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Post by smithy on Sept 26, 2017 20:09:40 GMT 12
Well further information has arrived. Another member has identified 5 Tempests used by 349 and not one of them was used by 485. It really is starting to look for certain that both units had their own Tempest airframes to work on converting with which in turn seems to beg the question then why wouldn't they be marked with their own unit codes?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 26, 2017 20:26:59 GMT 12
Adding that to the fact that No. 33 Squadron's Tempests were definitely marked in their codes while they were at Predannack, I reckon odds are there must have been OU- coded Tempests and Typhoons.
What we really need is the records of the RAF Predannack Paint Shop. I dear say they will no longer exist!
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Post by smithy on Sept 26, 2017 20:59:15 GMT 12
Probably long gone Dave but then again the RAF could be quite pedantic regarding records and regulations! If you are a betting man I reckon the odds have shortened significantly for OU coded Tempests and Tiffies
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 26, 2017 21:18:29 GMT 12
Any news on the list of pilots on the Squadron at the time?
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Post by smithy on Sept 26, 2017 21:41:50 GMT 12
I'll have to cross check with Sortehaug/Listemann's book and Wells's but in the meantime the airmen from the photo at Predannack is a good start.
They are:
Sgt W.A. Hoskins Sgt M.J.E. Lind F/O A. Roberts P/O C.T. Wilton F/O M.C. Mayston P/O R.M Clarke P/O M.A. Collett F/O J. Darragh W/O H.M. Esdaile F/O D.L. Iggo P/O J.N. King F/L O.L. Hardy S/L K.J. Macdonald F/L S.F. Browne F/L L.M. Ralph F/O E. Te K. Bennett P/O G. Henderson P/O G.C. Earle Sgt O.O. Hunter Sgt A.J. Greer Sgt P.J Donnelly Sgt P.T. Humphrey
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 26, 2017 22:14:01 GMT 12
Cool, thanks. From that list: - see my PM to you regarding Murray Lind - I think Maurice Mayston is still alive isn't he? - I interviewed Russell Clarke years ago, i think I copied his logbook too, will have to find it - Max Collett is still alive - Owen Hardy is still alive in the UK - I have a copy of Keith Macdonald's logbook and wrote the details from that in the previous thread
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Post by Dave Homewood on Sept 27, 2017 1:04:47 GMT 12
Interestingly in June 1945 whilst still commander of No. 485 (NZ) Squadron, S/Ldr Keith Macdonald DFC flew: - and Anson X on the ist of June (Brussells to Drop 105) - a Tempest V NV680 on the 7th of June (Air Test) - his Spitfire XVIe OU-T on the 10th, 11th, 12th, 18th and 19th of June - an ME108 on the 24th of June - Auster BH420 on the 30th of June - and a FW190 on the 30th of June
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Post by smithy on Sept 27, 2017 6:56:31 GMT 12
You see a lot of sightseeing and "joy" flights after the cessation of hostilities with units in Germany, Denmark, etc. And of course the chance to have a crack in what the enemy was flying against you!
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Post by smithy on Sept 28, 2017 7:55:30 GMT 12
I received an excellent reply from Typhoon and Tempest expert Chris Thomas over at the 12 O'Clock High Forum which can be read here: forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=49294Chris also very kindly gave some further information in a PM on another website we are members on and which he said would be fine to share here: "I'd love to help but regret to say I've seen neither photos nor their pilots' logs. I have trawled through 349, 485 and Predannack ORBs (none of which mention codes) and all the Tempest record cards (7 for 485 plus another which I think is an error, and 5 for 349). I could give you the arrival and departure dates for all these if required but to sum up, the Tempests all arrived at Predannack between 1 and 27 February but were "taken away" from the squadrons on 3 March. As 6 of 485's aircraft arrived (or perhaps more accurately, were taken on charge) on 27 February they did not have long to decorate them. 349 acquired theirs on 24 February. 349's all went to 33 or 222 who had just finished their conversion. 485's went to the same to units plus 274 and one to an OTU. Both units struggled on with a small number of 84 GSU Typhoons on loan, some of which, if not all, were FR.IBs." So the long and short of it? Jury is out on whether the Tempests would have been coded due to the short time they were operated, but I'm fairly certain RAF regs at this point of the war still stipulated that operational, training and conversion units had to be coded for flying. One other thing Chris said was that he was surprised to hear from the other replies that the 349 Sqn Tempests were listed with individual codes so I suppose if 349 had found time to code their ones in some fashion then the possibility exists that 485 had down the same - and lets face it life on RAF Predannack wasn't exactly hectic. But we really are jumping the gun here, we really need some photographic evidence or logbook details to clarify this. Cheers, Tim
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 22, 2017 14:16:18 GMT 12
OK, catching up with some of the research I have been doing behind the scenes here. First of all an update to Tim's list of pilots who flew with No. 485 (NZ) Squadron at Predannack giving more details: (home towns mentioned are their towns at the time in 1945 from Dave Iggo's version of the group photo, seen below, as sent bu Dave's daughter Sue) S/L Keith James Macdonald DFC NZ40981 (of Auckland) F/L Stanley Franklin Browne DFC* NZ411853 (known as Stan, or Flower) F/L Owen Leslie Hardy DFC* NZ411399 F/L Lloyd Mackay Ralph DFC NZ401779 F/O Edward Te Keu Bennett mid NZ411359 (known as Ted, the only Maori on the squadron at that time, of Hastings) F/O James Darragh NZ422074 (known as Jim, of Wellington) F/O David L. Iggo F/O Maurice Colgan Mayston mid NZ422304 (known as Red, of Nelson) F/O Al Roberts (of Christchurch) P/O Russell Murray Clarke DFC NZ42190 (of Taupiri) P/O Maxwell Amner Collett mid NZ422260 P/O G.C. Earle (of Auckland) P/O G. Henderson P/O James Norby King NZ413089 P/O C. Trevor Wilton (known as Trev, of Masterton) W/O H.M. Esdaile Sgt Patrick J. Donnelly (known as Pat, of New Plymouth) Sgt Murray John Charles Lind NZ428129 (of Rongotea) Sgt Ashley J. Greer (known as Ash, from Palmerston North) Sgt William A. Hoskins (known as Bill, from Palmerston North) Sgt P.T. Humphrey (of Rotorua) Sgt O.O. Hunter (of Christchurch, first name in signature looks like Ousten?) Additional names on the photo, looks like P Fleet (of Te Puke)? And W. Parker and L. Gordon (both of England - not sure if they were No. 485 (NZ) Squadron or on the station, perhaps as instructors)
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 22, 2017 14:18:57 GMT 12
Here is Dave Iggo's logbook for the time he spent at Predannack. He missed some of the time there as he was on his honeymoon, but as you'll see he did not fly much there: Again thanks to Sue for these scans. And here is another photo from Dave's collection taken at Predannack: "Photograph taken in front of the building the 485 lads lived in. Dave Iggo second from right, Ted Bennett behind him."
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 22, 2017 14:25:49 GMT 12
I sent through a list of questions to Sue which she put to her father, Dave Iggo, and she relayed his responses back to me. So here are the questions and the answers in yellow:
- Did the Tempests or Typhoons at Preddannack wear the OU- code letters while No. 485 (NZ) Squadron was flying them?
Dad's first response was " The markings on the outside??? Hell I don't know, I was on the inside !!!! " ya got to love him at nearly 98 years of age !!!!! He went on to say he really can not remember, but probably not, because there were simply not enough aircraft to equip a squadron.
- The evidence we have found so far is that very little flying was done in the Typhoons and even less in the Tempests during the time the squadron was at Predannack. Was this due to maintenance issues with the aircraft? Poor weather conditions? Or something else?
Little flying was done, due to the lack of aircraft. Also there was a lack of people available to service the aircraft.
- Were you sharing the same aeroplanes with the members of No. 349 Squadron who were also converting to the types there at Predannack at the same time? Or did your squadron have its own aircraft and the other squadron have a separate bunch just for themselves? Or did all the aircraft perhaps come from a station pool, and not belong to either squadron?
No sharing was done as far as he can remember. He has no recollection of the 349 Sqn.
- Were the squadron members happy to be converting to the Tempest? Or were you all disappointed to be leaving the Spitfires?
"Generally the Squadron were disappointed at leaving the Spitfires. They were not happy at converting to Tempests as it was well known that the Tempests were being used predominantly to attack V2 sites in Northern Germany which were very heavily defended."
- Was the Typhoon much different to fly from the Spitfire? Was it a big adjustment going from a Merlin to a Sabre engined fighter?
Yes it was different. It felt heavier. The Spitfire was more maneuverable at lower altitudes
- And when you got into the Tempest did they differ a lot in handling or feel from the Typhoon?
Very hazy memory on this one. He doesn't think so.
- Did the squadron suffer any mishaps, accidents or problems during the time at Predannack?
"Not that I know of."
- What were the circumstances as you remember it of when the decision was made to reverse the plan to convert the squadron to Tempests, and put you all back onto Spitfires.
Not answered
- Was the time at Predannack a happy time for the Squadron? Was it a good rest from operations? And was there much leisure undertaken? Was there a local pub near the station that you all haunted while in Cornwall?
"YES to all questions !!!" He can not remember the name of the Pub, but he does remember everyone "scampering off on leave". Dad went to London to be with his new wife for a few days.
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 22, 2017 14:29:15 GMT 12
And the latest email from Sue had these gems! "Hi Dave Found these 3 photographs of the Squadron returning from France en route to Cornwall. Number 3 is probably entitled "The relief of 485!!" Cheers Sue"
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Post by davidd on Oct 23, 2017 8:33:46 GMT 12
Wonderful stuff! Definitely looks like winter or early spring. David D
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 23, 2017 12:47:56 GMT 12
Yes the three photos in the last post I made of them in the trucks and having a comfort stop will be in February 1945.
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Post by suthg on Oct 23, 2017 20:55:43 GMT 12
Great reading! The Trevor Wilton would have been a cousin of my mother - all Wiltons from Masterton were related (parents moved there from Wellington, hence suburb of Wilton!).
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 24, 2017 0:31:06 GMT 12
Any chance you can track down his logbook through the family Graham? Dave Iggo's daughter Sue told me "Trevor Wilton died many years ago. Last known address was a farm in Rangitumau, near Masterton. Has a daughter Jane, and two sons. Whereabouts unknown."
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Post by noooby on Oct 28, 2017 2:42:21 GMT 12
Is there some way to add attachments to a post?
I have the history cards for the 6 Tempests that I requested from RAF Museum. NV922 (Issued to 485 for 1 week), NV762 (Issued to 485 for 1 week), NV756 (Issued to 485 for 1 week), NV701 (never offically issued to 485), NV682 (Issued to 485 for 1 week) and EJ882 (never officially issed to 485).
They're in pdf form and not the clearest, so converting to a pdf and posting them as images may make parts of them unreadale.
Can I email them to you Dave and you see what you can do with them?
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Post by Dave Homewood on Oct 28, 2017 8:37:27 GMT 12
Yes Graham, please email them to me and I will attempt to attach them.
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Post by suthg on Oct 28, 2017 14:52:33 GMT 12
Dave, I have been decoding pdf files to jpg's and editing the jpgs to make the files readable. I am happy to do this if I can help.
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