|
|
Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Nov 13, 2014 19:15:28 GMT 12
Hey, our valuation just arrived - you guys stay out of Devonport and keep your theories and rumours to yourselves!! - A Very Concerned Resident. A brief period of contentment - until the rates assessment arrives. Ah, the joys of living in the provinces where housing costs are cheap (as are local body rates) and everything (including work) is within walking distance. And many people still get to keep their big-city jobs if they live in the “right” province.... • Swept from Masterton to Wellington: The cost of commuting....plus, in that “right” province is the biggest airworthy collection of WWI aeroplanes in the world, as well as a couple of airworthy ex-RNZAF WWII fighter planes. Eat your hearts out, Aucklanders. |
|
|
|
Post by Peter Lewis on Nov 13, 2014 21:07:05 GMT 12
And many people still get to keep their big-city jobs if they live in the “right” province.... . . . and can have their commuting service subsidized by all NZ taxpayers Eat your hearts out, Aucklanders. . . . who have their commuting service subsidized by just the Auckland ratepayers. |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Nov 13, 2014 22:00:45 GMT 12
I think this thread has strayed too far off topic. Bring it back to the North Head mysteries please.
|
|
|
|
Post by grgrimmer on Nov 23, 2014 20:08:45 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by TS on Nov 23, 2014 21:23:13 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by grgrimmer on Nov 24, 2014 9:53:00 GMT 12
Thanks for this relevation nz5218. You are only one of many people who have the same or a similar story. You would be correct in your assumption. The authorities have constantly refused Martin to use Ground Penetrating Radar there in that spot and if you look back at the old records when the army was asked to give John Earnshaw (Movie Producer) every available assistance to find these missing tunnels, they did not check this wall. In the research I was involved with a couple of years ago, it got to the point where it became apparent that if one wanted to find a tunnel, all you had to do was look where the Army "did not" look, although on talking to a couple of the army personnel involved in this, the minute they smelt naphtha (like moth-balls) coming out of the holes they had drilled, they were out of there - and no more exploration was continued in those spots. It is unknown whether this naphtha smell came from decaying ammunition or from the coal tar used for sealing the tunnel (or covered way) ceilings to water proof them, but I guess if you were the person drilling the holes, you wouldn't want to hang around and find out! It was easier to say there was no evidence of a tunnel being there - as if you did, you might be the person allocated to find out for sure by digging.... It appears that the Parks Board later sealed up many of the tunnels and denied they were there as a way of avoiding curious people. If you read Martin's further update on this link: tunnelvision.net.nz/index.php/whats-happening he expresses his objectives, and I think you would have to agree that he is intending to proceed with all due diligence and caution. What started off for Martin as a hunt for a couple of rare aircraft has now turned into nightmare for Martin as he now has the weight of protecting possibly thousands of lives by ensuring this possible impending catastrophe does not happen. Ignoring the situation bought about by many mistakes in the past is not an option.... and when you consider that Martin has spent thousands of his own money (GPR is not cheap) trying to get the Authorities to face up to their own responsibilities, you then have to respect the calibre of the man. Get along side him... don't ignorantly ridicule him with uninformed unfair comments (and I don't mean you nz5218) If any more of you readers have stories like nz5218 to tell, please post them here. It would be great to hear them! My two cents worth for the day.... Gavin |
|
|
|
Post by pjw4118 on Nov 26, 2014 17:52:27 GMT 12
Hi there, I love legends , myths and mysteries like everyone else , so forget about radar , it shows voids , borrow a bomb sniffer from the airport and check the seepages , drains and tunnel faces. Explosives have very distinctive signature decay products and the old ones, like you would expect in North Head, would be obvious. Try hiding nitro glycerine in your back pocket when you next go through the airport.
Peter if your rate rises are too much set off some tri ammonium iodide to protest, the purple cloud is magic.
|
|
|
|
Post by grgrimmer on Nov 27, 2014 18:09:49 GMT 12
Thanks pjw4118 for the thought. I wonder if the bomb sniffers can differentiate between the smell of coal tar and nitro-glycerine? It would be interesting to find out. I wonder what would happen if I had a couple of moth balls in my back pocket next time I go through customs?... Could be interesting, but I guess not pleasant! I doubt Customs would see the funny side of it.
I recently read somewhere that they have opened up to the public the existing summit battery tunnels, although it is only in the form of having to book in on a guided tour. I've been through those tunnels with Martin (with approval from DOC) and they absolutely reek of napthalene - I believe ever since the Army drilled exploratory holes looking for the tunnels (by memory in the 80's). I was very surprised to see that they have taken this move...
As time permits, I am slowly updating my website with a archival photo history showing several tunnel entrances - some in this summit area - entrances that are not there today. One leads out directly between the two big gun emplacements, and by using a Google Earth overlay, I can demonstrate exactly which part of the existing tunnel complex this now 'hidden' tunnel comes from. As said previously, I have been into the underground room in this area and there is absolutely no sign of where this tunnel once connected to, but I will explain my conclusions on this when I do the article. Keep an eye out for it as you'll be surprised!
|
|
|
|
Post by saratoga on Nov 28, 2014 16:30:03 GMT 12
I'd recommend against carrying mothballs in your pockets.They release Napthalene, highly flammable and probably your balls would be in more danger than a moths!
|
|
|
|
Post by grgrimmer on Dec 12, 2014 11:24:52 GMT 12
Hi everyone, I've just updated my website (now a total of 44 pages on the subject) using many old photographs showing the existence of tunnel entrances on North Head. These entrances have now disappeared mainly due to a lot of the hill being bulldozed over the years. Have a read and tell me if you still believe the "Official Version" claiming there are no hidden tunnels there! One thing I've learnt over the years is to never believe everything we are 'spoon-fed'... Check it out for yourself first and form your own opinion. It may appear that I'm pushing my own website here, but I assure you I am not - I'm pushing the message. Get the message out there by telling as many people as possible... Martin Butler needs all the help he can get. www.findlostaircraft.co.nz/north%20head%20boeings.htm and don't forget to keep an eye on Martin's site as he is updating it when he can. He's on International flights so struggles to find time. www.tunnelvision.net.nz |
|
|
|
Post by harrysone on Dec 15, 2014 16:25:16 GMT 12
Very impressive website, though I'm afraid the 'camouflage' applied to the Torpedo Bay tunnel entrance can't be factual as the cliff face is the real McCoy, I know because we have mapped that outcrop in detail for work (I'm an engineering geologist by profession), its a well welded basaltic lapilli tuff. I can understand, to the uninitiated this stuff can resemble concrete but its quite natural. Its formed when finer air-fall volcanics such as ash & scoria land on the ground in sufficient quantities and still hot enough that it will weld together in-situ.
|
|
|
|
Post by ZacYates on Dec 17, 2014 15:54:52 GMT 12
Harry, clearly you're working for "them" and saying what "they" want disseminated to an ignorant and gullible populace.  I would love to see the North Head Tunnels explored and the various theories sorted once and for all. Likewise excavation for the Burmese Spitfires and a non-US Government manned lunar mission to (near) the Apollo sites - starve the conspiracy theorists, and to fix in place the historical record one way or the other. |
|
|
|
Post by komata on Dec 18, 2014 5:06:28 GMT 12
Harry
Does the tuff material 'air dry' and gain strength as a result, and if it does, would the resulting strength be sufficient to be self-supporting if a drive measuring (say) 10ft x 8 ft was put into it? Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by harrysone on Dec 18, 2014 15:13:49 GMT 12
Most of the existing (unlined) tunnels have been excavated through tuff. The material is actually a weak rock typically 1-5MPa strength. The problem is of course that the degree of welding (cementation) can be quite variable over short distances, the stuff can grade from solid rock to layers of ash/gravel. There are problems currently associated with one of the old naval buildings excavated into the cliffs in Torpedo Bay, the roof of the excavation has been slabbing off on top of the building. Slabbing (bits falling off due to stress relief) would be an ongoing problem associated with any excavation into the rock.
|
|
|
|
Post by saratoga on Dec 18, 2014 20:20:42 GMT 12
So the missing Boeings and all that dangerous ammunition could be crushed or covered with 'slabbing'.right ,next conspiracy.....
|
|
|
|
Post by grgrimmer on Dec 19, 2014 11:47:01 GMT 12
Very impressive website, though I'm afraid the 'camouflage' applied to the Torpedo Bay tunnel entrance can't be factual as the cliff face is the real McCoy, I know because we have mapped that outcrop in detail for work (I'm an engineering geologist by profession), its a well welded basaltic lapilli tuff. I can understand, to the uninitiated this stuff can resemble concrete but its quite natural. Its formed when finer air-fall volcanics such as ash & scoria land on the ground in sufficient quantities and still hot enough that it will weld together in-situ. Hi Harrysone, I appreciate your input. I apologise in taking so long to reply to your post as I wanted to make the most of your expertise. I have spent several days researching material - and from that attempting to portray graphically what I am trying to say, but this unfortunately is quite a large subject... too large for this blog site (I think?). Rather than use up valuable space on this site, I have posted my reply on my own site as an update for all those interested. www.findlostaircraft.co.nz/north%20head%2045.htmlAt the conclusion of this article on my site, I have asked you a question that I will repeat here, but I ask you to please read my article (and hence my conclusions) first. "In your expert opinion, are you suggesting that a camouflage expert (that was reported as specifically coming to NZ contracted for the job) who has unlimited resources and 2 ½ years to complete it, would not have been able to produce the results such as seen in the cliff face at Torpedo Bay? I look forward to your reply." Also, do you happen to have a report of this detailed mapping that you speak of? I would be most interested to see it - if you can provide me with a copy? Many regards, Gavin |
|
|
|
Post by Dave Homewood on Jan 13, 2015 1:16:44 GMT 12
|
|
|
|
Post by grgrimmer on Jan 19, 2015 18:35:12 GMT 12
Check out this link: www.facebook.com/ReopenDevonportTunnels/photos/a.363002970481665.1073741825.331282940320335/679066732208619/?type=1&theaterThis is truly unbelievable! It shows a building being built in Torpedo Bay right in front of the cliff face where all the evidence points to where there was once a large drive-in tunnel, and I really do wonder if they are purposely doing this to stop anyone ever being able to prove it! The one thing that really disturbs me is how they got permission to build this building on what is surely a historic site, and by doing so has stuffed the site up for future generations! They wouldn't get away with it anywhere else in NZ, so what gives? I listened to the podcast link you posted above Dave (many thanks for posting it), and I think they are actually talking about this new building, even though I was under the belief that they were talking about one of the existing historic buildings back behind the museum. Anyway, today I updated my website with a further seven pages, and this will probably be the last update that I will do on the subject on North Head as I feel that I have achieved what I set out to do... prove there were a lot more tunnels on North Head than what we have been led to believe. If what I have already shown on my site (and what Martin has on his site) does not convince you, then you will never be convinced... and I will be just wasting my time. It's a fascinating hill, full of mysteries, and I have thoroughly enjoyed myself researching it. The mysteries just go on and on. The more you look, the more you discover! Anyway, my update... www.findlostaircraft.co.nz/north%20head%2049.html |
|
|
|
Post by scrooge on Jan 19, 2015 19:30:08 GMT 12
Thanks guys, interesting thread and discussion. While I personally doubt that there are boxed or stored aircraft in the tunnels, I'm reasonably confident there are more tunnels then are 'known' and they would be worth finding and exploring.
|
|
|
|
Post by grgrimmer on Aug 28, 2015 17:30:12 GMT 12
|
|
