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Post by ErrolC on Sept 9, 2019 10:53:21 GMT 12
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Post by tfly on Oct 10, 2019 6:27:18 GMT 12
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Post by machina on Oct 10, 2019 12:02:23 GMT 12
I seem to recall reading on this thread a while ago that with the P-8 being a jet, illegal fishermen and traffickers would hear it coming and have time to hide their illegal activities. However in the Pacific it's surely going to sound like every other commercial flight to the islands and so have some sort of audiol camoflauge. The ATR 72MP would likely have the same advantage, as well being a known airframe in this country.
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Post by harrysone on Oct 10, 2019 15:38:46 GMT 12
except that most commercial jets may not be coming at you 500ft or below! I was reading an article the other day how Boeing have stressed the P-8 airframe (over the 737-800) for low level flight.
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Post by nighthawknz on Oct 10, 2019 16:10:00 GMT 12
been over a year since any chat in here. Anyone got any new thoughts after this time on selections etc Right choice... number of air frames a bit lite...
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Post by madmac on Oct 10, 2019 18:54:11 GMT 12
I seem to recall reading on this thread a while ago that with the P-8 being a jet, illegal fishermen and traffickers would hear it coming and have time to hide their illegal activities. However in the Pacific it's surely going to sound like every other commercial flight to the islands and so have some sort of audiol camoflauge. The ATR 72MP would likely have the same advantage, as well being a known airframe in this country. Given the number we would buy, probably cheaper just to get another P8 or two.
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Post by senob on Oct 10, 2019 20:57:07 GMT 12
I seem to recall reading on this thread a while ago that with the P-8 being a jet, illegal fishermen and traffickers would hear it coming and have time to hide their illegal activities. However in the Pacific it's surely going to sound like every other commercial flight to the islands and so have some sort of audiol camoflauge. The ATR 72MP would likely have the same advantage, as well being a known airframe in this country. Given the number we would buy, probably cheaper just to get another P8 or two. The Request For Tender (RFT) for the Air Crew Training Capability the King Airs (now KA350) would be fitted with Govt Furnished Equipment (GFE) and the tenders had to be submitted by 21/9/2017.
From the RFT:
"3. The proposed sensor suite shall include: (a) fitment of all aircraft ‘for, but not with’ sensors and equipment, allowing movement between aircraft as role equipment, whilst ensuring all aircraft maintain identical flight characteristics; (b) provision of a fully civil certified solution (certified by a civil National Airworthiness Authority recognised by NZDF); (c) sufficient equipment and logistics support to permit sensors and equipment being fitted to two aircraft at any time; and; (d) integration with the proposed AWO training system, and display of sensor information at all proposed training system student and instructor positions.
4. The Tenderer shall propose a solution for each of the following options: (a) Fitment of a maritime surveillance radar that: (i) is controlled from the primary AWO student position; (ii) is able to provide, via the radar or the mission system, the following contact data: 1. heading, 2. distance, 3. bearing, 4. speed and 5. geographical position. (iii) preferably provides an ISAR imaging mode. (b) Fitment of a turret mounted High Definition Electro Optic/ Infra Red (EO/IR) camera system that: (i) is fitted with a control at the primary AWO student position, (ii) provides the ability to record imagery, (iii) provides downloadable video in a format that can be readily replayed in a common format, (iv) provides the ability to stream video from the aircraft, (v) provides the ability to slew to an Automatic Identification System, Radar, AWO Mission system or manually entered target/contact, (vi) preferably provides GPS geo-tagging. (c) Fitment of an Automatic Identification System to allow for identifying and locating maritime vessels. (d) Provide a beyond line of sight data transfer system, including antenna, which can transmit a data or video file. (e) Provide details of any growth potential for additional systems in the rear cabin, for example VHF or UHF radios, with emphasis on potential tracking systems and power. (f) Fitment of a belly mounted equipment pod which has the ability to protect a range of antennas (including directional). To preserve operational characteristic of the aircraft, this option may be proposed as a permanent fit to all aircraft and also house the maritime surveillance radar."
Therefore, I would suggest that the KA350 fitted out as above will be the P-8 complimentary capability, and when you think about it, the best way to train an AWO is on the job chasing maritime targets within the EEZ.
The tender was assessed during the last election period and was approved by the current govt. The current lease is, from memory until 2026 or 27, so we will have plenty of time to assess the capability. By that time we will have the radars, AIS, EO / IR turrets, comms, EW gear etc., and consoles from the P-3K2 that we could port across another platform such as the KA350 or similar.
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Post by senob on Oct 10, 2019 21:05:10 GMT 12
I seem to recall reading on this thread a while ago that with the P-8 being a jet, illegal fishermen and traffickers would hear it coming and have time to hide their illegal activities. However in the Pacific it's surely going to sound like every other commercial flight to the islands and so have some sort of audiol camoflauge. The ATR 72MP would likely have the same advantage, as well being a known airframe in this country. The P-8 has the capability to detect, identify, record the required evidence, and geolocate an illegal fv to the required legal standard, well before said illegal fv was aware that they were featuring on 5 Sqn's Police 10/7. Then if they want to they can pay a low level visit to let them know that they've been sprung.
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Post by nighthawknz on Oct 10, 2019 21:31:36 GMT 12
I seem to recall reading on this thread a while ago that with the P-8 being a jet, illegal fishermen and traffickers would hear it coming and have time to hide their illegal activities. However in the Pacific it's surely going to sound like every other commercial flight to the islands and so have some sort of audiol camoflauge. The ATR 72MP would likely have the same advantage, as well being a known airframe in this country. The P-8 has the capability to detect, identify, record the required evidence, and geolocate an illegal fv to the required legal standard, well before said illegal fv was aware that they were featuring on 5 Sqn's Police 10/7. Then if they want to they can pay a low level visit to let them know that they've been sprung. what ^ he said above ^ Buy time the illegal fishing vessel has spotted the P-8 ... the P-8 crew will already have all the evidence they need and probably on a smoko break... lol How do I put... the P-8 has some "real" high tech gear... lol
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Post by machina on Oct 10, 2019 21:40:16 GMT 12
The P-8 has the capability to detect, identify, record the required evidence, and geolocate an illegal fv to the required legal standard, well before said illegal fv was aware that they were featuring on 5 Sqn's Police 10/7. Then if they want to they can pay a low level visit to let them know that they've been sprung. what ^ he said above ^ Buy time the illegal fishing vessel has spotted the P-8 ... the P-8 crew will already have all the evidence they need and probably on a smoko break... lol How do I put... the P-8 has some "real" high tech gear... lol Just to be clear, I never agreed with that assertion, I merely recall it while speculating on the possibility of our airbourne maritime patrol component sharing its airframe types with the commercial operators of the region.
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Post by ErrolC on Oct 11, 2019 9:21:04 GMT 12
Definately of interest to RNZAF www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/raaf-funds-work-to-beef-up-p-8a-sar-capability-461384/The Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) is funding a project to expand the search and rescue (SAR) capability of the Boeing P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft. The work is taking place NAS Patuxent River and has seen P-8As deploy the UNIPAC III SAR kit, according to a NAVAIR statement. The kit allows a single P-8A to drop rescue supplies capable of assisting 100 survivors in a single sortie, up from 16 with the UNIPAC II kit ...
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Post by gibbo on Oct 11, 2019 21:05:53 GMT 12
Given the number we would buy, probably cheaper just to get another P8 or two. The Request For Tender (RFT) for the Air Crew Training Capability the King Airs (now KA350) would be fitted with Govt Furnished Equipment (GFE) and the tenders had to be submitted by 21/9/2017.
From the RFT:
"3. The proposed sensor suite shall include: (a) fitment of all aircraft ‘for, but not with’ sensors and equipment, allowing movement between aircraft as role equipment, whilst ensuring all aircraft maintain identical flight characteristics; (b) provision of a fully civil certified solution (certified by a civil National Airworthiness Authority recognised by NZDF); (c) sufficient equipment and logistics support to permit sensors and equipment being fitted to two aircraft at any time; and; (d) integration with the proposed AWO training system, and display of sensor information at all proposed training system student and instructor positions.
4. The Tenderer shall propose a solution for each of the following options: (a) Fitment of a maritime surveillance radar that: (i) is controlled from the primary AWO student position; (ii) is able to provide, via the radar or the mission system, the following contact data: 1. heading, 2. distance, 3. bearing, 4. speed and 5. geographical position. (iii) preferably provides an ISAR imaging mode. (b) Fitment of a turret mounted High Definition Electro Optic/ Infra Red (EO/IR) camera system that: (i) is fitted with a control at the primary AWO student position, (ii) provides the ability to record imagery, (iii) provides downloadable video in a format that can be readily replayed in a common format, (iv) provides the ability to stream video from the aircraft, (v) provides the ability to slew to an Automatic Identification System, Radar, AWO Mission system or manually entered target/contact, (vi) preferably provides GPS geo-tagging. (c) Fitment of an Automatic Identification System to allow for identifying and locating maritime vessels. (d) Provide a beyond line of sight data transfer system, including antenna, which can transmit a data or video file. (e) Provide details of any growth potential for additional systems in the rear cabin, for example VHF or UHF radios, with emphasis on potential tracking systems and power. (f) Fitment of a belly mounted equipment pod which has the ability to protect a range of antennas (including directional). To preserve operational characteristic of the aircraft, this option may be proposed as a permanent fit to all aircraft and also house the maritime surveillance radar."
Therefore, I would suggest that the KA350 fitted out as above will be the P-8 complimentary capability, and when you think about it, the best way to train an AWO is on the job chasing maritime targets within the EEZ.
The tender was assessed during the last election period and was approved by the current govt. The current lease is, from memory until 2026 or 27, so we will have plenty of time to assess the capability. By that time we will have the radars, AIS, EO / IR turrets, comms, EW gear etc., and consoles from the P-3K2 that we could port across another platform such as the KA350 or similar.
Certainly haven't seen any external evidence of the KA350 carrying any sensors so lordie knows if they ever went thru with this or whether with AWO training just moving to the KA350 now maybe that capability is about to 'land'. The DCP still leaves the complimentary capability (now called the 'Enhanced Maritime Awareness Capability' and is far from set on fixed wing at this point. Certainly the KA350 (ER) is a known quantity in the surveillance space although for SAR I'm not sure what mods would be required to drop SAR packs as they don't have a bomb-bay nor a side door that can be opened in flight... but I'm sure something could be developed relatively cheaply. I'd be ok with the KA350 getting this role added so long as they took on 2-3 more airframes to avoid squeezing fleet availability for MEPT & AWO.
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Post by senob on Oct 11, 2019 21:21:02 GMT 12
The Request For Tender (RFT) for the Air Crew Training Capability the King Airs (now KA350) would be fitted with Govt Furnished Equipment (GFE) and the tenders had to be submitted by 21/9/2017.
From the RFT:
"3. The proposed sensor suite shall include: (a) fitment of all aircraft ‘for, but not with’ sensors and equipment, allowing movement between aircraft as role equipment, whilst ensuring all aircraft maintain identical flight characteristics; (b) provision of a fully civil certified solution (certified by a civil National Airworthiness Authority recognised by NZDF); (c) sufficient equipment and logistics support to permit sensors and equipment being fitted to two aircraft at any time; and; (d) integration with the proposed AWO training system, and display of sensor information at all proposed training system student and instructor positions.
4. The Tenderer shall propose a solution for each of the following options: (a) Fitment of a maritime surveillance radar that: (i) is controlled from the primary AWO student position; (ii) is able to provide, via the radar or the mission system, the following contact data: 1. heading, 2. distance, 3. bearing, 4. speed and 5. geographical position. (iii) preferably provides an ISAR imaging mode. (b) Fitment of a turret mounted High Definition Electro Optic/ Infra Red (EO/IR) camera system that: (i) is fitted with a control at the primary AWO student position, (ii) provides the ability to record imagery, (iii) provides downloadable video in a format that can be readily replayed in a common format, (iv) provides the ability to stream video from the aircraft, (v) provides the ability to slew to an Automatic Identification System, Radar, AWO Mission system or manually entered target/contact, (vi) preferably provides GPS geo-tagging. (c) Fitment of an Automatic Identification System to allow for identifying and locating maritime vessels. (d) Provide a beyond line of sight data transfer system, including antenna, which can transmit a data or video file. (e) Provide details of any growth potential for additional systems in the rear cabin, for example VHF or UHF radios, with emphasis on potential tracking systems and power. (f) Fitment of a belly mounted equipment pod which has the ability to protect a range of antennas (including directional). To preserve operational characteristic of the aircraft, this option may be proposed as a permanent fit to all aircraft and also house the maritime surveillance radar."
Therefore, I would suggest that the KA350 fitted out as above will be the P-8 complimentary capability, and when you think about it, the best way to train an AWO is on the job chasing maritime targets within the EEZ.
The tender was assessed during the last election period and was approved by the current govt. The current lease is, from memory until 2026 or 27, so we will have plenty of time to assess the capability. By that time we will have the radars, AIS, EO / IR turrets, comms, EW gear etc., and consoles from the P-3K2 that we could port across another platform such as the KA350 or similar.
Certainly haven't seen any external evidence of the KA350 carrying any sensors so lordie knows if they ever went thru with this or whether with AWO training just moving to the KA350 now maybe that capability is about to 'land'. The DCP still leaves the complimentary capability (now called the 'Enhanced Maritime Awareness Capability' and is far from set on fixed wing at this point. Certainly the KA350 (ER) is a known quantity in the surveillance space although for SAR I'm not sure what mods would be required to drop SAR packs as they don't have a bomb-bay nor a side door that can be opened in flight... but I'm sure something could be developed relatively cheaply. I'd be ok with the KA350 getting this role added so long as they took on 2-3 more airframes to avoid squeezing fleet availability for MEPT & AWO. I think one disappeared across the ditch for modifications late last year, so that could be the one that they are modding first. Not much is being said about this at all.
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Post by tbf25o4 on Oct 12, 2019 7:38:13 GMT 12
There will be two KA350s fitted with a permanent external sensor pods (From my article on "The New Breed" NZ AVNEWS) - . For the AWO role there are two configurations, one with two student consoles with fully simulated systems and one where the AWO consoles are integrated into real-life onboard sensors. For the latter tasks two of the fleet will be fitted with a permanent underslung pod containing an Infra-red/electro-optic camera and forward-looking multi-mode radar. The first of these two airframes will be delivered in October 2019. Allowing for phased servicing for each aircraft every 200 hours, aircraft availability will be based on three aircraft at any one time. The two airframes with permanent fite will be NZ2351 and NZ2352"
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Post by ErrolC on Oct 30, 2019 9:12:24 GMT 12
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 30, 2019 11:17:39 GMT 12
Sounds like the US Navy supply chain is the same as the RNZAF's...
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madmark
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 78
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Post by madmark on Oct 30, 2019 16:10:11 GMT 12
I bet Iran would be willing to hit "Buy Now" on those F-14 parts and P-3 parts come to think of it..
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Post by nighthawknz on Oct 30, 2019 16:20:16 GMT 12
I bet Iran would be willing to hit "Buy Now" on those F-14 parts and P-3 parts come to think of it.. pretty sure we need some parts to keep ours flying for another 3 years...
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Post by nighthawknz on Nov 30, 2019 8:07:54 GMT 12
New Zealand starts construction of Poseidon base29 November 2019 Media Statement New Zealand’s defense minister marked the official start of construction works on a new base for the country’s future P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft with a sod-turning ceremony on November 29. P-8A Poseidon base works commence Minister of Defence Ron Mark turned the first sod of earth on the infrastructure works for the new P-8A Poseidon fleet at RNZAF Base Ohakea today. “The Coalition Government’s investment in Ohakea will ensure the Royal New Zealand Air Force can manage, maintain and task the new fleet efficiently ahead of the first aircraft’s arrival in 2023,” says Ron Mark. “The purchase by the Coalition Government of these aircraft to replace the aging 1960s-era P-3K2 Orions demonstrated a strong commitment to the security of New Zealand, and reinforced our foreign policy interests through enabling stronger defence contributions to Pacific and global security,” “The Coalition Government will make the once in a generation decisions required, after years of under-investment leading to aging equipment and infrastructure,” says Mr Mark. “Basing the P-8A fleet at Ohakea will be a boost for the economy and vitality of Manawatu and the surrounding region through the construction phase, and over the long term as around 270 members of the Air Force’s 5 Squadron bring their families to the area,” “The works I am starting today will feed into the region in the form of engagement of local services, manufacturing, equipment and materials industries. At its peak the construction project will be employing around 300 people, many of whom will be recruited from the local area,” says Mr Mark. The project’s infrastructure includes crew and maintenance simulators, an operations centre and hangar, warehousing and maintenance facilities. There will be two phases of work. The first stage, which Ron Mark commenced today, has been awarded to Fulton Hogan and involves site preparation, roads, utilities and runway aprons, at a cost of $64.5 million. The second phase, focused on building construction, will be subject to a separate procurement process, with work expected to start in the second quarter of 2020. The total cost across both phases is estimated to be over $200 million. All infrastructure work is expected to be finished by early 2022. In July 2018 the Coalition Government announced the decision to buy the fleet of four P-8A aircraft at an overall cost of $2.346 billion. Photos are available at: www.dropbox.com/sh/nighthawk.nz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1947:new-zealand-starts-construction-of-poseidon-base&catid=8&Itemid=108www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1911/S00246/p-8a-poseidon-base-works-commence.htm
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Post by zealman on Feb 16, 2020 12:40:39 GMT 12
I know this is the incorrect thread, but has this government actually signed a contract with Lockheed Martin for the C-130j-30s?
I have a sneaking suspicion a lot of people have been duped over this so called announcement. To my knowledge these current clowns in government have not signed anything with L.M, nor do I think they ever will to be honest. Election year promises are just that!
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