums and try and rebuild aircraft "on the cheap" without any particular skillbase or resources."

That I fully agree with, but I would think that it will never happen. Rather than go cheap on what they have I'd think they'd rather halt restoration full stop. Their policies on restoration are first rate. Everything the team rebuilds is rebuilt to flyable standard according to the various RNZAF members of the team i've spoken to over the years. That was still the case when I visited in 2004. That is why the P40E is taking so long, they could have made it aesthetically like a P40E (ala Motat), but no, they are making it completely a P40E. It could in theory be flown. I was told this policy was set up in case later the museum hits troubled times and needs to dispense with some items, theyd be much more valuable and lucrative. Or in another scenario if a genuine RNZAF P40 with a history came up for sale, the museum's one could be sold to pay for the real one - and they'd have much more money to play with in this case selling an airworthy example.

So though these aircraft will never fly with the museum (sadly) they theoretically all could with little effort to get them into the air.

Thus, it would take a major policy change to allow unskilled workers do a slapdash job. The board would not allow it to happen. There will always be a stream of volunteers with RNZAF or civil aviation backgrounds even after the last WWII guys are gone from the team, and hoepfully always the small core of RNZAF full timers too who still run the restoration team, Quality will prevail over quantity I am sure.

As for Ferrymead and Motat, I think things may continue to tick along as they always have unless some very rich person decides to buy the collections and pump more money in.

As far as prospects go, after the Vildebeest, oxford and P40E are finished, there are genuine prospects I'd think of seeing the Canberra restored, but as for the Catalina I think this could be much further off in the distance unless there was considerable sponsorship from someone like Air New Zealand Engineering, etc.

There's also a Mosquito project in the wings for the Museum and I think a certain Mr Powell may be able to assist on that one. Whether that happens too I don't know.

It will be interesting to see what exactly does happen in the future at Wigram. It's been nearly two years since i was last there and heard of the proposed new entension which i have not seen any evidence of since. This may well be their biggest future project, raising money for that. No small task at all in today's world. I wish them lots of luck.