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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 15, 2018 14:11:18 GMT 12
No-one is implying this was a existing society "destroyed" by Maori though. We don't know anything about it. Maori don't know anything about it. The people who still claim to have descended from those who were here before Maori don't know anything about it.
Hell, it could easily have been built by early Polynesians, they built stone structures on Rapanui and other places. Or it could have been built by 19th century saw millers as someone suggests. But we'll never know till they allow an indepth investigation and dig, rather than send some DOC or regional council geologist to have a squiz...
Just because a couple of racist nerks on the internet might embrace the possibilities and add their own spin does not mean people with a genuine interest in history and a curiosity should not be allowed to find out more about what it really is. And they should not be all profiled as (potentially) racist, that is stereotyping of the wort kind.
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Post by saratoga on Sept 15, 2018 14:22:18 GMT 12
Its a myth that there are no straight lines in nature,crystal structure alone confirms the presence of such.
Cooling volcanic rocks,ie basalts often fracture in seemingly even spacing.
I like the 'alternative reality' aspect of the story but believe it to be natural formation.Even the recent upheaval in Kaikoura showed how straight and even a fracture can be.
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Post by ErrolC on Sept 15, 2018 14:58:23 GMT 12
No-one is implying this was a existing society "destroyed" by Maori though. We don't know anything about it. Maori don't know anything about it. The people who still claim to have descended from those who were here before Maori don't know anything about it. Hell, it could easily have been built by early Polynesians, they built stone structures on Rapanui and other places. Or it could have been built by 19th century saw millers as someone suggests. But we'll never know till they allow an indepth investigation and dig, rather than send some DOC or regional council geologist to have a squiz... Just because a couple of racist nerks on the internet might embrace the possibilities and add their own spin does not mean people with a genuine interest in history and a curiosity should not be allowed to find out more about what it really is. And they should not be all profiled as (potentially) racist, that is stereotyping of the wort kind. Please don't mis-state what anyone here has said. And I refuse to accept that saying that some people will mis-use ideas is stereotyping of the worst sort. Stereotyping of the worst sort gets the victims of it killed.
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Post by mumbles on Sept 15, 2018 17:59:03 GMT 12
No-one is implying this was a existing society "destroyed" by Maori though. We don't know anything about it. Maori don't know anything about it. The people who still claim to have descended from those who were here before Maori don't know anything about it. Hell, it could easily have been built by early Polynesians, they built stone structures on Rapanui and other places. Or it could have been built by 19th century saw millers as someone suggests. But we'll never know till they allow an indepth investigation and dig, rather than send some DOC or regional council geologist to have a squiz... It wasn't built by anyone, and who is this mysterious "they". Just because a couple of racist nerks on the internet might embrace the possibilities and add their own spin does not mean people with a genuine interest in history and a curiosity should not be allowed to find out more about what it really is. And they should not be all profiled as (potentially) racist, that is stereotyping of the wort kind. I wasn't profiling anyone as racist, merely stating a fact. This pseudoscience nonsense of pre-maori occupation of NZ is not supported by any credible or irrefutable evidence, but is used by some groups and people to devalue maori occupation and accordingly their treaty rights and claims.
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Post by FlyingKiwi on Sept 15, 2018 19:28:55 GMT 12
There are similar things elsewhere in the world - there's a big hill which is a relatively neat pyramid shape in Croatia which has also been claimed to be a man-made structure, and also thoroughly debunked. The idea that an advanced society would build one or two colossal stone structures which would presumably have required an enormous amount of engineering works, and leave no other trace of their existence whatsoever is pretty farfetched. Maybe it was built by the Chinese?
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Post by corporalpilot52 on Apr 4, 2019 9:10:05 GMT 12
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Post by Bruce on Apr 4, 2019 9:42:53 GMT 12
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Post by FlyingKiwi on Apr 4, 2019 19:29:55 GMT 12
Whenever I see a news story that refers to "the internet" as a collective group of people, I tend to read it as "people of limited intelligence". Sorry but it has to be said.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Apr 4, 2019 20:49:58 GMT 12
Very true Leo!
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Post by Dave Homewood on May 30, 2021 22:36:40 GMT 12
So what does everyone here think about the recent releases of videos from the US Navy with what the Navy admits that have no idea what they're seeing? Here is the latest one:
I have watched a few interviews with Commander David Fraver, and the recent 60 Minutes show, and some other stuff about this. I used to think most of these sorts of claims was bunkum, but now I am really keeping a more open mind about it all. Something's definitely going on. But what? Are these things from space? From under the sea? From beneath the earth's crust? From China or Russia? Or from the USAF who have been very tight lipped about it all whilst the US Navy has been open.
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Post by davidd on May 31, 2021 10:33:43 GMT 12
Don't see anything there that would convince me that these very grainy views of unidentified objects are anything other than vehicles created and controlled by homo sapiens. Call me a cynic. They just have not decided exactly what they are, and who controls them.
David D
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Post by Antonio on Jun 16, 2021 16:52:30 GMT 12
"Yet, if anything we see far less of UFOs, Loch Ness, Bigfoot and other phenomena which were more common in the 70s and 80s" !! Camera Shy !!!!!!!!!!! And the Yanks don't call them UFO's anymore - they are now UAP's
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 10, 2021 18:32:10 GMT 12
I had no idea that New Zealander, Marshal of the RAF Sir Arthur Coningham had vanished without trace in the Bermuda Triangle. I just read it in this article about another Kiwi pilot whose aircraft vanished in the same place! How many Kiwis have disappeared in the triangle, I wonder? AIRLINER MISSING
FLIGHT FROM BERMUDA
NEW ZEALAND PILOT ON BOARD NZPA—Copyright HAMILTON (Bermuda), Rec. 11 p.m. Jan. 17. The British South American Airways Tudor airliner, Star Ariel, carrying 20 persons, is missing to-day on the 1000-mile flight from Bermuda to Kingston (Jamaica). Airline officials in London reported that the Star Ariel carried 22 passengers and a crew of seven when it left on its regular flight from London to Kingston. It is presumed that seven of the passengers disembarked at Hamilton. The pilot is the 31-year-old New Zealander, Captain John McPhee, of Christchurch, who served with the RNZAF during the war. Macdill Field air base, in Florida, reported picking up a message from the ship Santa Inez, which said it heard distress signals to-day on the emergency frequency while about 150 miles north of Puerto Rico. The ship’s radio operator said it was impossible to tell from what direction the signal was coming. An intensive air search has been organised. Almost exactly a year ago the British South American Airways Tudor IV, Star Tiger, disappeared between the Azores and Bermuda with 31 people, including Marshal of the Royal Air Force Sir Arthur Coningham. No trace of it was ever found. All Tudor IV aircraft were then grounded for reliability trials, and did not return to the Bermuda run for 11 weeks. Twelve days ago three people were killed when the airline’s Star Venture crashed and burned in Brazil. OTAGO DAILY TIMES, 19 JANUARY 1949
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Post by The Red Baron on Oct 10, 2021 20:50:46 GMT 12
British South American Airways Cheif Pilots view on the Tudor...."The Tudor was built like a battleship. It was noisy, I had no confidence in its engines and its systems were hopeless. The Americans were fifty years ahead of us in systems engineering. All the hydraulics, the air conditioning equipment and the recircling [sic] fans were crammed together underneath the floor without any thought. There were fuel-burning heaters that would never work; we had the floorboards up in flight again and again."
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 10, 2021 22:05:06 GMT 12
Yes I did suspect it was much more likely to be the aircraft design than any weird spooky anomaly concerning the sea there.
That famous case of the five Grumman Avengers that vanished there - made famous by the Close Encounters film - is easily explained. In fact it was one of many similar cases of whole flights of Avengers vanishing on transits over the sea, both in the USA and in the Pacific. The thing is the RNZAF and Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm Avengers had a huge advantage over the US Navy ones.
The RNZAF Avengers were crewed by a Pilot, a Navigator, and a Wireless Operator-Air Gunner.
The Fleet Air Arm Avengers were crewed by a Pilot, an Observer, and a Telegraphist-Air Gunner.
The US Navy Avengers were crewed by a Pilot, a Wireless Operator, and an Air Gunner.
(in fact some of the RNZAF Navigators were fully trained as Observers, a trade that saw them trained as Navigators, Wireless Operators, Air Gunners and Bomb Aimers. Observers were trained by the RNZAF till 1942 when they sped up training by specialising aircrew in one trade only).
So you see the difference. The US Navy did not have a trained navigator onboard, and so navigation was done by the pilot. In the case of the flight of five Avengers there was one experienced pilot leading and all the rest of the flight were students. They were following in formation so the navigation was being done by one man. If something was off with his navigation or there was some problem with his compass, and the student pilots either never realised as they were focused on keeping formation or perhaps were too afraid to question the leader due to the strict Navy discipline in training, they all followed him to their deaths. This same situation happened several times. I am not sure how this ever became a mystery if people had just checked the facts. In the Pacific they had so many flights of Avengers get lost they asked the RNZAF Hudson crews to start escorting them on raids.
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Post by FlyingKiwi on Oct 11, 2021 17:58:39 GMT 12
Many of the disappearances attributed to the "Bermuda Triangle" didn't actually take place within the area it's generally considered to encompass, and many of the more famous events were heavily embellished subsequently. In the case of the Avenger flight it was quite some time after their disappearance that a writer twisted the radio messages about compass problems and being lost into implications of some sort of supernatural activity. But it does make for interesting reading nonetheless, and at the very least a good human factors case study.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 1, 2022 18:26:11 GMT 12
Former pilot, now priest, describes 1950 U.F.O. sighting
A Dominican priest and former N.A.C. pilot has written to “The Press” about a personal experience he had with a U.F.O. over the Kaikouras about 20 years ago.
The Rev. Peter Durning, at present chaplain to the University of New England at Armidale, New South Wales, was a transport pilot in the Royal New Zealand Air Force during World War 11 before joining Union Airways, which was subsequently taken over by the New Zealand Government and became the National Airways Corporation.
He was a pilot for 12 years before he left to become a priest; and in all the Pacific flying he did he never saw, nor has he seen since, the sight which he describes in his letter, which he wrote from Timaru this week, where he is on holiday with his family.
"About 1950, I was piloting the N.A.C. night flight! from Wellington to Christchurch. Nearing Kaikoura, I observed the strangest phenomenon I have ever seen in the night sky. A large globe of light quite close in front and above me was descending rather slowly from a cloudless sky,” Father Durning wrote.
“I thought it might have been some new form of weather balloon but as I watched it disintegrated before my eyes like the incandescent mantle of a gas lamp. Shreds of light slowly spilled downwards detaching themselves from the parent body of light. In a few seconds the pageant had disappeared, leaving not a visible trace behind.
“I was most interested in Sir Bernard Lovell’s suggestion that cosmic debris entering the Earth’s atmosphere might be the explanation of the phenomena, recently observed and photographed in the night sky off the Kaikoura coast. The slowness of the descent of the large globe of light that I saw and its spluttering extinction after its symmetry was broken seems to me a different phenomenon from the dazzling speed of a racing meteorite - followed by dramatic darkness — the appearance of a falling star.
“The globe of light I saw was so close and gentle in its descent that had I not seen its disintegration I might have wondered whether my U.F.O. housed an intelligence,” said Father Durning.
Yesterday, Father Durning said that his memory of the incident was stimulated by the television film of the U.F.O.s in the Kaikoura area this week. He said that with all the different explanations being offered — such as car lights, Japanese fishing boats, mutton birds' undersides — he might as well make his own-suggestion.
“Perhaps there are certain areas of the world where these sorts of phenomena occur,” he said, recalling that a team of British experts came to New Zealand after World War II to study the effects of the north-westerly wind on radar.
“They discovered that the effects on radar were magnified in the certain type of atmosphere created by north-west winds,” he said. “This is only an example. Whether the Kaikouras are a sort of privileged area for this sort of phenomenon I don’t know,” Father Durning said.
The Press, 6 January 1979.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 4, 2023 0:28:29 GMT 12
STRANGE FOOTPRINTS
WEIRD IMPRESSIONS IN SNOW
HUNT IN TAIHAPE DISTRICT
Strange footprints in the snow in rugged country in the Mokai district, on the lower slopes of the Ruahine Ranges about 20 miles from Taihape, are puzzling experienced hunters who have been familiar with the wild life of the area for many years. The footprints were followed fur half a mile into the bush. Arrangement*; have been made for ail extensive hunt over a wide area this week-end in an endeavour to identify the animal responsible for the spoor. Mr Hamill, who has just returned to Hamilton from Taihape, commented on the interest that had been created by the footprints. The marks were described to him as being about a foot long, with a toe about four inches long projecting from one side and another toe six inches long on the other side.
The impressions were so clear in about a foot of snow that experienced men, including Mr J. Missen, who has had 20 years of experience of hunting in the district, were able to study them minutely. Mr Missen was so intrigued that he brought other men to verify the facts. All were completely mystified and agreed to pursue the hunt into the bush this week-end. The possibilities of the tracks being made by any known animal in the district were discussed and eliminated. Those who had not semi the spoor suggested deer, but study of the marks eliminated that idea. It was considered that if the marks were made by any known animal, that animal must, have been possessed of an extraordinary abnormality. The Mokai district is at the headwaters of the Rangitikei River. Much of it is extremely precipitous country that, has never been thoroughly explored.
WAIKATO TIMES, 17 JUNE 1939
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 4, 2023 0:30:22 GMT 12
“SNOWMAN” IN RUAHINE RANGES?
Abnormal footprints about one foot long and with curiously long toes, found in the Ruahine Ranges by a party of hunters, have awakened the curiosity of most people in the Dominion as they believed there was little new to learn about this country. The fact that the tracks were eliminated as belonging to any known animal, unless it was extraordinarily deformed, and that they were discovered in a region which has never been properly explored, has supplemented the weather as a topic of popular conversation.
Is it possible that New Zealand has a counterpart of the mysterious “snow-man” of the Himalayas? According to the natives, the Himalayas are inhabited by a fearsome monster which some, who claim to have seen it, describe as of human form but gigantic in size. Its footsteps have been seen by explorers, who, however, in their many assaults on Mount Everest, have failed to solve the mystery. New Zealand’s mystery perhaps provides a link with far-off India and Tibet.
NORTHERN ADVOCATE, 1 JULY 1939
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Post by Dave Homewood on Mar 4, 2023 0:32:59 GMT 12
“THE DEVIL'S HOOFMARKS.”
MYSTERIOUS TRACKS IN SNOW
Are there upon the earth animals and monsters not known to man? The question is asked in the Sunday Express, London, by George Edinger, but they will be found all the more interesting in view of the discovery on the Ruahine Ranges this winter of certain mysterious tracks. Edinger adds that the sea serpent has gone on appearing in unexpected places at unexpected times for the past five centuries. Astonishing creatures, he says, persist in rising out of deep waters anywhere from Lake Titicaca to Loch Ness.
When Sir James Ross landed at Kerguelen, on his Antarctic voyage in 1840, he was astonished to find “the singular footsteps of a pony or ass . . . in the recently fallen snow,” which he lost on reaching a large space of rocky ground. As there was no such animal on the island he had to conclude that “the animal has been cast on shore from some wrecked vessel.”
And there was a very similar case, the clearest and least accountable of all these appearances, that puzzled and frightened the inhabitants of South Devon on the morning of February 8, 1855. There was a heavy snowfall the night before; and in the morning the country over a hundred miles between Exmouth and Teignmouth was found unaccountably pock-marked by the winding tracks of a cleft hoof which came out of and finally went back into the sea.
“Considerable sensation was evoked in the towns of Topsham, Lympstone, Exmouth, Teignmouth, and Dawlish by the discovery of so vast: a number of foot-tracks of this strange and mysterious description.”
For they were on the tops of houses, and the rims of walls. They were in gardens and courtyards, enclosed behind high fences and palings; they were up on hayricks, and they crossed the estuary of the Exe River where it is two miles wide.
They never displaced the snow an either side. Nor was the even distance between the cloven footmarks altered by an inch. No animal could have travelled over such a stretch of country in one night. No creature known leaves a single line of footmarks like these behind it.
So people "dreaded to go out after sunset or venture half a mile into lanes or byways under the conviction that this was the devil’s walk, and it was wicked to trifle with such manifest proof of the great enemy’s immediate presence.”
Naturally there were attempted explanations. People who had never seen the footprints tried to find some resemblance to those of otters, and rats, hares, polecats, and swans. A clergyman in his Sunday sermon suggested the possibility of the tracks being those of a kangaroo.
“But this,” objected a contemporary newspaper account, “could hardly have been the case, as they were found on both sides of the River Exe.” It could also hardly have been the case as the kangaroo is not a native of South Devon and no such beast was found to be missing from a zoo, a circus, or a menagerie, if, indeed, there was one in the neighbourhood.
Richard Owen, a contemporary naturalist with a big reputation, examined some drawings of the hoof marks that were sent to him, and pronounced them the hind foot of a badger. He explained:— “That one and the same animal should have gone over a hundred miles of a most devious and irregular route in one night is as improbable as that one badger only should have been awake and hungry out of the number concealed in the hundred miles.”
To account for the single line, he worked out an ingenious theory showing how a badger’s footprints “of the fore and hind foot are commonly more or less blended together, producing the appearance of a single line of footsteps.”
The thoroughness of Owen’s examination and the weight of his name persuaded most people that this really was a badger. But those who saw the marks were anything but convinced.
Some people thought that the effect of the atmosphere on the snow might have produced the hoofmarks and played a trick with the familiar footprint of some beast —or, since they were on roofs, more probably some bird —so as to make it look strange and fearsome.
Yet, as somebody pointed out at the time, “how could it be possible for the atmosphere to affect one impression and not another?” On the morning the tracks were found the snow was covered by the footmarks of cats, dogs, rabbits, birds, and men. None of them had been distorted by the atmosphere, and none of them like these “devil’s hoof marks,” was so clearly impressed on the snow that the raising in the centre in each foot could be made out.
This could not have been the work of birds, because “no bird’s foot leaves the impression of a hoof,” nor, as a contemporary explained, would birds “even if they bad donkey’s feet,” confine themselves to a direct line as they hop here and there.
Luckily for the nerves of people in this part of England the marks did not appear again, and all trace of them vanished with the melting of the snow. By then the footprints in different parts of the country had been carefully compared, together with the spaces between them, which, in each case, measured eight inches and a quarter.
Those tracings and measurements were sent to the Zoological Gardens in London, and also to the British Museum, but “the universal reply was that they were utterly unable to form any conjecture on the subject, however correctly the impressions had been copied.”
Manawatu Herald dated 6th of November 1939
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