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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 9, 2020 11:34:46 GMT 12
Boeing will be able to ramp up defence production surely, as the airlines will not be so keen on lots of new aircraft now with so many slightly used ones about to come on the market as the airline industry plummets into a deep dark hole.
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madmark
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 78
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Post by madmark on Apr 9, 2020 12:57:52 GMT 12
Guess you missed it Errol, but the USN has already completed its transition to the P-8 last year, they already have 100 P-8s. Maybe just a few special fit P-3s kicking around. But the P-3 is finished as far as the USN concerned. They have ample P-8s to keep tabs on the SCS. Yes the Boeing production line has been paused, but that will be for months, not years. Trump has made it pretty clear that he's happy to accept some degree of increased fatalities over killing the US economy, expect production to start again soon. We will get our frames on time. Have a look back over what I've posted, you'll find I'm not the one peddling conspiracy theories on here.. www.janes.com/article/92051/us-completes-operational-transition-from-p-3c-to-p-8a
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Post by ErrolC on Apr 9, 2020 12:58:31 GMT 12
True, but you could get things like the manufacturer of some P-8-specific piece of equipment going under after not being paid for several months. It's not just the airframe. There will be P-8 delays for the next several months at least, which isn't going to help with the P-3 spares situation.
Overall, uncertainty has increased. Assuming that we will get ours delivered as planned for the next 1-3 years would be foolish.
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Post by ErrolC on Apr 9, 2020 13:03:54 GMT 12
Guess you missed it, but the USN has already completed its transition to the P-8 last year, they already have 100 P-8s. Maybe just a few special fit P-3s kicking around. But the P-3 is finished as far as the USN concerned. They have ample P-8s to keep tabs on the SCS. Yes the Boeing production line has been paused, but that will be for months, not years. Trump has made it pretty clear that he's happy to accept some degree of increased fatalities over killing the US economy, expect production to start again soon. We will get our frames on time. Have a look back over what I've posted, you'll find I'm not the one peddling conspiracy theories on here.. www.janes.com/article/92051/us-completes-operational-transition-from-p-3c-to-p-8aI never suggested that you were, you brought them up. I don't think having a different opinion on future probabilities is a conspiracy theory.
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madmark
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 78
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Post by madmark on Apr 9, 2020 13:53:57 GMT 12
Excellent, now could you please explain why you think a few months pause in P-8 production is going to create a 3 year delay in RNZAF P-8 IOC as you suggested earlier?
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Post by baz62 on Apr 9, 2020 14:32:32 GMT 12
Think it was mainly SAR using Mk1 eyeballs & binocs wasn't it? Handy little a/c though. I've always wondered about why the underwing tanks were at that funny 'nose down' angle (same as any other F27)... just doesn't seem logical aerodynamically but I guess that's precisely why they are at that angle...weird! I think I recall it something to do with useable fuel as the pickup to feed fuel was near the front of the tank? Snaphead will probably know as these were his babies at Wigram.
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madmark
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 78
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Post by madmark on Apr 14, 2020 10:01:03 GMT 12
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Post by isc on Apr 14, 2020 15:32:09 GMT 12
You only have to look at the state of the aviation business in USA to see that if we want NEW, we better start building now DIY. Ian S C
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Post by Damon on Apr 18, 2020 16:37:40 GMT 12
Is the intention to get 4 aircraft to replace the 6 P-3 .I hoped it would have been more. Will our P-8 have air to air refueling capability , does anyone know?
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Post by Calum on Apr 19, 2020 12:00:49 GMT 12
Is the intention to get 4 aircraft to replace the 6 P-3 .I hoped it would have been more. Will our P-8 have air to air refueling capability , does anyone know? Yeah 4 P-8's for 6 P-3's. I'd expect more P-8's will be available on most given days than P-3's are now. That said another one would be a wise investment noting the world is becoming increasingly unstable . If the RNZAF, as is their stated intent, maintains the aircraft in line with the USN configuration purchasing another airframe in the future will mean it can slot into the inventory with little difficulty. The P-8 can be refuelled in flight via a boom equipped tanker. Obviously the RNZAF doesn't have one and to be honest it seems hard to justify one or 2 but our major allies (the US and Australia) do .
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Post by gibbo on Apr 19, 2020 15:28:38 GMT 12
Is the intention to get 4 aircraft to replace the 6 P-3 .I hoped it would have been more. Will our P-8 have air to air refueling capability , does anyone know? Yeah 4 P-8's for 6 P-3's. I'd expect more P-8's will be available on most given days than P-3's are now. That said another one would be a wise investment noting the world is becoming increasingly unstable . If the RNZAF, as is their stated intent, maintains the aircraft in line with the USN configuration purchasing another airframe in the future will mean it can slot into the inventory with little difficulty. The P-8 can be refuelled in flight via a boom equipped tanker. Obviously the RNZAF doesn't have one and to be honest it seems hard to justify one or 2 but our major allies (the US and Australia) do . Yes 4 x P8a for 6 x P3K2, however there is another factor that seems to continually be ignored when talking P8 airframe numbers...although given it is still largely conceptual that is perhaps unsurprising. That is the 'Enhanced Maritime Awareness Capability' outlined in last years DCP. To quote the DefMin: “ To improve maritime domain awareness, the Plan includes an Enhanced Maritime Awareness Capability to complement the P-8s, maritime satellite surveillance, and Long Range Unmanned Aerial Vehicles". And the DCP itself: " The Enhanced Maritime Awareness Capability project will support the Government’s civil maritime security strategy, providing air surveillance capabilities that enhance all-of-Government maritime domain awareness in New Zealand and the Southern Ocean. The capabilities delivered through this investment will be dedicated to civil surveillance requirements, with Defence support for their delivery and operation. This will free up the new P-8A maritime patrol aircraft fleet to fly more missions in the South Pacific and further afield. Investment in a range of capabilities will be considered, including satellite surveillance, unmanned aerial vehicles and traditional fixed-wing surveillance". I read this to mean P8's could potentially be freed-up from some SAR & Patrol taskings where this 'other' capability is able to provide coverage... meaning the P8 will be able to focus more on the higher end taskings. Yes there's no detail yet and I dare say, as per the latest AF news (pg 28) , that satellites will be a key part of this capability, as will UAV's in the longer term. Also with the P8 to be delivered with 1 x flight simulator; 1 x weapons tactics simulator; and 1 x virtual maintenance trainer, there will arguably likely be a higher number of hours done 'in class' rather than 'in the air', which in it's own small way helps towards having aircraft available for operational tasking. I appreciate 1 simulator does not equal one airframe, but it does help, especially when we'll have such a small fleet. So ignoring any potential COVID impacts on defence spending there is more to be announced in this area
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Post by camtech on Apr 19, 2020 15:55:05 GMT 12
part of the "freeing up" of P-8 capability will rest with two of the King Airs, one of which returned earlier with an underslung pod with radar and infra red capability, both to train Air Warfare officers and offer a limited surveillance capability. NZ2350 has ben in country for some time, but I note Flight radar reports of another King air, VH-ZPU airborne around Ohakea yesterday/today. This rego traces back to NZ2352, which I am now assuming has arrived home after having the pod mod completed. Any thoughts, details, dates, etc as i am wanting to update ADF Serials NZ page. I see the owner of VH-ZPU is the ANZ Bank!
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Post by gibbo on Apr 19, 2020 16:52:04 GMT 12
part of the "freeing up" of P-8 capability will rest with two of the King Airs, one of which returned earlier with an underslung pod with radar and infra red capability, both to train Air Warfare officers and offer a limited surveillance capability. NZ2350 has ben in country for some time, but I note Flight radar reports of another King air, VH-ZPU airborne around Ohakea yesterday/today. This rego traces back to NZ2352, which I am now assuming has arrived home after having the pod mod completed. Any thoughts, details, dates, etc as i am wanting to update ADF Serials NZ page. I see the owner of VH-ZPU is the ANZ Bank! There's been so little official news of these 2 King Airs supposedly being setup for maritime work... however sounds like that may finally actually be a reality!?! I must admit these two will be a clayton's solution to the Enhanced Maritime Awareness Capability but then nothing would surprise me! With 42sqn also tasked with MEPT & AWOT & running the odd VIP around they won't be able to provide oncall maritime 'awareness' 24x7, be it SAR or fisheries patrol. They'll be doing such under training which means you won't necessarily have a crew that are highly skilled at maritime work either. I actually don't have a problem with the King Air as a platform for this role...but it needs to be with aircraft & crew that have this role as their primary tasking and ideally I would say a 3rd one with the 'pod mods' would therefore be warranted. Leasing 2-3 more would be fairly easy to justify, and afford! How a bigger leased KA350 fleet then got split between 42sqn & 5sqn (if at all) could then be worked out relatively easily enough... god knows 5sqn could probably do with a few more flyable aircraft! Given that UAVs are being talked about post 2030 then using leased KA350 thru till around that time would make a lot of sense, and suit post-COVID budgets better than buying something new that may only be used for 8-10 years or so. As far as I'm aware the 2 KA350 with 'pod mods' are not being specifically bandied about as the initial answer to Enhanced Maritime Awareness Capability, but maybe others have more intimate knowledge they may be able to allude to.
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Post by saratoga on Apr 19, 2020 17:26:26 GMT 12
I see this aircraft was doing an out west(Tasman over sea) flight from OH today, seems to be a B300, not a 350. mixed fleet? really?
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Post by camtech on Apr 19, 2020 18:11:42 GMT 12
Yes, I note the B330/B350 issue, but they are all the same model - B350
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Post by saratoga on Apr 20, 2020 15:59:36 GMT 12
Check out VHZPU today, hes doing wheelies off the Patea coast. Or his rudder is stuck.
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Post by Damon on Apr 26, 2020 10:58:20 GMT 12
On normal operations the P-3 is flown at 1000' or lower to take pictures or 'Eyeball' targets such as vessels or persons in life rafts. Will the new technology on the P-8 lesson the need for the aircraft to be flown at 1000' in the future ?
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madmark
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 78
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Post by madmark on Apr 27, 2020 9:48:40 GMT 12
The P-8 can be flown as low as the P-3 and also has the HD version of the MX-20 (the P-3K2 has an older non HD MX-20) so it should be able to produce better imagery than the P-3.
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Post by ErrolC on May 12, 2020 19:03:40 GMT 12
A milestone for the Aircrew Training Capability project, the last of the four KA350 aircraft has now been equipped with radar and electro-optical systems. Great outcome for NZ as we now have the ability train our Air Warfare Officers at home. Thanks Marops NZ & @hawkerpacific
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Post by 30sqnatc on May 12, 2020 20:33:43 GMT 12
Gee not much ground clearance under there. Is the bump retractable?
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